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Doctor Who Spoilers & Information (Part 3) |
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#501 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Quote:
I try to avoid thinking about things in this way too much.
I loved Buffy when it was on TV, was sad to see it go when it did - as much as it got a decent ending. I was never much interested in comics but then I heard the tv story was continued in them and I decided to find out more... no longer constrained by a TV budget the possibilities were surely endless. What I found though was shocking... they turned Buffy's sister into a giant, and then a centaur... you don't need to even watch the show to know how bizarre that sounds. As someone who did watch it, it was just insulting to the shows own integrity. Every plotline seemed to involve a character from years earlier - now they didn't need to try and get back actors for it they could do whatever the hell they wanted. It was like the power went to the writers heads, and the whole thing failed to carve out its own essence whilst also failing to emulate that of the show it was based on. There was so much potential in what could have been done, and it wasn't realised... the main reason actually being because anyone who was anyone that was involved failed to excercise restraint. I could say the same for Torchwood. RTD and Chris Chibnall collectively thought that it'd be a good idea to promote a 'grown up sci-fi show' by having a sex alien in the second episode? It could have amounted to so much more at that stage, whereas I would argue the show peaked when it only had five episodes and a diminished main cast to work with (namely Children of Earth). When there was a sense of restraint. Recognising that the BBC doesn't have a whole load of budget to chuck at a spin-off, I'll admit I was just frankly surprised that one was cropping up at all - not many shows get confirmed spin-offs when they're airing their ninth series, especially sci-fi shows. If Class can have a bit of an edge like the best of Torchwood, and a bit of the heart of the best of The Sarah Jane Adventures I actually think it could almost come across as a rather decent merging of the two concepts into something decent of its own. It's set in a school in London and therefore isn't going to be Doctor Who itself... but if it can carve out its own essence then all the power to it. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, especially given Capaldi is involved albeit to a small degree too. My problem with Class is with it's concept. Even before anyone's seen it, how enticing exactly does a show set in a school sound? not very to me, and as such I think that puts it at a disadvantage for people to even give it a try, so whether it's good quality or not, people might even give it that chance to find out. Compare that with torchwood, and before we'd even seen it, we knew the concept was a well known doctor who character, running a branch of an organization that was just featured in the last major story arc of the main series. It practically screamed doctor who spin off as much as was possible. |
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#502 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Sometimes the shows with the most boring premises can turn out to be the best. The aforementioned Buffy, high school girl fights vampires while dealing with life problems, sounds like a recipe for disaster but actually worked.
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#503 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
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Do we know specifically when Bill will debut?
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#504 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 3,703
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Do we know specifically when Bill will debut?
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#505 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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I personally really liked Torchwood throughout. Did it seem as though in it's first few episodes that it was trying to force sexual stuff for the sake of it? admittedly yes, but I'd say that was just early wrangling with trying to get the tone right, which they then did, and I think I'm in a minority on this forum, but I think of series 1 and 2 as quality just as I do with children of earth, and the very fact that they were deemed good enough to then commission a big prime time five night event tv third series off the back of, shows that they must have done well at the time.
My problem with Class is with it's concept. Even before anyone's seen it, how enticing exactly does a show set in a school sound? not very to me, and as such I think that puts it at a disadvantage for people to even give it a try, so whether it's good quality or not, people might even give it that chance to find out. Compare that with torchwood, and before we'd even seen it, we knew the concept was a well known doctor who character, running a branch of an organization that was just featured in the last major story arc of the main series. It practically screamed doctor who spin off as much as was possible. Conceptually we actually know very little about Class. You could again use Buffy as an interesting parallel. As a premise it's predominantly set in a school, but amounted to so much more than that both in its initial season and the subsequent six even more so. It was the content, the quality of the characters and the decent writing that turned the vague premise into something special. To make a comparison that's a bit closer to home, just look at the opening run of episodes in Series 2 of Doctor Who. The first four standalone stories are respectively set on a future alien world, the Victorian Scottish highlands, a school in contemporary London, and the Palace of Versailles. Of those four you could easily make the argument that the school setting is the dullest of those four - and yet I'd wager that School Reunion is actually the favourite of those four among a great many people - including a younger audience who had never seen Sarah Jane and so there was no sense of nostalgia for them (I was among them viewers at the time). It was good enough to ensure the go-ahead of The Sarah Jane Adventures which for all intents and purposes was also a school-based spin-off as well. I think with competent writing, good acting and effort made that Class could be something very good. It's not going to be Doctor Who itself and in a way I'm glad it's not trying to be. I'm hoping it owns the fact it can't fall back on alien planets and period settings in quite the same way and manages some decent character stuff. Maybe with success (and I'll admit it if I think it's awful) the characters of Class will at some point cross their way over into Doctor Who...there's no rule that they have to derive from the main show in the first place, and there's potential at least. But then maybe I'm being overly optimistic? Who nose? |
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#506 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London or Valencia
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Quote:
Do we know specifically when Bill will debut?
