• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • Gadgets
  • Mobile Phones
Should rural residents expect the same service?
<<
<
2 of 2
>>
>
Stereo Steve
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by Aye Up:
“If you are on contract with Three I can give you a Home Signal box (same as sure signal) for nowt. I am no longer on Three so I have no need, they should be able to register it to yourself as long as you are on contract.

PM me if you want it, can get it to you later this week.”

Thanks for the very kind offer but 3 is not my main number. My main number is on VOD. I'm on PAYG with both at the mo. All works well on 2G (topping up issues aside). If I do need to use the 3 number, TinT works OK, sort of. I use 3 as the data sim and it works pretty well around here. Nobody really ever calls me on it. If I could find a nice phone that would do 3G on both sims I would be happy until either VO2 or EE get 800 to my mast. I could run a sure signal in the house for calls and 3 is pretty good for data around here (as much as I need anyway).

I've been with Android for a while and no real complaints but prefer iOS so will see what the 7 is like and then make a decision on which network / phone to go for. Perhaps things will be clearer by then ref VO2's rural intentions around these parts.
moox
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by CheshireBumpkin:
“That winds me up so much. They're doing it here in Cheshire - offering a voucher scheme to subsidise installation. Once they've 'made superfast (!) available' in this way they seem to be able to mark you off as 'dealt with' and therefore no need to push harder for a more appropriate solution like fibre.

Satellite is no superfast solution as far as I'm concerned. On paper, the download is OK, but the upload and latency renders it a horrific experience. The satellite providers have struggled with contention and capacity for a while now already, so I can't imagine how poor the end-user experience will be for the poor buggers who excitedly sign up to it over the next few months and years.

...”

I agree entirely. If I was in that predicament I'd actually just keep the slow ADSL - at least it's predictably slow, and quite low latency. Or look into 3G/4G as much as possible, all the way to putting up outdoor antennas and such

A purpose built LTE network (with appropriate prices and caps) should work well though, but ideally wired solutions should be used for as many people as possible.

Originally Posted by Aye Up:
“If you are on contract with Three I can give you a Home Signal box (same as sure signal) for nowt. I am no longer on Three so I have no need, they should be able to register it to yourself as long as you are on contract.

PM me if you want it, can get it to you later this week.”

I'm surprised that they let you keep it (as it's their property). Is there any reports of anyone being able to re-activate one? When I got mine it was already pre-programmed and ready to go.
CheshireBumpkin
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“I agree entirely. If I was in that predicament I'd actually just keep the slow ADSL - at least it's predictably slow, and quite low latency. Or look into 3G/4G as much as possible, all the way to putting up outdoor antennas and such

A purpose built LTE network (with appropriate prices and caps) should work well though, but ideally wired solutions should be used for as many people as possible.”

Yes, I'd choose slow ADSL over satellite any day.

I use a 4G solution for home broadband and it's far better than any other solution that's available to me. The main downside is the cost and lack of a decent data plan for 'home broadband' use.

There's also my constant fear that when the leaves come out properly my weak 4G signal (using an outdoor antenna) will be lost....
countyboy
26-04-2016
A WiBE can be a good call in rural areas - made by Deltenna. Good for pulling in and locking onto a 3G or 4G signal for internet.
GreenLantern
27-04-2016
If Vodafone rollout anything that hasn't got some sort of flaw in it, or some sort of cost cutting measure baked in, or isn't oversubscribed 24hrs after its launched, I'll be impressed.

So no, I don't believe they will follow EE to 95% geo coverage, or if they do, as with their current rollout, it will again be totally flawed and barely worth them doing.

EE are far out ahead, their network, where I've used it, is leaps and bounds ahead of Vodafone's network and I'm a Vodafone fan, so I'm not just saying that.

I really really hope Vodafone at one point in the NEAR future pulls it together, I just don't see it happening, they failed their 3G rollout and they're failing their 4G rollout all over again.

I don't even know how people in Newbury and Paddington can sit there and think they are doing ok in the face of what EE are doing ? Are Vodafone just aiming to do well enough to get people onto the network and keep them there. I can't understand any reason at all (beyond roaming and cost) where someone who has used EE would choose Vodafone instead, I just can't.

Its not like Vodafone don't have the money to do this rollout properly either, why they got into bed with the most indebted company in the world to rollout a network is beyond me, I can only begin to think how many corners Telefonica are cutting on their part of the rollout. Its all about shareholder dividends to Vodafone and not about giving customers what they want, I'm nearly at the end of my tether with them and I'm sure a lot of other life long Vodafone customers are as well.

