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Old 26-04-2016, 13:02
SaturnV
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eh???


I'm not disagreeing with the jury, I'm firmly on the side of the victims, and the families of the victims

did you misread or just misunderstand my post?
Walterwhite:
“Why the hell have you brought the behaviour of fans and holliganism into a thread on Hillsborough?”

You: it is relevant though
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:02
academia
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Hopefully that'll be the last of it. You can moan, campaign and point the finger all you like, they won't be bought back alive. Move on.
They couldn't 'move on' (whatever that means) because of the lack of a fair investigation into events. What they should do or feel now, I wouldn't presume to dictate since I've never been through what they have.
But this thread is a tribute to truly staggering perseverance in the face of many obstacles. That's the most impressive memorial for the dead. They've done their lost family members proud.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:03
Elyan
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Football fans were all working class oiky scumbags who's welfare was not worth bothering with.

"I say Inspector, those yobs have the temerity to walk down the road wearing vulgar scarves! Can't you do anything about it?"

"I can Sir. Right away Sir. We'll sort them out Sir. 'Perkins - take twelve men and bash those football fans'."

"Good man."
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:04
Hugh Jboobs
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Why is there an upside down comma on the g in the thread title?
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:05
An Thropologist
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Why the hell have you brought the behaviour of fans and holliganism into a thread on Hillsborough?
Because post 2 said that fans were treated appalingly in the 80's. I agree. But if you want to change something you have to understand it in the round. Which means understanding the perception of those who were treating fans badly.

Also because I think the two things are wholly connected. I think if you treat people badly they behave badly for one thing.

I also think a lot of the non football going population had a perception that was that football fans were warring troublemakers. That may have been wrong or ill informed but it was very prevelant.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:05
Hobbit Feet
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Walterwhite:
“Why the hell have you brought the behaviour of fans and holliganism into a thread on Hillsborough?”

You: it is relevant though

wow - cherrypicked to make out I'm saying something I'm not

it is relevant for the reasons I outlined - I can't say it any more simply

the culture of the time contributed to the difficulty in gaining justice for the victims (imo)

it made it easy to finger point in the wrong direction
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:08
Osusana
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It's what the coroner deemed to be acceptable, not good enough for you?Don't start on the compo nonsense, you'd have to be spectacularly and willfully uninformed to think that has been a motivator in this case.
I will never believe that anyone could foresee what would happen as result of their actions on that day, therefore I will never believe that people were "killed".
I'm with the 2 out of 9 on that one.
What I believe is not important in the great scheme of things
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:10
Osusana
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BIB - on whether the fans contributed to what happened the jury unanimously said that they didn't. The only question on which a majority verdict was needed was whether or not they were unlawfully killed.
That's the only bit I have a problem with
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:11
Heavenly
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David Conn from The Guardian has been following and reporting from the Inquest for the past 2 years and here is his definitive account.

I thought it couldn't shock me anymore, but it did. The Police failings are staggering.


http://www.theguardian.com/football/...lasted-decades
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:11
SaturnV
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I will never believe that anyone could foresee what would happen as result of their actions on that day, therefore I will never believe that people were "killed".
I'm with the 2 out of 9 on that one.
Fair enough, you clutch to those straws.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:12
An Thropologist
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I will never believe that anyone could foresee what would happen as result of their actions on that day, therefore I will never believe that people were "killed".
I'm with the 2 out of 9 on that one.
I think after Bradford it was very obvious indeed that penning spectators in was an accident (of some sort) waiting to happen.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:12
Elvisfan4eva
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Yawn!! Yawn! Now the relatives have got what they wanted, they should move on and there should absolutely be no prosecutions. It won't bring the 96 back. Most of the country is sick to the back teeth of hearing the H word.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:12
Vodka_Drinka
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Hopefully that'll be the last of it. You can moan, campaign and point the finger all you like, they won't be bought back alive. Move on.
Nowhere near the end. There will be criminal cases to answer to now.