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#507 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Very likely to be the first episode of Series 10, which is currently going by the title A Star In Her Eye. That being said, she might well make an unexpected earlier appearance in the Christmas special this year, you never know with Moffat.
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#508 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Wilderness
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When did the title come out?
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#509 |
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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I could say the same for Torchwood. RTD and Chris Chibnall collectively thought that it'd be a good idea to promote a 'grown up sci-fi show' by having a sex alien in the second episode?
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#510 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,355
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For all their faults I enjoy the first two series' of Torchwood too. Not as much as Children of Earth but they were decent enough, and I cared about most of the characters to some degree. All the same those faults are glaring, and for me weren't so much 'early wrangling' as a misjudgement. Whilst I can overlook them the entire first series of Torchwood was flawed in this way. Chris Chibnall's earlier scripts in particular were borderline creepy in places - shoehorning in sex talk and "mature themes" in a way I'd expect a basement-dwelling teenager writing fanfiction to do it. There were decent ideas behind a story like Cyberwoman, but it was all done from completely the wrong angle.
Conceptually we actually know very little about Class. You could again use Buffy as an interesting parallel. As a premise it's predominantly set in a school, but amounted to so much more than that both in its initial season and the subsequent six even more so. It was the content, the quality of the characters and the decent writing that turned the vague premise into something special. To make a comparison that's a bit closer to home, just look at the opening run of episodes in Series 2 of Doctor Who. The first four standalone stories are respectively set on a future alien world, the Victorian Scottish highlands, a school in contemporary London, and the Palace of Versailles. Of those four you could easily make the argument that the school setting is the dullest of those four - and yet I'd wager that School Reunion is actually the favourite of those four among a great many people - including a younger audience who had never seen Sarah Jane and so there was no sense of nostalgia for them (I was among them viewers at the time). It was good enough to ensure the go-ahead of The Sarah Jane Adventures which for all intents and purposes was also a school-based spin-off as well. I think with competent writing, good acting and effort made that Class could be something very good. It's not going to be Doctor Who itself and in a way I'm glad it's not trying to be. I'm hoping it owns the fact it can't fall back on alien planets and period settings in quite the same way and manages some decent character stuff. Maybe with success (and I'll admit it if I think it's awful) the characters of Class will at some point cross their way over into Doctor Who...there's no rule that they have to derive from the main show in the first place, and there's potential at least. But then maybe I'm being overly optimistic? Who nose? Given that previously, we had the set up where there was a spin off for adults, and a spin off for children, I think knowing there was only to be one spin off this time, they should have written it for the entire who audience, rather than teen's, who, to me seem the most unlikely age group to be engaging with the main show, let alone a spin off. |
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#511 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Gattiss says Christmas special is 'Beautiful' and one of Moffats best ever scripts.
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-...ark-gatiss-cry I genuinely hope I feel the same when I watch it. I think when he's on his game, Moffat can be better at the christmas specials than in series episodes, as I consider A Christmas carol, Last Christmas and the husbands of River song, to be some of the finest episodes of his era. That being said though, Gattiss's idea of what makes a good script is a bit here and there based on his own contributions, so I'm not sure how much faith to put in his opinion. |
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#512 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I really hope the Cybermen make an appearance this year. It's their 50th Anniversary - The Tenth Planet is 50 next month. If they don't then Moffat will have missed one of the best tricks he could pull off and will be a hugely disappointing Christmas episode.
