Microsoft Lumia sales nose dive selling only 2.3 million phones in 3 months

Everything Goes · 22-04-2016, 16:32

On the back of previous bad results for the final quarter of 2015 Lumia sales have gone into free fall. It sold 2.3 million Lumias over the past three months, which is a 73 percent drop from this time last year when they sold 8.6 million. Microsoft sold 4.5 million in the previous quarter of 2015 which was a 57% drop year on year itself.

Its hard to see Microsoft wanting to stay in the sector unless they want to continue it as a loss leader.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/04/21/microsoft-q1-2016/

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1374...t-three-months

jonmorris · 23-04-2016, 01:00

I don't think anyone is surprised.

If you're not into apps, it's a nice user interface. But people are into apps and BlackBerry had worked this out, switching to Android.

I think Microsoft can call it a day and has pretty much put everything it does on iOS and Android so is covered.

I've upgraded some of my Windows phones to 10 and it's all well and good except I feel that there's nothing I can do with them. No banking app, no Now TV app, no Amazon video, a buggy version of Tapatalk.. the list goes on.

Total waste of time for all but smartphone users who really aren't in the need of a smartphone.

barbeler · 23-04-2016, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Total waste of time for all but smartphone users who really aren't in the need of a smartphone.

I'm not really in need of a smart phone but I still think it's rubbish. Horrible keyboard with tiny keys that guarantee mistakes. Also a Querty layout, which is absolutely pointless when it's impossible to touch-type two handed. It's often quite an effort simply to answer a phone call, then there's the Bing button. Don't get me started on the Bing Button

On my 520 version the camera is absolutely pointless and the only good point is that you can't take selfies with it.

IvanIV · 23-04-2016, 06:02

They are very zen about it. For businesses and enthusiasts. Only it's becoming more and more difficult to stay enthusiastic. Only thing that is still keeping me there is that I dislike other phones more.

clm2071 · 23-04-2016, 06:27

I'm about to switch from my Lumia back to Android. I really like the WP interface but the app situation is just atrocious

Textmainiac · 24-04-2016, 08:19

I've been through all the phone OS's this year, including BB10, courtesy of free review samples (which have been returned.)

I think the quote that Windows Phone is good for people who don't need a smartphone is pretty apt; even though Android is a data-sucking mess, it gives people the apps they want.

BB10 is much more polished and will also run many Android apps from the Amazon Android App store, but the current phones have older SOC's in them, and battery life is poor. The BB Z10, essentially with Qualcomm iPhone 5 innards is particularly sweet to use. No-one trusts BlackBerry any more, and the Priv was an over-priced mistake.

Windows Phone history has for the most part been a dog's breakfast. I have a Palm Treo Pro here from 2008. It was operated by poking the tiny screen with a stick. At least we've moved away from that.

Of the current epoch; Microsoft have completely decimated consumer faith in their phone OS; Windows 10 upgrades which don't arrive, the 'app-gap' which just gets bigger by the day, and the crazy notion that if we all hang on just a little longer, things will be Better Tomorrow. The Lumias (and the Blu) phones on Windows 8 are excellent in almost every way, even the tiny Lumia 435 ( £55 from Sainsburies) is sweet and powerful. But it's not what people want.

The tail of this story is that, after a radical overhaul of what I do with with my phone; check emails, use Skype, send texts and make phone calls, Windows Phone 8 offers more stability, less background data use, and less PAYG mobile-data expense than either BB10 or Android.

So I have an excellent dual-sim £60 Blu Windows JR LTE, on WP8.2 which gives a three day battery life.

The joke that the Windows Phone is for people who don't need a smartphone is quite true. I'm a low -end user.

My friends think Windows phone is for grannies, but they're paying £300 - £400 a year for their contract smartphones.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. WP8.2 (Denim) is a pretty sweet place to be, and there's no Google data-mining. That's the real benefit.

The downside is that if you switch off social networking, and stop taking photos of yourself, your food, and your privates, nobody hangs out with you. So people buy the phones which enable that.

