The overcrowding outside the ground was already at crisis point 45 mins before the kick off. There was no rush forward outside the ground. 30 of the deaths were people who'd walked through Gate C after the police opened it about 10 mins before kick-off. In what way are they to blame for their own deaths ?

an eyewitness account of what could be a description of any other day at any other ground across the country..............so again what is so unusual about it...........

Am in Liverpool.now. ST George's Hall is packed.

Can you imagine the outcry if the jury had returned a verdicy of accidental death or death by misadventure. I suspect that the Liverpool families would have demanded another inquest, but because they got the result they wanted they are singing outside the court !. I think to put most of the blame on one man is unjust, there were a number of factors which lead to this tragedy but it has to be said that the Police did themselves no favours by trying to cover up the truth. What I would like to know is if all the fans had got to the ground in plenty of time ie 30 mins before kick off, would this disaster still have happened, I'm not passing the blame onto any of the fans but has this question been addressed ?

All these desperate....people....in here who are scrabbling around to deflect and evade and lay tricks...tell me why the police had to doctor so many of their own officers statements if they were above reproach and did not do wrong? Tell me why there were so many cowardly lies, and media briefing by scummer cops??

If they were innocent they would not have did that, and this is the real story, a dirty corrupt police force full of fat pigs at the top.

The less said about Ingham the better. May he see his beloved thatcher very soon.

they did, and yet it still happened.........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNS26Oj9B4o

Yes you are. I have seen you in these Hillsborough threads many times. IN the last inquiry you spent page after page deflecting and casting aspersions on Liverpool fans.

Why do you care about hypothetical "what if the jury said something else"...THEY DIDN'T. DO you know why they didn't?? Because it was factually not true! We dont need to imagine what would have happened because it didnt happen that way.

Hard to believe that after:
* exposure of the police lies, massive statement doctoring and actual project to 'dirty' the fans, both dead and live, right up to telling Thatcher what filth they were
* admittance and apology from the inept Duckenfield (who was probably under orders from corrupt authorities above him)
* exposure of police indecision on the day, woeful safety procedure and provision, lack of emergency planning, fences that couldn't be unlocked to rescue trapped fans...
and so on...

there are still those who will blame those who died, those who tried to rescue their fellow supporters AND whinge about the families who battled to the end to get the truth told.
No wonder it took the campaigners so long.

Yes I think it would. Apparently 10,000 plus people were trying to enter through just 7 turnstiles. According to the stats 2000 people had entered by 2pm. By 2.45pm there were 5,500 in with nearly the same number with tickets wating outside to get in. The progress through the turnstiles between 2.00pm and 2,45pm was described as slow but steady.

Link

EDIT

Quote from The Guardian:

"2.59pm: Fans pour in, causing severe crushing in pens 3 and 4"

Notice no mention of "herding"

Thanks, that's an excellent albeit harrowing, horrifying and heartbreaking read.

I hope today's outcome will give real comfort and closure to all those who've fought so hard for the truth. A massive well done to them.

An admission first, I am a Liverpool supporter and live in south Yorkshire. On thAt day, my husband and I drove to Liverpool to take something to my daughter who was at Uni there. We came back in time for the semi final, my husband was a forest supporter. We were delayed because of the road works on the M62 - ironic because this is what caused the supporters to be delayed and thus rushing to the ground.

The findings of the 2 year inquest, that the supporters were not to blame and that there were catastrophic failures by the emergency services is in. To disagree seems to me to be both unsupported by the evidence and contrary to what people who have given up 2 years of their life decided.

To those who think differently, I would ask you to read, as I have done, every word of that inquest. Not a happy read, but an informative one.

Thanks for that, nice to have a reasonable reply to a genuine question unlike some posters on here.

I wonder why they bothered with the inquest when they could have just asked your friends instead?

And all those Liverpool supporters really should have known that they would cause the death of their fellow supporters by going to the pub before the game and then heading to the ground just before kick-off, because that never happens at any football game anywhere, ever!

A lot of the things weren't unlikely though. The police superintendent who'd been in charge of matches at Hillsborough until shortly before the disaster had had to have the gate opened to ease crushes outside the ground on previous occasions. However, he had closed the tunnel that led to the 2 areas where people died before giving the order to open the gate. He'd had the foresight to see what the implications of not doing that could be. Had he still been in charge, the disaster may well not have happened.

The officer in charge on the day (Duckenfield) had never even been to the ground and hadn't bothered to familiarise himself with the layout.

After the Bradford fire, a lot of people expressed the opinion that fenced terraces were dangerous in an emergency, but TPTB still thought the risk of a pitch invasion outweighed the risk to human life.

Even if they'd lied and tried to cover up their reckless incompetence? I bloody well would.

Me too actually. I dont know why people have to call others 'trolls' (vastly over used word and usually, like in this case, in the wrong context) simply because they have a different view.

Im not an expert on 'unlawful killing' criteria, but I would have thought that there would be some premeditated attempts to harm and so I can understand why that part of the jury's decision is confusing. Obviously what we have all known for years has been officially confirmed today, that there were cover ups and lies by the police.

Hi An, I read this earlier today, it's a very simple but horribly vivid moment-by-moment account of one 17yr old boy's experience on the day. His description of the moment when he realised that his breathing had gone into panic mode made my heart beat faster and my blood run cold.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/gary.shtm

18 million pound enquiry`! that could have been paid as compensation to families

Premeditated attempts to harm would be murder.
As far as I am aware unlawful killing is a term for saying people were killed because other people failed in their duty. And that doesn't mean people meant to hurt others. More akin to manslaughter.

If he had any decency he would apologise and offer to meet the man that wrote that letter. (mind you I thought he had died years ago)

The fans were pouring into those pens because that is where they were being directed to.

Re your first part about imaginary outcry- in view of finally the exposure of all the lies over the years, an outcry would have been the right response to any other verdict. Hillsborough was a travesty of failure by the authorities, followed by a determined cover up of the truth.

Now on to the timings of the arrival at the ground - I think you are still caught up in the myths put out. From the Guardian's extensive reporting - Supt Marshall at the inquest:
]Repeatedly played footage of the mass congestion that developed, Marshall admitted that it was a problem starting at 2.15pm, with thousands more people still arriving, and by 2.35pm, police had “completely lost control”.

The Hillsborough jury is made up of 12 ordinary members of the public and like you, me and everybody else in this country they are not infallible. None of them are experts in Policing or Crowd Control and therefore their judgement is based on life experience and the evidence presented to them and the pressure of knowing that the relatives of the victims were awaiting their decision. I agree that it is not unacceptable for members to post comments on minor issues over which they disagree with the findings of the jury..

will the lies never stop? Despite the truth, some people perpetuate the lies. If you are resonsibie fior them please stop and think about the families of the people who died. This is not a joke, it's about 96 who lost
their lives as a result of a catastrophic day. Please stop.