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#513 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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I really hope the Cybermen make an appearance this year. It's their 50th Anniversary - The Tenth Planet is 50 next month. If they don't then Moffat will have missed one of the best tricks he could pull off and will be a hugely disappointing Christmas episode.
Besides, something isn't 'the best trick they could pull off' just because it happens to be the 50th anniversary of the Cybermen. Episodes should be written on creative merit,not because the showrunner feels pressured into using a certain thing because fans think the time is right for them to do so. The best 'trick' they could pull off isn't a trick at all. It's simply trying to write a fun, dramatic and engaging episode, the way it always is. I'm all for returning characters/races, but because the writer has been inspired to do so, and has a good story in mind, not because fans say 'but you have to, it's the >insert time< anniversary of so and so. Start down that road and they'd be presumably pressured to use characters every few years. |
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#514 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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The Cybermen have not been used well for a good few years (especially there appearance in the series 8 finale, where they apparently were fine with being Missy servants) and as such, unless they were part of a bigger group as in the pandorica scenario, I think it would be a waste of an episode.
Besides, something isn't 'the best trick they could pull off' just because it happens to be the 50th anniversary of the Cybermen. Episodes should be written on creative merit,not because the showrunner feels pressured into using a certain thing because fans think the time is right for them to do so. The best 'trick' they could pull off isn't a trick at all. It's simply trying to write a fun, dramatic and engaging episode, the way it always is. I'm all for returning characters/races, but because the writer has been inspired to do so, and has a good story in mind, not because fans say 'but you have to, it's the >insert time< anniversary of so and so. Start down that road and they'd be presumably pressured to use characters every few years. |
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#515 |
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Scattered
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I don't know if this is a mistake or what but it's saying that Fady Elsayed (Ram in Class) has filmed for Doctor Who ....
http://www.beaumontlondon.com/clients/fady-elsayed |
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#516 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 70
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Re: Class, this was posted today on the BBC website official DW page:
"Class is a YA series that will premiere on BBC Three this Autumn and will feature more mature themes than Doctor Who - please note it is not suitable viewing for younger audiences." There are unsubstantiated reports (not part of the above article, which was about Class launching its own social media pages) that at least one character meets a very gruesome end, lots of blood etc. So deffo not a kids' show. They mean it when they say they are aiming for British Buffy. |
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#517 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,405
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I'll be interested to see what is meant by "more mature themes". Hopefully it doesn't just mean gore and swearing. I think that's the mistake they made with Torchwood's first season.
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#518 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Not a children's show ? I'll believe it when I see it. !
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#519 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Not a children's show ? I'll believe it when I see it. !
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#520 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Re: Class, this was posted today on the BBC website official DW page:
"Class is a YA series that will premiere on BBC Three this Autumn and will feature more mature themes than Doctor Who - please note it is not suitable viewing for younger audiences." There are unsubstantiated reports (not part of the above article, which was about Class launching its own social media pages) that at least one character meets a very gruesome end, lots of blood etc. So deffo not a kids' show. They mean it when they say they are aiming for British Buffy. I do think it's a shame this isn't something a little more accessible for children though, this is something I think Torchwood did wrong. I love Doctor Who being dark and a little horrifying, but if you're going to do full-on adult Doctor Who material, I reckon it's best limited to audios and novels rather than actual television as it's going to leave children feeling like they're missing out. |
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#521 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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I hope it's more along the lines of SJA and CoE's idea of mature themes rather than what Torchwood initially thought "mature" is (sex, f-bombs, sex, gore and sex... oh, and sex, sex, sex).