Windows Phone is just too 'adult.' Perfect for me.

DavidGover · 24-04-2016, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbeler

Also a Querty layout, which is absolutely pointless when it's impossible to touch-type two handed.

So you'd rather have a completely unfamiliar keyboard layout then?

gomezz · 24-04-2016, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Total waste of time for all but smartphone users who really aren't in the need of a smartphone.

Does that mean that those 72 app type thingies I have on my Windows phone don't give it any added smarts?

solare · 24-04-2016, 12:16

I don't have a smartphone but if/when I eventually get one, it will be a Lumia (if they are still being produced

.

Having had negative experiences with Apple/iOS and Google/Android, Windows is the best option, for me. The lack of apps wouldn't matter as I don't have a single app installed on my existing tablets. Reading the news, using Wikipedia, checking timetables, booking tickets and having the possibility to have tickets and boarding cards sent to my phone (something that's not possible with my non-smartphone) are really the only functions I need.

jonmorris · 24-04-2016, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Does that mean that those 72 app type thingies I have on my Windows phone don't give it any added smarts?

I have no idea as I've not seen your phone.

All I know is that I've got 6 Windows Phones and don't use any of them (well, the 1020 for photos every now and then) because all the key apps I use are not available.

If that changes, maybe I'll reconsider as I do like the OS itself. Frankly, I can't see that happening.

gomezz · 24-04-2016, 12:54

Just for comparison there are only nine apps I use which are available only on my Android tablet and six of those are TV catch up services which are better viewed on the larger screened device anyway,

jonmorris · 24-04-2016, 13:21

The Lumia 1520 should be an awesome media player, but unless you're sideloading content there's only really Netflix and a few others (iPlayer). No Sky Go, Now TV, Amazon and very few third party media players that manage streaming well.

It's such a shame as you've got a great Full-HD screen, but hardly anything to take advantage of it.

Android and iOS is swamped for choice.

finbaar · 24-04-2016, 21:52

So sad, so very sad.

Will Microsoft continue with the platform when they are selling so few?

jonmorris · 24-04-2016, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by finbaar

So sad, so very sad.

Will Microsoft continue with the platform when they are selling so few?

That's the million dollar question. For years the argument has been yes, in that Microsoft can afford to sit out out and play the long game - but regardless of whether it can afford to carry on, sooner or later someone must stop and reconsider.

A lot of the 'blame' can be put on developers for showing little interest, almost contempt, for the platform but these days few developers can afford to cover everything - so on that basis, nothing is going to change.

Now sales are even lower there's even less incentive, and we all know that if Microsoft pays for a few official apps, all that happens is you get those official apps - and even then, there's no guarantee of regular support and future updates.

So many other OSes have looked great but will never get supported. Lord knows enough people have tried. Maemo/Meego, Bada, webOS, Palm OS, Sailfish, Firefox OS or whatever it was called... The list goes on.

moox · 24-04-2016, 22:11

Palm OS actually was successful fpr a long time though, it just died because of a lack of innovation in the face of Windows Mobile and then the iPhone era. It's in the same boat as Symbian.

I can see WP occupying the sort of space that Series 40 does today - very cheap phones.

aurichie · 24-04-2016, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

That's the million dollar question. For years the argument has been yes, in that Microsoft can afford to sit out out and play the long game - but regardless of whether it can afford to carry on, sooner or later someone must stop and reconsider.

Given Microsoft is baking in Android support into the next major Windows 10 update, and people like Paul Thurrott are now recommending Android phones to readers, and how Microsoft totally overlooked Lumia and W10 phones at Build - it's over Johnny!

binary · 24-04-2016, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textmainiac

...
I think the quote that Windows Phone is good for people who don't need a smartphone is pretty apt; even though Android is a data-sucking mess, it gives people the apps they want.
...

My bolding - nice description of the Android ecosystem's approach to telemetry!

