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Hillsborouģh |
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#276 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,435
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Quote:
Did any Forest fans give evidence? my friends were there and saw with their own eyes that the pubs and streets around the ground were packed with Liverpool fans. When the game started they all rushed foreward, what chance did the Police stand if they didn't open the gates.? The ones who died were innocent and nobody denies this, it was the crush behind which killed them. Were all the Liverpool fans innocent?
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#277 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,635
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No, it's eye witness account.
an eyewitness account of what could be a description of any other day at any other ground across the country..............so again what is so unusual about it........... |
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#278 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Liverpool/sarf London.
Posts: 11,742
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Am in Liverpool.now. ST George's Hall is packed.
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#279 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,468
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Can you imagine the outcry if the jury had returned a verdicy of accidental death or death by misadventure. I suspect that the Liverpool families would have demanded another inquest, but because they got the result they wanted they are singing outside the court !. I think to put most of the blame on one man is unjust, there were a number of factors which lead to this tragedy but it has to be said that the Police did themselves no favours by trying to cover up the truth. What I would like to know is if all the fans had got to the ground in plenty of time ie 30 mins before kick off, would this disaster still have happened, I'm not passing the blame onto any of the fans but has this question been addressed ?
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#280 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,693
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All these desperate....people....in here who are scrabbling around to deflect and evade and lay tricks...tell me why the police had to doctor so many of their own officers statements if they were above reproach and did not do wrong? Tell me why there were so many cowardly lies, and media briefing by scummer cops??
If they were innocent they would not have did that, and this is the real story, a dirty corrupt police force full of fat pigs at the top. The less said about Ingham the better. May he see his beloved thatcher very soon. |
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#281 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,635
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Quote:
Can you imagine the outcry if the jury had returned a verdicy of accidental death or death by misadventure. I suspect that the Liverpool families would have demanded another inquest, but because they got the result they wanted they are singing outside the court !. I think to put most of the blame on one man is unjust, there were a number of factors which lead to this tragedy but it has to be said that the Police did themselves no favours by trying to cover up the truth. What I would like to know is if all the fans had got to the ground in plenty of time ie 30 mins before kick off, would this disaster still have happened, I'm not passing the blame onto any of the fans but has this question been addressed ?
they did, and yet it still happened......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNS26Oj9B4o |
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#282 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,693
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Quote:
Can you imagine the outcry if the jury had returned a verdicy of accidental death or death by misadventure. I suspect that the Liverpool families would have demanded another inquest, but because they got the result they wanted they are singing outside the court !. I think to put most of the blame on one man is unjust, there were a number of factors which lead to this tragedy but it has to be said that the Police did themselves no favours by trying to cover up the truth. What I would like to know is if all the fans had got to the ground in plenty of time ie 30 mins before kick off, would this disaster still have happened, I'm not passing the blame onto any of the fans but has this question been addressed ?
Why do you care about hypothetical "what if the jury said something else"...THEY DIDN'T. DO you know why they didn't?? Because it was factually not true! We dont need to imagine what would have happened because it didnt happen that way. |
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#283 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,638
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Hard to believe that after:
* exposure of the police lies, massive statement doctoring and actual project to 'dirty' the fans, both dead and live, right up to telling Thatcher what filth they were * admittance and apology from the inept Duckenfield (who was probably under orders from corrupt authorities above him) * exposure of police indecision on the day, woeful safety procedure and provision, lack of emergency planning, fences that couldn't be unlocked to rescue trapped fans... and so on... there are still those who will blame those who died, those who tried to rescue their fellow supporters AND whinge about the families who battled to the end to get the truth told. No wonder it took the campaigners so long. |
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#284 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,126
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Quote:
Can you imagine the outcry if the jury had returned a verdicy of accidental death or death by misadventure. I suspect that the Liverpool families would have demanded another inquest, but because they got the result they wanted they are singing outside the court !. I think to put most of the blame on one man is unjust, there were a number of factors which lead to this tragedy but it has to be said that the Police did themselves no favours by trying to cover up the truth. What I would like to know is if all the fans had got to the ground in plenty of time ie 30 mins before kick off, would this disaster still have happened, I'm not passing the blame onto any of the fans but has this question been addressed ?
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#285 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,684
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Quote:
So blaming the fans. The fans that the jury said, after having seen all the evidence, were not to blame. The question didn't ask if the dead fans had any blame attached, but all the fans. The fans that the police herded down the tunnel towards the pen. The fans that didn't realise what horror was going to unfold. You can't blame people doing what they are directed to do by those who should be there to keep them safe.
And that is what you are doing. ![]() EDIT Quote from The Guardian: "2.59pm: Fans pour in, causing severe crushing in pens 3 and 4" Notice no mention of "herding" |
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#286 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,012
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David Conn from The Guardian has been following and reporting from the Inquest for the past 2 years and here is his definitive account.
I thought it couldn't shock me anymore, but it did. The Police failings are staggering. http://www.theguardian.com/football/...lasted-decades I hope today's outcome will give real comfort and closure to all those who've fought so hard for the truth. A massive well done to them. |
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#287 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 134
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An admission first, I am a Liverpool supporter and live in south Yorkshire. On thAt day, my husband and I drove to Liverpool to take something to my daughter who was at Uni there. We came back in time for the semi final, my husband was a forest supporter. We were delayed because of the road works on the M62 - ironic because this is what caused the supporters to be delayed and thus rushing to the ground.