I do think it's a shame this isn't something a little more accessible for children though, this is something I think Torchwood did wrong. I love Doctor Who being dark and a little horrifying, but if you're going to do full-on adult Doctor Who material, I reckon it's best limited to audios and novels rather than actual television as it's going to leave children feeling like they're missing out. The thing is, right from the very first announcement, they've made it clear that the purpose behind Class is to make something for the 16-17 to early twenties demographic which tends to fall out of love with DW, even if they loved it as children, and (erroneously or otherwise) think of DW as being too childish for them, only rediscovering their interest in it after some years (or sometimes never). That's not a new phenomenon - it's exactly what happened to Peter Capaldi way back in the 1970s ... he's said that after getting every magazine, annual etc., writing to Radio Times, trying to take over the fan club, when he went to college and discovered girls, punk, etc etc he stopped watching the show and burned all his memorabilia, including items signed by various Doctors, etc., only coming back to the show much later. It's that lost demographic that Class is squarely aimed at, to keep them connected to the Doctor Who universe. Also, Buffy was very definitely made for the 16-up market and had sex coming out of its ears in some episodes (not literally LOL), and that was very happily watched by reams of invested 12-year-olds, even if it wasn't intended to be. It all depends on how classily (pun not intended) these things are handled in-story, IMO, and whether they're an inherent part of character development or shoehorned in for sensationalism (which is the impression a lot of people got from early Torchwood, I think...) |
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#522 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Well we know that there's a gay character, and a gay sex scene of some sort ... but I don't think that sex is as much a preoccupation of Patrick Ness's as it was for RTD (I don't mean RTD Who, but it was a big concern of his to write about it frankly in Queer as Folk, and later on in Cucumber, etc...)
The thing is, right from the very first announcement, they've made it clear that the purpose behind Class is to make something for the 16-17 to early twenties demographic which tends to fall out of love with DW, even if they loved it as children, and (erroneously or otherwise) think of DW as being too childish for them, only rediscovering their interest in it after some years (or sometimes never). That's not a new phenomenon - it's exactly what happened to Peter Capaldi way back in the 1970s ... he's said that after getting every magazine, annual etc., writing to Radio Times, trying to take over the fan club, when he went to college and discovered girls, punk, etc etc he stopped watching the show and burned all his memorabilia, including items signed by various Doctors, etc., only coming back to the show much later. It's that lost demographic that Class is squarely aimed at, to keep them connected to the Doctor Who universe. Also, Buffy was very definitely made for the 16-up market and had sex coming out of its ears in some episodes (not literally LOL), and that was very happily watched by reams of invested 12-year-olds, even if it wasn't intended to be. It all depends on how classily (pun not intended) these things are handled in-story, IMO, and whether they're an inherent part of character development or shoehorned in for sensationalism (which is the impression a lot of people got from early Torchwood, I think...) Anyway, for me the "British Buffy" thing is concerning to me, as whenever a show tries to "be like Buffy" it tends to be a disaster. Aside from the "Plot A; Plot B" structure it's a very difficult kind of show to imitate as it's a distinctly Joss Whedon type of show. Possibly one of the things that didn't wow me about RTD's Who, he was trying to base it off a completely different show without having Whedon's talent for that sort of stuff (imo). I'm very curious about how the show will turn out though; right now I'm just waiting for an actual trailer. I'd be very pleased to actually have something else to watch this year.
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#523 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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I remember an episode where Buffy and Riley (whom nobody liked) spent the entire episode getting down and dirty and for some reason that was causing all sorts of weird mystical stuff to happen, and if I remember correctly the general consensus is that it's the worst episode of the entire show (weird, considering it's the same season that had Hush). :P
Anyway, for me the "British Buffy" thing is concerning to me, as whenever a show tries to "be like Buffy" it tends to be a disaster. Aside from the "Plot A; Plot B" structure it's a very difficult kind of show to imitate as it's a distinctly Joss Whedon type of show. Possibly one of the things that didn't wow me about RTD's Who, he was trying to base it off a completely different show without having Whedon's talent for that sort of stuff (imo). I'm very curious about how the show will turn out though; right now I'm just waiting for an actual trailer. I'd be very pleased to actually have something else to watch this year. ![]() |
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#524 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,601
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I don't know if this is a mistake or what but it's saying that Fady Elsayed (Ram in Class) has filmed for Doctor Who ....
http://www.beaumontlondon.com/clients/fady-elsayed Might be worth checking the CVs of other Class Cast members. |
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#525 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 10,236
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Gattiss says Christmas special is 'Beautiful' and one of Moffats best ever scripts.
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I'll be interested to see what is meant by "more mature themes". Hopefully it doesn't just mean gore and swearing. I think that's the mistake they made with Torchwood's first season.
It could be terrible, or it could be great. I have no idea what way it will go. If they do go for a sort of "Waterloo Road with aliens" that wouldn't necessarily be bad. Waterloo Road was quite good back in the day, though less so towards the end. Hopefully the show won't end up coming across as too preachy or feeling like a Soap. |
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