I've no experience of W10 on a mobile, but like many others I've admired the clean Windows Phone interface, but I'm an Android user now, in part because of the app gap.

jonmorris · 24-04-2016, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

Palm OS actually was successful fpr a long time though, it just died because of a lack of innovation in the face of Windows Mobile and then the iPhone era. It's in the same boat as Symbian.

I can see WP occupying the sort of space that Series 40 does today - very cheap phones.

Symbian and Palm were of an era where apps didn't really exist as they do today. Neither realised the true potential, and Nokia in particular with Series 60 (and to a degree, Sony Ericsson with UIQ) couldn't see fit to have a standard, non-competing app store that helped kill off the devices made by the likes of Motorola, Samsung, Panasonic etc.

When Palm went with Windows Mobile and non standard screen sizes (300x300 pixels or whatever it was) it became even worse. Even many WM apps didn't work!

Now it's all about apps, the time to create a wonderful new OS is pretty much over. It could be wonderful but still won't get any traction.

zz9 · 25-04-2016, 00:13

I think MS are still sticking with Windows Phone because they want Windows 10 to be a unified PC/tablet/phone OS, and if they give up on phone it will hurt the whole OS. Personally I like being able to have the exact same apps on phone, tablet and PC. I run the Metro official Twitter app in the corner of one of my monitors on my PC, far neater than keeping a Chrome window open for just Twitter, for example.

I'm lucky that my bank TSB has an official Windows app, but there are many official apps lacking. I can understand people like Youtube not making an official app since Google is behind Android and doesn't want a rival to succeed, and only makes iPhone apps because they are forced to by the size of the Apple market. But unofficial Youtube apps are actually better in many ways, like being able to download and save videos of offline viewing, which the official Youtube app on Android won't let you do.
So just because there isn't an official app doesn't mean there isn't an alternative.

But MS need to do something, and their advertising sucks.

jonmorris · 25-04-2016, 01:49

I know a lot about 'alternative' apps. When I did work for Microsoft, a whole section of their internal guides was dedicated to apps that weren't official - and using them to convince people that they were just as good.

We did printed guides, online guides and even a mobile app. And look where it got Microsoft...

Stig · 25-04-2016, 07:54

Microsoft shot themselves in the foot again. Everyone was waiting for Windows 10 Phone devices, so wouldn't buy the 'old' models.

gds1972 · 25-04-2016, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

That's the million dollar question. For years the argument has been yes, in that Microsoft can afford to sit out out and play the long game - but regardless of whether it can afford to carry on, sooner or later someone must stop and reconsider.

A lot of the 'blame' can be put on developers for showing little interest, almost contempt, for the platform but these days few developers can afford to cover everything - so on that basis, nothing is going to change.

Now sales are even lower there's even less incentive, and we all know that if Microsoft pays for a few official apps, all that happens is you get those official apps - and even then, there's no guarantee of regular support and future updates.

So many other OSes have looked great but will never get supported. Lord knows enough people have tried. Maemo/Meego, Bada, webOS, Palm OS, Sailfish, Firefox OS or whatever it was called... The list goes on.

I do think Microsoft are trying to address this issue with the Universal Windows Platform (UWP) and I guess we will have to wait and see if this ends up being the right thing for Microsoft to be doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...#Compatibility

fmradiotuner1 · 25-04-2016, 10:12

the 950 looks a very nice phone but no way paying out £30 a month for that

Moleskin · 25-04-2016, 10:13

They finally fixed all the bugs with 8.1. but then we have to start all over again with buggy 10.

Now you've got to choose whether to stick with stable 8.1. with no new apps coming or buggy 10 with doesn't work with a lot of older apps.

It's a mess and I think it's over, Android won even though that's far from perfect too.

jonmorris · 25-04-2016, 10:22

The OS is not really important these days (to most people). It's about apps and access to content.

It's very much iOS and Android now.

