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Hillsborouģh
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Eater Sundae
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by Hobbit Feet:
“perhaps you wouldn't

but then if your 'loved one' was painted as something that you knew they weren't, and the authorities were lying and then lying some more to cover their arses, you might not have quite the same attitude”

Any subsequent lying and cover ups is very serious and should and must be followed up. However, it is completely irrelevant when considering what actions or omissions lead to the 96 deaths. They are two separate issues.

Any subsequent trial based on the unlawful killing decision should take into account whether those in authority acted in good faith (ie doing what they thought was the best decision), also other aspects such as training - were officers even higher up in the command structure correct in giving the match control duties to the people they did, and were they given enough support.
Amethyzt
26-04-2016
Finally - Justice.

Now let the CPS get on with what should have been done years ago.

YNWA JFT96
wns_195
26-04-2016
When people blame fans, they often refer to fans being intoxicated by alcohol. Had nobody who didn't have a ticket gone to the match, the disaster wouldn't have happened. That is a fact.

People still attend away matches without buying tickets before they set off. Luckily this hasn't led to tragedy but it could do one day.

There are also football fans who want to bring back standing, and groun ds in the lower leagues that are not all-seater.
Osusana
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by walterwhite:
“The jurors listened to 2 years of evidence, a lot of which has not been made public.

So frankly your opinion is completely worthless.”

I said that, so cheers for pointing out my own words
walterwhite
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by wns_195:
“When people blame fans, they often refer to fans being intoxicated by alcohol. Had nobody who didn't have a ticket gone to the match, the disaster wouldn't have happened. That is a fact.

People still attend away matches without buying tickets before they set off. Luckily this hasn't led to tragedy but it could do one day.

There are also football fans who want to bring back standing, and groun ds in the lower leagues that are not all-seater.”

Is it a fact though? How many people went to Hillsborough without a ticket?

Sounds like you are blaming the fans to me.
Eater Sundae
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by anais32:
“It's not just that the police actions may have caused it; there axppears to have been a deliberate attempt to not only cover up potential criminal conduct; but an attempt to place the blame on the victims. They collaborated with their mates in the scum press to do this.

And a drunk driver doesn't deliberately mean any harm.”

That is totally irrelevant when considering what caused the deaths on the day.
walterwhite
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“I said that, so cheers for pointing out my own words”

Well why are you giving an opinion that you know is absolute rubbish?
cantos
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by walterwhite:
“Pathetic comment.”

Why? Is that not true , or where they all saints?
An Thropologist
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“I would just like to think that if it happened to me, I would not be pursuing prosecutions of people who did not deliberately mean any harm to my loved one.
An eye for an eye is not always justice in my world”

Mine neither. If we were all prosecuted when we did our jobs badly on occasion most of us would spend some years in prision I suspect. Nevertheless systemic failinsg are something that interest me and are something well worth looking at and understanding. But you need to look at all facets to do that, even those that some find distasteful. And sometimes you need to look without seeking to aportion blame.
lockes no 1 fan
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“That is totally irrelevant when considering what caused the deaths on the day.”


How, its not a separate entity, the lies and stories that followed were constructed to COVER UP failures, what does that tell you?
MR_Pitkin
26-04-2016
[quote=academia;82228903]
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“It wasn't unanimous



Don't forget the lengthy queue for compensation...[/QUOTE

Cheap cynicism is terribly fashionable these days; sometimes it is even justified. But not here - who battles on for 27 years for a few quid? No, the families were fighting for the truth and for a justice that few other people cared about. Their dogged determination has been spectacular and I am impressed by it and glad they got there in the end.”

So you're telling me no civil cases for compensation will now not follow?
lockes no 1 fan
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by cantos:
“Why? Is that not true , or where they all saints?”

Have you watched the verdicts and the questions the Jurors had to answer or cant you get past the propaganda that the papers spewed out
walterwhite
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by cantos:
“Why? Is that not true , or where they all saints?”

No it's not true. How many 'boozed up' and 'ticketless' fans were there?
jeffiner1892
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“Mine neither. If we were all prosecuted when we did our jobs badly on occasion most of us would spend some years in prision I suspect. Nevertheless systemic failinsg are something that interest me and are something well worth looking at and understanding. But you need to look at all facets to do that, even those that some find distasteful. And sometimes you need to look without seeking to aportion blame.”

There's a difference between doing a job badly and deliberately covering up what happened.

The times of deaths of so many is telling, so many after the 3.15pm cut off.
academia
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by cantos:
“Why? Is that not true , or where they all saints?”

Saint or sinner they're all dead when they didn't have to be. Luckily they had families who took on the Herculean task of digging out the truth of what happened. They have done well by their lost ones - good on them.
seacam
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“Mine neither. If we were all prosecuted when we did our jobs badly on occasion most of us would spend some years in prision I suspect. Nevertheless systemic failinsg are something that interest me and are something well worth looking at and understanding. But you need to look at all facets to do that, even those that some find distasteful. And sometimes you need to look without seeking to aportion blame.”

Cover ups, police statements altered, lies and falsehoods spread are not systemic failings-----or maybe they are!
lockes no 1 fan
26-04-2016
[quote=MR_Pitkin;82229314]
Originally Posted by academia:
“
So you're telling me no civil cases for compensation will now not follow?”

would it matter if there was?, would it change the fact that these families have been to hell and back to clear their loved ones name and find out exactly how their love ones died.
codeblue
26-04-2016
[quote=MR_Pitkin;82229314]
Originally Posted by academia:
“
So you're telling me no civil cases for compensation will now not follow?”

No need to be that cynical.

I am sure that any civil compensation awarded, paid by the taxpayers of the UK, will be donated by the families to charity and good causes.
walterwhite
26-04-2016
Reading that Guardian article, they may as well have plucked a random stranger off the street and put them in charge. I hope Duckenfield for one feels the full weight of the law.
walterwhite
26-04-2016
[quote=codeblue;82229344]
Originally Posted by MR_Pitkin:
“
No need to be that cynical.

I am sure that any civil compensation awarded, paid by the taxpayers of the UK, will be donated by the families to charity and good causes.”

Do your trolling elsewhere Codeblue.
Osusana
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by walterwhite:
“Well why are you giving an opinion that you know is absolute rubbish?”

Not up for personal debate, not relevant to this thread
Eater Sundae
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by lockes no 1 fan:
“How, its not a separate entity, the lies and stories that followed were constructed to COVER UP failures, what does that tell you?”

It tells me people were scared and trying to cover their backsides. Nothing more.

None of the 96 would be alive now if there had not been a cover up.
walterwhite
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by Eater Sundae:
“It tells me people were scared and trying to cover their backsides. Nothing more.

None of the 96 would be alive now if there had not been a cover up.”

Yeah i'd be pretty scared if my actions had directly lead to the deaths of 96 innocent people.
BanglaRoad
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by ChipPaper:
“Let's be honest, the result was only going to come back one way regardless. Could you imagine the public response had the jury delivered a different verdict? Hardly the fairest, most objective of trials, was it?”

It wasn't a trial, it was an inquiry and what was unfair about it?
anais32
26-04-2016
Originally Posted by tiacat:
“I would agree it is relevant too, for all the reasons that have been cited. The context at the time was one in which fans were blamed for being fans. This lie could remain in place because of the behaviour of other fans at the time, it made it easy for some people to believe. It made it easy for the police to blame them and get away with blaming them.”

The problem here though is that everything here was televised. People who saw the coverage KNEW the police story was lies. Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies and more lies.
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