I think if someone you loved was unlawfully killed, you'd want to get to the bottom of it and would want to see those responsible held to account.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:13
Landis
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Does this thread have the potential for "hating" of the victims and their families? That would be very sad.
But it would not be a great surprise.
We have a " Migrant discussion" thread on page one of this forum which has turned into a hate filled rant against Refugees and Migrants.

All human life is here. Unfortunately.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:13
SaturnV
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wow - cherrypicked to make out I'm saying something I'm not

it is relevant for the reasons I outlined - I can't say it any more simply

the culture of the time contributed to the difficulty in gaining justice for the victims (imo)

it made it easy to finger point in the wrong direction
My apologies, distracted by the trolls on here.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:15
Osusana
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Fair enough, you clutch to those straws.
I think after Bradford it was very obvious indeed that penning spectators in was an accident (of some sort) waiting to happen.
Ok I'm wrong,
My opinion is irrelevant in the end
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:15
Hobbit Feet
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My apologies, distracted by the trolls on here.
it's fine

misunderstandings happen
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:15
Elvisfan4eva
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Must add that it's quite telling that it wasn't a unanimous verdict.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:15
lockes no 1 fan
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Yawn!! Yawn! Now the relatives have got what they wanted, they should move on and there should absolutely be no prosecutions. It won't bring the 96 back. Most of the country is sick to the back teeth of hearing the H word.
Let me guess.............you read the sun
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:15
academia
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[quote=Osusana;82228746]It wasn't unanimous



Don't forget the lengthy queue for compensation...[/QUOTE

Cheap cynicism is terribly fashionable these days; sometimes it is even justified. But not here - who battles on for 27 years for a few quid? No, the families were fighting for the truth and for a justice that few other people cared about. Their dogged determination has been spectacular and I am impressed by it and glad they got there in the end.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:16
lockes no 1 fan
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Must add that it's quite telling that it wasn't a unanimous verdict.
what does it telll you?
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:16
marjangles
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I will never believe that anyone could foresee what would happen as result of their actions on that day, therefore I will never believe that people were "killed".
I'm with the 2 out of 9 on that one.
What I believe is not important in the great scheme of things
They didn't have to foresee anything. For negligent manslaughter there are four requirements: that a duty of care is owed, that the duty was breached, that the breach caused death and that the negligence that led to the breach was gross (a blatant disregard to the life and safety of others to such a degree that it requires punishment).

To me the first three criteria are very obviously fulfilled, the fourth I can understand some doubt but for me it is fulfilled also.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:16
Elvisfan4eva
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I will never believe that anyone could foresee what would happen as result of their actions on that day, therefore I will never believe that people were "killed".
I'm with the 2 out of 9 on that one.
Me too. Yes, the police made mistakes but those fans weren't unlawfully killed in my opinion.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:17
SaturnV
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Yawn!! Yawn! Now the relatives have got what they wanted, they should move on and there should absolutely be no prosecutions. It won't bring the 96 back. Most of the country is sick to the back teeth of hearing the H word.
You should have left your first version of your post as it was. No need to flaunt your spite.
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Old 26-04-2016, 13:18
Grafenwalder
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I'm surprised it didn't happen more often given the state of English football grounds in those days, like something out of the stone age.

I notice the FA have got away scot free as per usual, I still believe there were grounds available far more suitable for that match than Hillsborough and the ticket allocation seemed to me to be a factor too.

An 'accident' waiting to happen.
I'd agree with that even though i'm not a football fan. I could never understand the mentality behind crowds packed on to terraces standing behind metal bars, yet peculiarly for some that was what they wanted. Perhaps some footie fans from bygone days can explain the 'attraction' of that as i'm afraid i never could understand it.

Thankfully Hillsborough put an end to it yet only four years earlier 56 people had been killed at the Bradford City FC fire. An antiquated stand made primarily of wood with piles of litter underneath which had been left to gather over the years. That was a ticking time bomb.

I'm glad about the inquest result which imo was the right verdict.

Me too. Yes, the police made mistakes but those fans weren't unlawfully killed in my opinion.
What reasons were they lawfully killed then?
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