22-04-2016, 16:32	#1
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Microsoft Lumia sales nose dive selling only 2.3 million phones in 3 months On the back of previous bad results for the final quarter of 2015 Lumia sales have gone into free fall. It sold 2.3 million Lumias over the past three months, which is a 73 percent drop from this time last year when they sold 8.6 million. Microsoft sold 4.5 million in the previous quarter of 2015 which was a 57% drop year on year itself. Its hard to see Microsoft wanting to stay in the sector unless they want to continue it as a loss leader. http://www.engadget.com/2016/04/21/microsoft-q1-2016/ http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1374...t-three-months

23-04-2016, 01:00	#2
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I don't think anyone is surprised. If you're not into apps, it's a nice user interface. But people are into apps and BlackBerry had worked this out, switching to Android. I think Microsoft can call it a day and has pretty much put everything it does on iOS and Android so is covered. I've upgraded some of my Windows phones to 10 and it's all well and good except I feel that there's nothing I can do with them. No banking app, no Now TV app, no Amazon video, a buggy version of Tapatalk.. the list goes on. Total waste of time for all but smartphone users who really aren't in the need of a smartphone.

23-04-2016, 01:10	#3
barbeler Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11,705	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Total waste of time for all but smartphone users who really aren't in the need of a smartphone. I'm not really in need of a smart phone but I still think it's rubbish. Horrible keyboard with tiny keys that guarantee mistakes. Also a Querty layout, which is absolutely pointless when it's impossible to touch-type two handed. It's often quite an effort simply to answer a phone call, then there's the Bing button. Don't get me started on the Bing Button On my 520 version the camera is absolutely pointless and the only good point is that you can't take selfies with it.

23-04-2016, 06:02	#4
IvanIV Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 25,199	They are very zen about it. For businesses and enthusiasts. Only it's becoming more and more difficult to stay enthusiastic. Only thing that is still keeping me there is that I dislike other phones more.

23-04-2016, 06:27	#5
clm2071 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,293	I'm about to switch from my Lumia back to Android. I really like the WP interface but the app situation is just atrocious

24-04-2016, 08:19	#6
Textmainiac Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 87	I've been through all the phone OS's this year, including BB10, courtesy of free review samples (which have been returned.) I think the quote that Windows Phone is good for people who don't need a smartphone is pretty apt; even though Android is a data-sucking mess, it gives people the apps they want. BB10 is much more polished and will also run many Android apps from the Amazon Android App store, but the current phones have older SOC's in them, and battery life is poor. The BB Z10, essentially with Qualcomm iPhone 5 innards is particularly sweet to use. No-one trusts BlackBerry any more, and the Priv was an over-priced mistake. Windows Phone history has for the most part been a dog's breakfast. I have a Palm Treo Pro here from 2008. It was operated by poking the tiny screen with a stick. At least we've moved away from that. Of the current epoch; Microsoft have completely decimated consumer faith in their phone OS; Windows 10 upgrades which don't arrive, the 'app-gap' which just gets bigger by the day, and the crazy notion that if we all hang on just a little longer, things will be Better Tomorrow. The Lumias (and the Blu) phones on Windows 8 are excellent in almost every way, even the tiny Lumia 435 ( £55 from Sainsburies) is sweet and powerful. But it's not what people want. The tail of this story is that, after a radical overhaul of what I do with with my phone; check emails, use Skype, send texts and make phone calls, Windows Phone 8 offers more stability, less background data use, and less PAYG mobile-data expense than either BB10 or Android. So I have an excellent dual-sim £60 Blu Windows JR LTE, on WP8.2 which gives a three day battery life. The joke that the Windows Phone is for people who don't need a smartphone is quite true. I'm a low -end user. My friends think Windows phone is for grannies, but they're paying £300 - £400 a year for their contract smartphones. You pays your money, you takes your choice. WP8.2 (Denim) is a pretty sweet place to be, and there's no Google data-mining. That's the real benefit. The downside is that if you switch off social networking, and stop taking photos of yourself, your food, and your privates, nobody hangs out with you. So people buy the phones which enable that. Windows Phone is just too 'adult.' Perfect for me.