The only thing they're truly very good at is marketing their brand, which ultimately is just a smokescreen for how crap their network always was.
DevonBloke
27-04-2016
I will simply take issue with the "lifestyle choices" bit.
I don't live here out of choice. I live here (in South Devon) because I was born here.
I grew up here, I farmed here for 15 years and now contribute to the local economy by running my own business here.
Places like this wouldn't exist if the landowners didn't look after it. It would literally be a baron wasteland.
People from urban areas come here for the beauty of the place but it isn't like that on it's own.
Rural dwellers work bloody hard to keep it this way.

I see no reason whatsoever why we should be second in line.
We should get the same as everyone else and at the same time, period!
Aye Up
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by moox:
“I'm surprised that they let you keep it (as it's their property). Is there any reports of anyone being able to re-activate one? When I got mine it was already pre-programmed and ready to go.”

I believe it can be reset to support a new user. I had to pay for the home signal, so its mine unless they want to return the money I paid.

Its simple enough, although not as simple as transferring sure signals sadly.
Aye Up
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by GreenLantern:
“Its not like Vodafone don't have the money to do this rollout properly either, why they got into bed with the most indebted company in the world to rollout a network is beyond me, I can only begin to think how many corners Telefonica are cutting on their part of the rollout. Its all about shareholder dividends to Vodafone and not about giving customers what they want, I'm nearly at the end of my tether with them and I'm sure a lot of other life long Vodafone customers are as well.”

I think you overlook the fact the network was shit in the first place, so they are essentially starting from scratch. IMHO they are doing it well, where they have upgraded areas, speeds are in double figures usually, call quality is great as always. I don't think they are skimping on it either, they are on course to spend well over £1bn on the network this year. I would certainly hazard a guess to say they are outspending EE this year, of course only to catch up.

Vodafone know they have come in for a lot of slack and they are doing their best to rectify that. O2 as a separate entity aren't indebted, their parent is, in fact O2 have a healthy cash flow and cash balance, though it is salami sliced by those further up the chain.

I'm confident Vodafone will improve even more so over the next 4/5 years, EE has set the standard and currently are WAY out in front, its a mountain to climb. I have no doubt Vodafone and to a lesser extent O2 can rise to the challenge. It takes time, sadly Vodafone just seems to be taking a lot of it.
Aye Up
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by DevonBloke:
“I will simply take issue with the "lifestyle choices" bit.
I don't live here out of choice. I live here (in South Devon) because I was born here.
I grew up here, I farmed here for 15 years and now contribute to the local economy by running my own business here.
Places like this wouldn't exist if the landowners didn't look after it. It would literally be a baron wasteland.
People from urban areas come here for the beauty of the place but it isn't like that on it's own.
Rural dwellers work bloody hard to keep it this way.

I see no reason whatsoever why we should be second in line.
We should get the same as everyone else and at the same time, period!”

That was a provocative phrase on my part, yet does not form part of my opinion. I am merely trying to contrast city benevolence with people like yourself and others who live in rural areas.

I will say again I don't believe living in the country is a lifestyle choice for those that are born and bred there. As you have alluded to, you keep the local economy ticking at all times of the year, rather than those who saunter in, make a mess, and leave.

The larger point I am getting to is at what level and maybe cost should rural residents expect parity with those in dense urban areas?
Stereo Steve
27-04-2016
As I mentioned before, many of us pay huge council tax bills and get very few services. Our house prices are high purely because city folk want to move here bid them up. We don't have street lights, regular police patrols, road cleaning etc. Not to mention the huge cuts in rural public transport. So in some ways, we are subbing the towns.
jchamier
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“We don't have street lights, regular police patrols, road cleaning etc. Not to mention the huge cuts in rural public transport..”

Not that different in my town, no police patrols, street lights that sometimes work (mostly switched off after 11pm to save money) and almost no public transport due to cuts in subsidies, only commercially profitable bus routes remain.

In my view the UK rural areas should have the same services, its not as if we are talking about rural Kansas in the USA where the issues of distance are stunningly different, and population density is insane - or worse in Australia. In those places the only solution is radio technologies. (mobile/LTE or satellite).
de525ma
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“Not that different in my town, no police patrols, street lights that sometimes work (mostly switched off after 11pm to save money) and almost no public transport due to cuts in subsidies, only commercially profitable bus routes remain.

In my view the UK rural areas should have the same services, its not as if we are talking about rural Kansas in the USA where the issues of distance are stunningly different, and population density is insane - or worse in Australia. In those places the only solution is radio technologies. (mobile/LTE or satellite).”

