Oh joy

What s the betting the feeble CPS come back and say no prosecutions -no fair trail not in public interest etc etc any excuse

There will be prosecutions and a trial but they will be purposefully weak to ensure no convictions.

I've no reason to lie. I was there from early in the morning. Missiles were lobbed continually. The horses were not even there then.

The BBC had problems with their camera, and they had to show the footage out of sequence. Nothing sinister at all.

No. Manslaughter is where you cause a death (or deaths) as a result of some other crime. People in positions of statutory authority have certain legal duties of care, and to not undertake them is a criminal offence. If that leads to death, it is manslaughter.

Didn't you police the miners strike? if am wrong then I apologize.
You obviously know the facts but your conveniently ignoring many damming facts.
What about the collapsed trial of those miners.
How the chief constable of SYP brought riot charges against them to try and send them down for 30yrs each and you say there was no plan to stich anyone up.
The evidence was fabricated, it was forged, that was proven beyond doubt at the trial of the miners.
Police officers committed perjury at the trial that was proven at the trial.
Damming evidence was stolen from inside the court, that was unbelievable but true.
The court broke to bring in an expert to identify an officers signature, when the court resumed the document had been stolen. luckily enough someone had made a photo copy. this was examined and shown to be a forged signature.
Anyway, this is now all being investigated and everything ive said was known years ago yet your still saying there was no stitch up.
No officer has ever been charged for perjury yet the judges remarks were damming.

You do realise this sounds suspiciously along the lines of 'drunken, ticketless fans' don't you?

Corporate Manslaughter only became law in 2008, l don't see how they can apply this to a historical case.

No. It is simply true. A good mate of mine was hit on the helmet with a large stone, which made a huge dent. This was well before the horses were even there.

It was placed on his coffin a couple of years ago when he died.

Sorry this doesn't fit the the re-write of history.

I can acknowledge there was a mess afterwards, but the basic facts of how the trouble started that day cant be changed, however desperate you are to do so.

Gross negligence manslaughter has existed for many, many years though.

And Duckenfield was originally prosecuted (under a private prosecution) for manslaughter in 2000. It resulted in a hung jury.

That's a really interesting read, thanks for that. A few other points stood out for me:

"The aim is to prevent dangerous densities from building up". One thing that struck me about the TV footage is just how densely populated Pens 3 and 4 were compared to the surrounding pens http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incomi...615b/pitch.jpg That is a direct result of the crowd not being adequately being directed - they were all sent down one tunnel leading to the two pens - in that event, where else could they go?

"People don’t die because they panic. They panic because they are dying". That explains what people think is a 'mob mentality'. They're reacting to their situation, not causing it.

"Crushes are wholly “preventable, predictable and avoidable” I believe that the previous match commander, Mole had a pretty good handle on the dynamics of the Hillsborough stadium, how to channel the crowd correctly, and had he been in charge that day, I don't think that crush would have occurred. SYP were responsible for putting someone in charge of that match who lacked the relevant experience, and his and their failings led to the deaths of the 96 fans.

and you do realise that this sounds suspiciously like you using the tragedy of Hillsborough to attack a fellow poster about an unrelated matter

if missiles were being launched they could have been hoardings been torn down to try and make room for the fans to get on the pitch

Didn't the same teams play a similar match the year before at Hillsborough, the difference being that a different man - one with years of experience - had been in charge? By all accounts the policing was organised, the crowd control coordinated and no problems occurred.

I read the witness accounts on one of the links posted earlier in the thread, one of the witnesses talks about being there the year before - there had been checks of tickets further down the street, there had been police everywhere, it was organised, there were no problems. "I did notice that unlike the previous season there were no police stops on the way to the ground with a check for tickets etc but thought nothing of it." Damian Kavanagh http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/kav.shtm

Many accounts said the lack of police presence and organisation was noticeably different this time around.

