I can't help but wonder if the pendulum has swung the other way and to much blame is being put on the emergency services.

The gates were open to prevent a possible crush outside, I am sure the iverpool fans were not stood in an orderly queue as the game was about to start. Tragically there was an oversight and no one shut a gate inside.

The reason for the crush was the stamped of the crowd so how can the it be said that there was no blame on the fans.

If I pushed you over in the street because I was in a hurry, whose fault would it be.

Having said that I was at Hillsborough weeks before that tragedy, it was a nightmare to get in, the police struggled to maintain order, we ended , up crushed against a wall by a police horse,

It only became conservative supporting in the early 80s (or more correctly 1979 when Thatcher was running. It remained at least nominally inclined to Labour during the 70s.

It became voraciously Tory with MacKenzie at the helm.

For the sport - particularly the football and horse racing pages.

Sad to see some people still repeating establishment lies.

Andy Burnham has just brought up the similarities to Orgreave. There's no way there's NOT going to be a full public inquiry now. I hope those present (including those on these boards) have their stories straight....

Actually I believe it has been overtaken by the Daily Mail.

Not sure whether that's a good or bad thing.

which I think is a sad fact of todays society really, I would feel embarrassed to admit I read it, never mind going into a shop and buying it

The Sun is popularist and swings it's allegiance in line with public mood. It swung Labour in 90's and remained so until they were not going to win in 2010.

This stuff about Hillsborough was actually playing to a popular sentiment at the time of football hooliganism. Got it so wrong but they were just doing their 'dog whistle' coverage. Today it's migrants and EU.

As not having it on front page they were damned if they did damned if they didn't. They would be just as much condemnation if they had run story.

I think page 3 in no small way contributed to it's popularity too

If you read the evidence you would be proven wrong, the fans were not to blame so you just have to deal with it

How is he being made a scapegoat? AFAIA, he was ultimately in charge of every police officer there that day. Their action, or in-action, came from him, whether directly or in-directly through the officers below him. With rank comes the 'privilege' of no longer having to get your hands dirty, but it also means you have to carry the can for what those under your command do, and if those under him didn't act appropriately in this situation, it's because they weren't commanded properly, which was Duckenfield's job.

Any subsequent issues that arose need to be investigated as well as, not instead of, his failings on that day.

This article may be educational to some:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...can-be-avoided

"When the density is higher -
at about six people per square metre - bodies are jammed together so tightly that they can no longer choose where they go and they begin to behave like a fluid. Pressure waves can travel through them and they lose control."

In relation to what I said, I was correct. The horses went in following missile throwing, and warnings.

At Orgreave, there were Forces from all over the country, and I saw the missiles flying over a long period of time. It is also a fact that a mass picket was arranged for that day (and week), to try and win the strike.

There was no master plan to stitch anyone up, and it is clear some of the violence from both sides was unacceptable.

I had no involvement in what went on afterwards, but it wasn't as simple on the day as some try to portray it.

As my Dad said last night FA have responsibility in this. The semi final should never have been at Hillsborough. The issues which escalated that day were known.

For me the issue that needs investigating from top to tail are the people in positions of authority who told lies about what happened to save their own necks......absolutely criminal and should be 100% treated as such even after such a long time afterwards.

Why it takes so long for these issues to get finally sorted time after time is another mystery to me.

They were, and that issue seems to be mainly ignored.

With that reasoning, why wasn't there a crush at every single football match? The cages weren't just set up for that particular match at that particular venue. Clearly something different happened at this match leading to the deaths of the 96 fans.

After 2 years of considering all the evidence, and after new admissions from some of the people involved, together with the recovery of information previously hidden (e.g. doctored statements where police officers stated they felt organisational failures that day by their own force had caused the crush), a jury has decided unanimously that the fans were not to blame for the incident, and have found the various authorities liable for unlawful killing by a majority verdict.

The authorities have acknowledged the verdict and made apologies, and the CPS will now consider whether action is to be taken, and if so, against whom.

Yeah. And it was an IRA gunman who fired the first shot on Bloody Sunday....

(The stupid thing is, even after that has been shown not to be the case, people still believe it because the alternative is too inconvenient.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmcQ1WJkpZE

still reduces you to tear s

Aren't there other enquiries running which will look further than just accountability on that specific day. Inquest has concentrated on that so it becomes a police operational failure.

Thing is, you couldn't have a proper inquiry into the police in the 80s because Thatcher used them to enforce unpopular policies.

They were thought untouchable in the 'tough on crime' 90s.

Now we have a home secretary who is not only willing to take them on; she's intent on it.

They got it wrong because they believed the lies peddled by the police. The police lied to the general public, they lied in a briefing given to the Prime Minister, they even lied to the inquest which ended yesterday. Personally, given the information that they had from what should have been a trusted source I don't really blame The Sun.

One good thing is that Theresa May is very likely to sort out the police out. she won't take any of their nonsense.

Who has shown that the horses went in before any missiles were thrown?

The horses weren't even there when the first missiles were lobbed, early in the morning.

I dont have to believe anything in relation to this that people claim, because I was there, and saw it.

So did all those paras on that day in 1972. They were there. They know the IRA shot first.

They lied.

Meanwhile the criminals rub their hands with glee..