Exactly. A premises that I work at is only 3 miles from a fibre enabled exchange, and has about 30 premises within a 1 mile radius of it. Yet everyone there is stuck with services at 750 kilobits - 1 megabit, due to the lack of ADSL2+ (which may not make that much difference, but it would be a start) and all lines being cabled straight into the exchange. There's no mobile services either. It's only 3 miles! Get some fibre laid already!

No action from Aberdeenshire council or those in charge of the Scottish Government. It's not islandy or central belty enough.

Dear Alex Salmond recently demanded "Better mobile services for Methlick". There's a 4G transmitter for EE and 3 in the village ffs.

We need government to start investing in rural broadband properly across the whole of the UK. BT have no incentive to do so.
lost boy
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by Stereo Steve:
“I suppose, if we want our country to stay the way it is, with urban centers and rural retreats, then we have to accept that it is just going to cost to get essential services out to those areas. Not only for the people who live there but for those who want to visit (and who are very welcome to visit). I guess, I think I echo Moox's point (if I have got it right) that fast BB is now like water and electricity. You can barely get by without it unless you opt out of modern society in some way. So, it has become an essential utility and must realistically be rolled out across the whole of the UK.

There are a very few places who have no mains water and rely on a borehole and the same for electricity.

I suppose the frustration is that there are a lot of us who are not remote in the slightest. Live within 3 miles of a major town and between 2 major cities, 25 miles each way and yet are still in the third world in terms of telecoms with really nothing on the horizon other than the offerings of the mobile companies. It's a bit pathetic when you think about it.”

BIB - absolutely, and that raises a separate question; define 'rural'?

The OP is quite breezy about it, but there's no real strict definition of when an area stops being rural (village to large village, small town to town, town to large town etc). Regardless, O2 and Vodafone both class some distance around my area as 'rural' and have, ahem, 'invested' accordingly shall we say. In the meantime Three and EE have run away with things, and have unsurprisingly hoovered up any customers who actually want to use data and/or travel around a bit.

With that in mind, I tend to agree with all of this:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern:
“If Vodafone rollout anything that hasn't got some sort of flaw in it, or some sort of cost cutting measure baked in, or isn't oversubscribed 24hrs after its launched, I'll be impressed.

So no, I don't believe they will follow EE to 95% geo coverage, or if they do, as with their current rollout, it will again be totally flawed and barely worth them doing.

EE are far out ahead, their network, where I've used it, is leaps and bounds ahead of Vodafone's network and I'm a Vodafone fan, so I'm not just saying that.

I really really hope Vodafone at one point in the NEAR future pulls it together, I just don't see it happening, they failed their 3G rollout and they're failing their 4G rollout all over again.

I don't even know how people in Newbury and Paddington can sit there and think they are doing ok in the face of what EE are doing ? Are Vodafone just aiming to do well enough to get people onto the network and keep them there. I can't understand any reason at all (beyond roaming and cost) where someone who has used EE would choose Vodafone instead, I just can't.

Its not like Vodafone don't have the money to do this rollout properly either, why they got into bed with the most indebted company in the world to rollout a network is beyond me, I can only begin to think how many corners Telefonica are cutting on their part of the rollout. Its all about shareholder dividends to Vodafone and not about giving customers what they want, I'm nearly at the end of my tether with them and I'm sure a lot of other life long Vodafone customers are as well.

The only thing they're truly very good at is marketing their brand, which ultimately is just a smokescreen for how crap their network always was.”

Just to add; if Vodafone do pull a rabbit out of the hat here, and things get anywhere near an equivalent level of service to Three/EE here then good for them - I hope they do, because I want to be impressed by them, and to (quite frankly) have an option that isn't the usual Three/EE pairing would be a nice change. However as things stand it's not looking good; yes they (O2/VF) have rolled out some 4G here over the last few months now, but there's a problem - lack of masts (seriously, even with the sharing, O2/VF have about a quarter of the masts that Three/EE do, covering the same patch of area), an issue which with the best will in the world 800 alone simply can't resolve, which explains the rabbit mention.
Stereo Steve
27-04-2016
Originally Posted by de525ma:
“Exactly. A premises that I work at is only 3 miles from a fibre enabled exchange, and has about 30 premises within a 1 mile radius of it. Yet everyone there is stuck with services at 750 kilobits - 1 megabit, due to the lack of ADSL2+ (which may not make that much difference, but it would be a start) and all lines being cabled straight into the exchange. There's no mobile services either. It's only 3 miles! Get some fibre laid already!

No action from Aberdeenshire council or those in charge of the Scottish Government. It's not islandy or central belty enough.

