The fans were killed unlawfully. Liverpool fans had nothing to do with the cause of any of the deaths.

Glad they got the deserved verdict, I was a fan who attended matches back in the '80's when you were on the terraces behind the fences. I have been scared at matches when people at the back of the stand would move forward or just the sheer amount of people there. The scariest part for me was realising that because me and my mate were small, fellow West Brom fans would let us stand at the front near the fence, meaning we would almost certainly been killed or seriously injured if something like that at our ground.

Sadly Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen, the crush in the pens and the fact that the police did treat you badly back then.

Whatever anyone thinks about the verdict, you can't get beyond the fact that 96 people didn't come home from a football match and that should never, ever happen. Well done to the families for proving that their loved ones were not to blame.

Justice for the 96.
YNWA

I have 2 small issues with it. When you look at the findings they blame literally everyone. Which is fine but all these years on its easy to view things with hindsight. Often the issue with cases like this we apply today's standards to events back then. The problem is of course is it isn't that simple. The best thing to come from those events were that lessons were learnt. That's not excusing criminal behaviour that occurred by the way, just some of it would have been incompetence which is far easier to recognise now days.

With regards to the fans being to blame it's a difficult one for me. If a 1000 people pack into a train platform and only 500 are allowed on the train. 500 jump on and 100 extra push in who is to blame? You could argue the company, the driver and those that pushed on. The fact they were allowed to do so is obviously fault of the train driver and train company, however the 100 should have recognised they were crushing people and causing difficulty.

But hey that's just an opinion to a small element of the case of which I will no doubt be shot down for.

Yet some people persist in blaming them. Sad that after all these years people still think drunk and ticketless fans caused the disaster. Best thing is to challenge them and watch them disappear when their idiocy is exposed.

This is a forum - not a court of law.

what? I suggest you go and read the evidence, I cant be bothered

But fans with tickets were just trying to get into the ground. The fact that the officer in charge had no knowledge of any safety procedures and just panicked and opened the gate is irrefutable. The fact that no effort was made to stop people entering the same pens is irrefutable. The videos of the day show huge gaps in the pens either side, there was plenty of room in them.

It wasn't a trial, it was an inquest. There is a difference. Nobody is under oath when they give evidence and no sentences are handed out as a result of any verdict. The Coroner is not a judge. These are just a couple of differences between an inquest and a trial.

But, having said that, it is a part of due process and as one door closes another opens. Now that a verdict of Unlawful Killing has been returned, the Crown Prosecution Service must decide what charges (if any) are brought, and upon whom. This process could have a lot of mileage left in it yet.

As for any allegation of bias, well, I rather take the view that in light of the first inquest being a shameless whitewash, what this verdict achieved was to produce the outcome that the first inquest, had it been conducted fairly and honestly, would have come to in the first place.

Too many people lied, distorted the evidence, concealed salient facts and generally tried to exonerate themselves of any responsibility. It took the persistence and determination of those who lost loved ones to not let the matter drop to bring about today's verdict.

Does anybody really think that those bereaved families wanted to have to go through all this..? Do you not think they would have wanted justice in the first place, so they could lay their loved ones to rest and get on with cherishing their memories..?

For goodness sake, people.... this is not a game being played out for public entertainment. It is a genuine search for the truth, and the justice that will come with the light being shone on what really happened on that day. And those culpable must stand trial for their wrongdoing.

The families want justice for their lost loved ones. And we, as the people of a just and civilised nation owe them that.

Justice for the 96.

what difference does that make if you have a very very controversial opinion then back it up to open debate, you don't just 'know' something do you!

Strange comment.

Still waiting for figures on ticketless fans from you. There is very little evidence there were any ticketless fans, there is lots of evidence that the Leppings Lane End was actually under capacity though.

Police Officers Federation claiming the Nuremburg defence, 'our members were only following orders'.

Now who was it started the rumour about fans urinating on the dead? Were they following orders?

I think you'll find they are.

sorry but that shows in your comments, that you have no idea what exactly went on that day

What because I have a slightly different opinion to you? It's an opinion, that's it. Deal with it.

You're using an irrelevant and different analogy to try to support your opinion. Another strawman.

Why not stick to the real case and facts of fans being directed down a tunnel where they had no idea of the problem at the front?

Discussion is about thinking - not knowing. Forums are not fact libraries. As this is a forum, you don't have to have read long documents, academic material or legislation before you post your opinion. Your opinion doesn't even have to be influenced by long documents, academic material or legislation.

I doubt any of us do. it is far too complex to sum up in a forum such as this.

I've said before about similar issues at the 1981 semi final, when I was there, and luckily the gates to the pitch at that end were opened to prevent a crush. Why were semi finals allowed there again, without massive change?

The planning was nothing like that done today, which was a symptom of the time. The Police commander was out of his depth, and he's carrying the can, but who put him there?

Many factors were involved.

an opinion based on what though.........show your evidence, how many times do you have to be asked to back up your opinions, they have not just popped into your head you MUST have a reason for that opinion

I was once nearly pushed off a railway platform in front of an incoming train due to the pressure of commuters, waiting 8 deep, behind me eager to grab a seat once the train was stationary. Who would have been to blame if I had fallen....the railway company alone or the commuters pushing forward furthest from the platform edge?

and thinking does not just arise from some unknowable facts, you must have facts to form an opinion so what are yours?

I Actually cannot believe what I am reading.......

I disagree, I think it would almost certainly have been the same result and perhaps even a unanimous verdict as the events were then fresher in the mind.

To my mind, the actions of Duckenfield and his superiors on the lead up to the match and during it were such egregious breaches of the police's duty of care that they can only be described as gross negligence.

Yes but surely your opinion is formed based on something?

Yours appears to be formed based on the Sun headline the day after the event.

Again, please answer the question about ticketless fans.

I gave the reason why I had that train of thought. One poster felt it illogical which is fair enough if that's what they believe.

As stated we are viewing an incident many many years on where hindsight is a wonderful thing and at a time where health and safety measures are extremely tight, therefore it's easy to find wrong doings.

Those that acted illegally in the aftermath were very very wrong. Some of it I believe was down to incompetence and lack of knowledge.

This should be the beginning.

The scurrilous and self-serving behaviour of SYP towards the grieving families, the institutional pursuit of evidence to denigrate witnesses that contradicted their official version of the events, and the chronic and entrenched mendacity of the Force and their cohorts are a national disgrace.