24-04-2016, 11:40	#7
DavidGover Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 74	Quote: Originally Posted by barbeler Also a Querty layout, which is absolutely pointless when it's impossible to touch-type two handed. So you'd rather have a completely unfamiliar keyboard layout then?

24-04-2016, 12:07	#8
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Total waste of time for all but smartphone users who really aren't in the need of a smartphone. Does that mean that those 72 app type thingies I have on my Windows phone don't give it any added smarts?

24-04-2016, 12:16	#9
solare Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 6,040	I don't have a smartphone but if/when I eventually get one, it will be a Lumia (if they are still being produced . Having had negative experiences with Apple/iOS and Google/Android, Windows is the best option, for me. The lack of apps wouldn't matter as I don't have a single app installed on my existing tablets. Reading the news, using Wikipedia, checking timetables, booking tickets and having the possibility to have tickets and boarding cards sent to my phone (something that's not possible with my non-smartphone) are really the only functions I need.

24-04-2016, 12:44	#10
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz Does that mean that those 72 app type thingies I have on my Windows phone don't give it any added smarts? I have no idea as I've not seen your phone. All I know is that I've got 6 Windows Phones and don't use any of them (well, the 1020 for photos every now and then) because all the key apps I use are not available. If that changes, maybe I'll reconsider as I do like the OS itself. Frankly, I can't see that happening.

24-04-2016, 12:54	#11
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Just for comparison there are only nine apps I use which are available only on my Android tablet and six of those are TV catch up services which are better viewed on the larger screened device anyway,

24-04-2016, 13:21	#12
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	The Lumia 1520 should be an awesome media player, but unless you're sideloading content there's only really Netflix and a few others (iPlayer). No Sky Go, Now TV, Amazon and very few third party media players that manage streaming well. It's such a shame as you've got a great Full-HD screen, but hardly anything to take advantage of it. Android and iOS is swamped for choice.

24-04-2016, 21:52	#13
finbaar Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,921	So sad, so very sad. Will Microsoft continue with the platform when they are selling so few?

24-04-2016, 22:01	#14
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by finbaar So sad, so very sad. Will Microsoft continue with the platform when they are selling so few? That's the million dollar question. For years the argument has been yes, in that Microsoft can afford to sit out out and play the long game - but regardless of whether it can afford to carry on, sooner or later someone must stop and reconsider. A lot of the 'blame' can be put on developers for showing little interest, almost contempt, for the platform but these days few developers can afford to cover everything - so on that basis, nothing is going to change. Now sales are even lower there's even less incentive, and we all know that if Microsoft pays for a few official apps, all that happens is you get those official apps - and even then, there's no guarantee of regular support and future updates. So many other OSes have looked great but will never get supported. Lord knows enough people have tried. Maemo/Meego, Bada, webOS, Palm OS, Sailfish, Firefox OS or whatever it was called... The list goes on.

24-04-2016, 22:11	#15
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Palm OS actually was successful fpr a long time though, it just died because of a lack of innovation in the face of Windows Mobile and then the iPhone era. It's in the same boat as Symbian. I can see WP occupying the sort of space that Series 40 does today - very cheap phones.

24-04-2016, 22:36	#16
aurichie Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 5,100	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris That's the million dollar question. For years the argument has been yes, in that Microsoft can afford to sit out out and play the long game - but regardless of whether it can afford to carry on, sooner or later someone must stop and reconsider. Given Microsoft is baking in Android support into the next major Windows 10 update, and people like Paul Thurrott are now recommending Android phones to readers, and how Microsoft totally overlooked Lumia and W10 phones at Build - it's over Johnny!

24-04-2016, 23:26	#17
binary Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 636	Quote: Originally Posted by Textmainiac ... I think the quote that Windows Phone is good for people who don't need a smartphone is pretty apt; even though Android is a data-sucking mess, it gives people the apps they want. ... My bolding - nice description of the Android ecosystem's approach to telemetry! I've no experience of W10 on a mobile, but like many others I've admired the clean Windows Phone interface, but I'm an Android user now, in part because of the app gap.