Dear Alex Salmond recently demanded "Better mobile services for Methlick". There's a 4G transmitter for EE and 3 in the village ffs.

We need government to start investing in rural broadband properly across the whole of the UK. BT have no incentive to do so.”

The difference between 750 and 2meg is huge for the end user. It's pathetic that we should even remember these speeds in 2016, never mind a vast amount of the population have to put up with them. Focus should be on 99% 20meg minimum. Then the real tough ones served by wireless.
Chris1973
27-04-2016
Quote:
“define 'rural'?”

http://postimg.org/image/ckrvvj7ld/

Rural enough for you?. This is one location I visit quite often.

In reality ADSL is just about obtainable depending on how far down the lane you live, at the near end it hovers between ISDN speeds and 400kbps (on a very good day), at the far end ADSL vanishes and its 56k dial up only. If it ever hits the dizzy heights of 512k in the ADSL bit, all of the locals all throw a big party. This may have been reasonable in back in 2001, but fifteen years later its dire, especially as customers in this area still have to pay exactly the same line rental as somebody getting 80mbps Fibre.

And some still wonder why some locations have to turn to 3G as a substitute for ADSL......
GreenLantern
28-04-2016
Originally Posted by Aye Up:
“I think you overlook the fact the network was shit in the first place, so they are essentially starting from scratch. IMHO they are doing it well, where they have upgraded areas, speeds are in double figures usually, call quality is great as always. I don't think they are skimping on it either, they are on course to spend well over £1bn on the network this year. I would certainly hazard a guess to say they are outspending EE this year, of course only to catch up.

Vodafone know they have come in for a lot of slack and they are doing their best to rectify that. O2 as a separate entity aren't indebted, their parent is, in fact O2 have a healthy cash flow and cash balance, though it is salami sliced by those further up the chain.

I'm confident Vodafone will improve even more so over the next 4/5 years, EE has set the standard and currently are WAY out in front, its a mountain to climb. I have no doubt Vodafone and to a lesser extent O2 can rise to the challenge. It takes time, sadly Vodafone just seems to be taking a lot of it.”

Aye Up - some good points there - Telefonica do siphon off a lot of cash from O2 that could stay at O2, but beyond that - I just hope you're right.

Also in Central London (where the majority of my testing occurs) Vodafone is already saturated again. The 4G goes in, is unused, you get good speeds and slowly bit by bit it gets filled up to the point that I now get faster speeds by locking the phone to 3G than I do having it set to 4G (below double digits on 4G now is normal).

Then they come back again in select areas and do the 2600 band - but don't CA it, that then slowly gets saturated and its either pot luck whether they leave it like that or they shortly after Carrier Aggregate it.

So my basis for this is being in the middle of one of their advanced rollout areas and being highly disappointed with how they are doing it.

As stated in my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, EE's worst is equal to Vodafone's best at the moment and thats not really anything for Vodafone to be proud of.

Lost boy - thanks !
mrgs12
03-05-2016
Originally Posted by CheshireBumpkin:
“I'd agree if that was true - but it's not. There are a huge number of households who are rural (and not so rural) and not at all remote, whose cabinets are 'enabled' but they are too far from the cabinet to get FTTC. This often happens over relatively short geographical distances where the old BT copper lines follow sometimes bizarre and seemingly random routes to homes that make the actual line distance significantly longer.

Personally I think there should be something like a published list of 'installation cost caps', under which a new superfast connection would be provided from public funds. This would be a budget per household, and if the installation cost went over the cap the householder would be expected to pay the excess. There would need to be some sort of transparency around true installation costs for it to work otherwise BT would be claiming a suburban terrace cost £10K to connect to the cabinet at the end of the street.

To pluck a number from the air, it might be £1k per household. That way, if you live halfway up a Welsh mountain you would probably have to pay a sum yourself, but would receive a £1k contribution to the cost. If you're in a hamlet 2 miles from the nearest town, a group of four houses might not have to pay anything if they pooled their household 'allowance'.

No idea if it would be workable in any form, but seems a fair compromise to me.”

http://www.stroudlife.co.uk/Villager...ail/story.html
mrgs12
03-05-2016
Originally Posted by Chris1973:
“http://postimg.org/image/ckrvvj7ld/

Rural enough for you?. This is one location I visit quite often.

In reality ADSL is just about obtainable depending on how far down the lane you live, at the near end it hovers between ISDN speeds and 400kbps (on a very good day), at the far end ADSL vanishes and its 56k dial up only. If it ever hits the dizzy heights of 512k in the ADSL bit, all of the locals all throw a big party. This may have been reasonable in back in 2001, but fifteen years later its dire, especially as customers in this area still have to pay exactly the same line rental as somebody getting 80mbps Fibre.