The findings of the 2 year inquest, that the supporters were not to blame and that there were catastrophic failures by the emergency services is in. To disagree seems to me to be both unsupported by the evidence and contrary to what people who have given up 2 years of their life decided. To those who think differently, I would ask you to read, as I have done, every word of that inquest. Not a happy read, but an informative one. |
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#288 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,468
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Quote:
Yes I think it would. Apparently 10,000 plus people were trying to enter through just 7 turnstiles. According to the stats 2000 people had entered by 2pm. By 2.45pm there were 5,500 in with nearly the same number with tickets wating outside to get in. The progress through the turnstiles between 2.00pm and 2,45pm was described as slow but steady.
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#289 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 7,822
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Quote:
Did any Forest fans give evidence? my friends were there and saw with their own eyes that the pubs and streets around the ground were packed with Liverpool fans. When the game started they all rushed foreward, what chance did the Police stand if they didn't open the gates.? The ones who died were innocent and nobody denies this, it was the crush behind which killed them. Were all the Liverpool fans innocent?
And all those Liverpool supporters really should have known that they would cause the death of their fellow supporters by going to the pub before the game and then heading to the ground just before kick-off, because that never happens at any football game anywhere, ever! |
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#290 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,179
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Quote:
No you are not wrong. Nobody could have foreseen that on that day those events would have collided to cause tragedy. But these events usually are a perfect storm of a number of unlikely things coming together and causing tragedy.
The officer in charge on the day (Duckenfield) had never even been to the ground and hadn't bothered to familiarise himself with the layout. After the Bradford fire, a lot of people expressed the opinion that fenced terraces were dangerous in an emergency, but TPTB still thought the risk of a pitch invasion outweighed the risk to human life. |
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#291 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,179
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I would just like to think that if it happened to me, I would not be pursuing prosecutions of people who did not deliberately mean any harm to my loved one.
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#292 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
In fairness... This poster already has.
People are allowed to disagree with a finding of a jury. By saying a finding is fact suggests that every jury is correct. I don't really have an opinion either way with this case, however don't like seeing a poster condemned for simply giving an opinion. Im not an expert on 'unlawful killing' criteria, but I would have thought that there would be some premeditated attempts to harm and so I can understand why that part of the jury's decision is confusing. Obviously what we have all known for years has been officially confirmed today, that there were cover ups and lies by the police. |
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#293 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,012
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Quote:
Yes I think it would. Apparently 10,000 plus people were trying to enter through just 7 turnstiles. According to the stats 2000 people had entered by 2pm. By 2.45pm there were 5,500 in with nearly the same number with tickets wating outside to get in. The progress through the turnstiles between 2.00pm and 2,45pm was described as slow but steady.
http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/gary.shtm |
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#294 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,499
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18 million pound enquiry`! that could have been paid as compensation to families
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#295 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,446
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Quote:
Me too actually. I dont know why people have to call others 'trolls' (vastly over used word and usually, like in this case, in the wrong context) simply because they have a different view.
Im not an expert on 'unlawful killing' criteria, but I would have thought that there would be some premeditated attempts to harm and so I can understand why that part of the jury's decision is confusing. Obviously what we have all known for years has been officially confirmed today, that there were cover ups and lies by the police. As far as I am aware unlawful killing is a term for saying people were killed because other people failed in their duty. And that doesn't mean people meant to hurt others. More akin to manslaughter. |
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#296 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,229
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Quote:
Got MacKenzie wrong, but Bernard Ingham is still unrepentant - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...belled-7837120
Ingham's worse really, as being Thatcher's lap dog he would have been involved with the policy of putting up those blasted fences in the first place. |
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#297 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,446
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Quote:
Link
![]() EDIT Quote from The Guardian: "2.59pm: Fans pour in, causing severe crushing in pens 3 and 4" Notice no mention of "herding" |
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#298 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,638
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Quote:
Can you imagine the outcry if the jury had returned a verdicy of accidental death or death by misadventure. I suspect that the Liverpool families would have demanded another inquest, but because they got the result they wanted they are singing outside the court !. I think to put most of the blame on one man is unjust, there were a number of factors which lead to this tragedy but it has to be said that the Police did themselves no favours by trying to cover up the truth. What I would like to know is if all the fans had got to the ground in plenty of time ie 30 mins before kick off, would this disaster still have happened, I'm not passing the blame onto any of the fans but has this question been addressed ?
Now on to the timings of the arrival at the ground - I think you are still caught up in the myths put out. From the Guardian's extensive reporting - Supt Marshall at the inquest: ]Repeatedly played footage of the mass congestion that developed, Marshall admitted that it was a problem starting at 2.15pm, with thousands more people still arriving, and by 2.35pm, police had “completely lost control”. |
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#299 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,684
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Quote:
Me too actually. I dont know why people have to call others 'trolls' (vastly over used word and usually, like in this case, in the wrong context) simply because they have a different view.
Im not an expert on 'unlawful killing' criteria, but I would have thought that there would be some premeditated attempts to harm and so I can understand why that part of the jury's decision is confusing. Obviously what we have all known for years has been officially confirmed today, that there were cover ups and lies by the police. |
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#300 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 134
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will the lies never stop? Despite the truth, some people perpetuate the lies. If you are resonsibie fior them please stop and think about the families of the people who died. This is not a joke, it's about 96 who lost
their lives as a result of a catastrophic day. Please stop. |
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