In 1981, there was a massive crush in the same stand, and the gates to the pitch had to be opened to allow fans to escape onto it. This took place at half time. Luckily someone saw the problem, and acted.

This is why it is so strange that ground continued to be used.

Andy Burnham who to be fair to him has been fighting for the families for years despite opposition from on high made a cracking speech in the HOC.

Well done to him.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...arebar_twitter

Twenty-seven years of Hillsborough anger boiled over the House of Commons today as MPs applauded a visceral speech by Andy Burnham.



"Millions of pounds of public money were spent retelling discredited lies against Liverpool supporters," he said in a furious attack on South Yorkshire Police.

I would question that bit in italics! 'newspaper' is something the Scum certainly is not and never was. it is just a useless few sheets of paper on which is printed trash and lies. Like most of them these days. But at least it used to be able to poke fun at itself.

I actually do agree that today the Scum would be in the wrong whatever they did. I do believe that leaving the front page free from Hillsborough was probably for the best as anything else would have elicited cries of 'hypocrites' from the general public.

Still will never purchase the rotten thing. What it did in the days after Hillsborough was obscene, vile and deserves all the opprobrium it has been given.

As for the jury's findings, I am very pleased for the victims' families, for the other fans on the day (who were NOT responsible in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM for what happened and for even a smidgeon of blame to be attributed to them is absolutely wrong and those singling them out should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves) and for those who tried to help.

The fans outside the ground did not seem to be drunk or in any way incapable or acting badly. They were simply fans trying to get through the turnstiles with their tickets into the ground. That they were then funnelled through into the pens where the tragedy occurred was ENTIRELY the fault of Duckinfield and others on the day.

It will never bring back the 96. And those who were there will have to continue living with the images they saw that day forever. But at least now there may be some sort of closure.

I'm not a football fan (not since the 70s) and I do remember the drunkenness and hooliganism of that and the later 80s era. However, that is NO excuse to label those who were at that particular match with those labels - especially as from what we have all seen and heard it was very far removed from the truth.

I hope all who lied and covered up and subjugated the truth for so long are thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Why are some people so horrible be happy for the family,s and the city who had to put up with so much abuse I cried,but I did say you would get the idiots on, money means nothing.rip,it will take us 5 hours to get to Liverpool tonight for the vigil but just to let the family,s and Liverpool know we are so thankful for the truth,any trolls on here should be banned and ashamed.

It's position in the country for travelling fans is my guess. It's suitability seems to have come third behind ease of access / money.

After the problems in '81 Hillsborough wasn't used again for a semi until the 87 match between Coventry and Leeds. In 87 the kick off was delayed by 15 mins as the police had trouble processing the fans through the limited amount of turnstiles. In 87 there was also crushing in the tunnel and the central pens.

Sheff Wed had plans to re-organise the Leppings Lane end to prevent these problems continuing but abandoned them on grounds of cost - £150,000 I think the figure was

He was not posted to be in charge of the game. He was posted to be in charge of the Police division where the ground was located. The ground would then automatically be his responsibility.


Agreed


I don't see any similarity.

Hillsborough was a venue for a FA cup semi final where fans lawfully bought tickets and turned up for the game

Orgreave was the scene of mass illegal picketing. None of the 'pickets' should have even been there.

How the hell did it have a safety certificate? Hmm.... who provided it? Don't tell me FA / City Council / Sheffield Wednesday decided it would all be OK.

Yes, to her credit I thought Theresa May made a very fair speech as well. But Andy Burnham's speech was simply outstanding. Just listening to it live on the radio made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. It's not often you hear such genuine passion from a politician. He's risen a hundredfold in my estimation after that.

You are aware that this was the SECOND inquest into Hillsborough? By your reckoning, no one should have ever questioned the FIRST one.

the first one was A PROVEN WHITEWASH with evidence withheld and testimony cut of by the 3.15 deadline.

I dont want to sound brutal but you are being to look a little bit sad, listen to what was said in parliament today you may just then become aware at the extent of this cover up