And some still wonder why some locations have to turn to 3G as a substitute for ADSL......”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35718107
Redcoat
04-05-2016
First I would concur with DevonBloke, moox, Stereo Steve etc. that living in a "rural" area isn't just for those who want a nice holiday home or to escape from the urban rat race - plenty of us were born here and make our lives here either voluntary or for more personal reasons e.g. family. The local authority area where I live, Fermanagh & Omagh District, has nearly 70% of its residents classed as living in rural settlements (under the NISRA, this means living in a settlement with a population of less than 4500 people) yet the average wage per head is one of the lowest in the UK - on the plus side we're also the happiest part of the UK according to government research.

However no matter how happy we are with life in general, it poses major challenges for broadband & mobile infrastructure to meet. An Ofcom report back in December pointed out that nearly 20% of residences in the LGA have a phone line that is only capable of a broadband download speed of 2Mbps or less, rising to 37% for the proposed USO of 10Mbps! That is despite a quite extensive FTTC roll out that begun over five years ago in Northern Ireland which while great for many people including the majority of "rural" residents (including myself) that can take advantage of this, it only exacerbates the digital divide over relatively short distances whereby in one place a family can get an 80/20 FTTC service while just over two miles away another family might be lucky to get a 2Mbps ADSL service as they're too far from their cabinet and the exchange is also a good length away. It doesn't help that also according to Ofcom, NI landlines have a longer line length from the exchange than average compared to GB, as well as four times more telephone poles per head of population.

It's pretty clear that G.fast will not solve this problem locally, given that if ADSL has line length down as important for expected speeds, FTTC is fairly critical on this and the G.fast proposal would be even more so - the only benefit would be in a very few places of say a small rural housing estate well away from other villages or hamlets which at present is too far from their nearest roadside cabinet (or are EO lines) with not enough of a presence to justify a roadside cabinet to enable FTTC where a G.fast DSLAM could be mounted on a pole within the estate if costs justify. For most others however it just simply isn't a solution - the only viable alternatives are either actual FTTP or a fixed wireless service that is not heavily contented (as one such WiMax provider locally seems to just cram every user on to one link which slows to a crawl on evenings & weekends) - personally I'd like to see BT/Openreach trial a FWA from their NSV 2.6GHz spectrum. The only other possible alternative is for long-reach VDSL2 to be deployed but my understanding is that ADSL services would have to be shut down at the exchange for this to be possible - practical for the majority of exchanges here are are not unbundled but problematic for those that are, including my own. Would require special permission from Ofcom to be allowed to do this I'd imagine.

As to wherever there should be some sort of government intervention to help achieve this, I'd say yes - plenty of rural residents come in to urban locations for their employment, many urban localities have interventions/grants/subsidies for various projects in the same way that rural areas do, and that rural communities & industry, be it agricultural or otherwise, forms an important economic and cultural backbone to the country. Also not everything in terms of infrastructure in rural areas automatically demands subsidisation. However two things need to be considered. First, a "one-size-fits-all" approach needs to be looked well beyond this now as it's becoming clear that Openreach's copper network will not be able to deliver superfast speeds to all customers especially given the demographic make up and population spread of some places. Secondly, broadband and mobile coverage need to be looked in isolation from each other - it is practical in many cases for communities whom have been fobbed off by BT and local broadband groups associated with local governmental authorities to try and form their own alt-nets either through their own fibre network like B4RN or through a FWA network that could be commercial or not-for-profit with connections to internet backbones not dealt with Openreach at all. Mobile coverage is different - you can't just put up a mast to connect itself as a relay to an MNO, nor is there any scope for a locally operated MNO that can link itself into national & international circuits like is the case in some countries. A different approach is needed there to address mobile coverage blackspots.
jaffboy151
05-05-2016
Thanks to BT rolling out fibre in my village with tax payers money we now have access to rural fibre broadband......
Well..
We would if BT actually did it correctly, a whopping 50mbps during the day but a totally unstable unusable 2mbps between 4pm & 12am as BT refuse to upgrade the copper cable between the cabinet and this areas where 100+ new houses have been built and more on the way.. If it wasn't for my Vodafone 4g signal I'd be stuffed at night..
Three is none existent and EE is 2g only indoors but 60+ upstairs or outside.
As a rural user I don't expect Stella speeds but as Steve and Devon say we needs it to a least work as very basic things in life can now only be done online..
<<
<
2 of 2
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map