24-04-2016, 23:41	#18
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by moox Palm OS actually was successful fpr a long time though, it just died because of a lack of innovation in the face of Windows Mobile and then the iPhone era. It's in the same boat as Symbian. I can see WP occupying the sort of space that Series 40 does today - very cheap phones. Symbian and Palm were of an era where apps didn't really exist as they do today. Neither realised the true potential, and Nokia in particular with Series 60 (and to a degree, Sony Ericsson with UIQ) couldn't see fit to have a standard, non-competing app store that helped kill off the devices made by the likes of Motorola, Samsung, Panasonic etc. When Palm went with Windows Mobile and non standard screen sizes (300x300 pixels or whatever it was) it became even worse. Even many WM apps didn't work! Now it's all about apps, the time to create a wonderful new OS is pretty much over. It could be wonderful but still won't get any traction.

25-04-2016, 00:13	#19
zz9 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 10,449	I think MS are still sticking with Windows Phone because they want Windows 10 to be a unified PC/tablet/phone OS, and if they give up on phone it will hurt the whole OS. Personally I like being able to have the exact same apps on phone, tablet and PC. I run the Metro official Twitter app in the corner of one of my monitors on my PC, far neater than keeping a Chrome window open for just Twitter, for example. I'm lucky that my bank TSB has an official Windows app, but there are many official apps lacking. I can understand people like Youtube not making an official app since Google is behind Android and doesn't want a rival to succeed, and only makes iPhone apps because they are forced to by the size of the Apple market. But unofficial Youtube apps are actually better in many ways, like being able to download and save videos of offline viewing, which the official Youtube app on Android won't let you do. So just because there isn't an official app doesn't mean there isn't an alternative. But MS need to do something, and their advertising sucks.

25-04-2016, 01:49	#20
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I know a lot about 'alternative' apps. When I did work for Microsoft, a whole section of their internal guides was dedicated to apps that weren't official - and using them to convince people that they were just as good. We did printed guides, online guides and even a mobile app. And look where it got Microsoft...

25-04-2016, 07:54	#21
Stig Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK Posts: 10,383	Microsoft shot themselves in the foot again. Everyone was waiting for Windows 10 Phone devices, so wouldn't buy the 'old' models.

DS Forums

Microsoft Lumia sales nose dive selling only 2.3 million phones in 3 months

25-04-2016, 08:23	#22
gds1972 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,515	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris That's the million dollar question. For years the argument has been yes, in that Microsoft can afford to sit out out and play the long game - but regardless of whether it can afford to carry on, sooner or later someone must stop and reconsider. A lot of the 'blame' can be put on developers for showing little interest, almost contempt, for the platform but these days few developers can afford to cover everything - so on that basis, nothing is going to change. Now sales are even lower there's even less incentive, and we all know that if Microsoft pays for a few official apps, all that happens is you get those official apps - and even then, there's no guarantee of regular support and future updates. So many other OSes have looked great but will never get supported. Lord knows enough people have tried. Maemo/Meego, Bada, webOS, Palm OS, Sailfish, Firefox OS or whatever it was called... The list goes on. I do think Microsoft are trying to address this issue with the Universal Windows Platform (UWP) and I guess we will have to wait and see if this ends up being the right thing for Microsoft to be doing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...#Compatibility

25-04-2016, 10:12	#23
fmradiotuner1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: TheEssexSunshineCoast Clacton Posts: 15,220	the 950 looks a very nice phone but no way paying out £30 a month for that

25-04-2016, 10:13	#24
Moleskin Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3,040	They finally fixed all the bugs with 8.1. but then we have to start all over again with buggy 10. Now you've got to choose whether to stick with stable 8.1. with no new apps coming or buggy 10 with doesn't work with a lot of older apps. It's a mess and I think it's over, Android won even though that's far from perfect too.

25-04-2016, 10:22	#25
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	The OS is not really important these days (to most people). It's about apps and access to content. It's very much iOS and Android now.