Moto G4 and Moto G4 Plus 2016

1manonthebog · 09-07-2016, 15:42

The G4 seems a bit of a disaster to be fair, its not overly cheap anymore, no NFC and the crappy processor seems to be the weakest link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1xkXdCMleg Watch the lag towards the end of this video, yes its a budget phone but I mean it shouldn't act like that,

alanwarwic · 09-07-2016, 15:50

You are referring to the bug, only in the Plus, after using the camera mode for a long time.

A bit of an overstatement but I get the impression that this thread is 100% littered with them.

Michael09 · 09-07-2016, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

You are referring to the bug, only in the Plus, after using the camera mode for a long time.

A bit of an overstatement but I get the impression that this thread is 100% littered with them.

Totally Agree, was worried as I have ordered the 32GB Standard Moto G4, after owning the original 1st Gen & currently the 3rd Gen. Having read a lot of forum posts it is the G4 Plus that is facing the overheat issue, a little odd considering they both have the same internals, albeit a slightly higher MP camera. Both of my previous G's did occasionally get a little hot but it never seemed to affect performance. Of course I'll post an update later in the week when I've received mine and had a chance to play with it

jonmorris · 09-07-2016, 18:08

I've got a couple of Snapdragon 61n devices and they both get hot and lag for no plausible reason: Honor 5X and Wileyfox Storm.

The thing is, the SoC isn't underpowered. It's clearly a thermal issue, just like Snapdragon 810 (and to a degree 820 and even this year's 652).

I'm not entirely sold on MediaTek but it does seem that they don't get so hot, and the Huawei chips also seem to cope with taking photos and video without melting.

It makes a huge difference to battery performance.

Michael09 · 09-07-2016, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I've got a couple of Snapdragon 61n devices and they both get hot and lag for no plausible reason: Honor 5X and Wileyfox Storm.

The thing is, the SoC isn't underpowered. It's clearly a thermal issue, just like Snapdragon 810 (and to a degree 820 and even this year's 652).

I'm not entirely sold on MediaTek but it does seem that they don't get so hot, and the Huawei chips also seem to cope with taking photos and video without melting.

It makes a huge difference to battery performance.

I briefly had the Honor 5C, but couldn't get on with the UI, including occasional lag in menus and various other little niggles, however its strongest point was its battery life. I think this is down to the fact that Huawei used its own brand Kirin chipset in the device which must be pretty efficient. Shame, as if it had vanilla android I would've been super happy with the device.

Apologies for going off topic, it seems Lenovo needs to put more effort into fine tuning the internals of it's devices, rather than going for the cheapest option.

jonmorris · 09-07-2016, 20:40

The 5C is definitely the best performer at its price point, but EMUI certainly is like marmite.

The new EMUI (V5?) will apparently look a lot more like vanilla Android, or at least have the option to be, but history suggests it wouldn't necessarily be something as part of an OS update - just for new models.

Michael09 · 09-07-2016, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

The 5C is definitely the best performer at its price point, but EMUI certainly is like marmite.

The new EMUI (V5?) will apparently look a lot more like vanilla Android, or at least have the option to be, but history suggests it wouldn't necessarily be something as part of an OS update - just for new models.

Yes its a massive shame as everything else on the phone is great, EMUI is so niggly and annoying. Its one good feature that I liked was the battery optimizations. I think if it they had just left android alone they would have had a phone that could easily challenge and exceed the Moto G.

Michael09 · 09-07-2016, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

The 5C is definitely the best performer at its price point, but EMUI certainly is like marmite.

The new EMUI (V5?) will apparently look a lot more like vanilla Android, or at least have the option to be, but history suggests it wouldn't necessarily be something as part of an OS update - just for new models.

Yes its a massive shame as everything else on the phone is great, EMUI is so niggly and annoying. Its one good feature that I liked was the battery optimizations. I think if it they had just left android alone they would have had a phone that could easily challenge and exceed the Moto G.

Here's hoping my G4 is decent upgrade to my G3 or I may be looking for yet another handset

Do you have any recommendations Jon, preferably under £200?

jonmorris · 09-07-2016, 22:19

Given you don't like EMUI the 5C was obviously out, and the Honor 7 would be too. That's got to be around £200 or less these days.

I can't help but think Motorola dropped the ball this time, trying to cut costs or increase margins.

An alternative might be a LG G4 as I think they're almost down to £200. Great spec, camera etc. And now Marshmallow (probably not Nougat though).

swb1964 · 10-07-2016, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

An alternative might be a LG G4 as I think they're almost down to £200. Great spec, camera etc. And now Marshmallow (probably not Nougat though).

Where can you get them at that price? Or were you thinking 2nd hand?

carcass · 12-07-2016, 09:55

The Verge review
http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/11/12...review-android

If Lenovo wants to carry on Motorola’s legacy, it must do better than this stuttering, suboptimal Android experience. Even at $199, the Moto G should not be this slow and unfriendly to its user. The Moto brand once defined what affordable Android could and should be, but this year’s Moto G iteration has fallen into the familiar trap of chasing specs and numbers instead of usability and usefulness.

1manonthebog · 12-07-2016, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by carcass

The Verge review
http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/11/12...review-android

If Lenovo wants to carry on Motorola’s legacy, it must do better than this stuttering, suboptimal Android experience. Even at $199, the Moto G should not be this slow and unfriendly to its user. The Moto brand once defined what affordable Android could and should be, but this year’s Moto G iteration has fallen into the familiar trap of chasing specs and numbers instead of usability and usefulness.

I'm glad someone has actually told the truth about these phones, The first Moto G was faultless and at a decent price which gave the Moto G a good reputation, but ever since the first iteration prices have slow risen and the phones have had issues whether it be sluggishess, over heating or both in the 4th Gens case. The Moto G as is presently is no longer the decent phone at a decent price it once was and finally a reviewer has said as much.

The problem is you read review from the likes of Cnet from a reviewer thats used the phone 5 min, they say how great it is so we buy them, you then look at the user reviews and they are full of complaints.

call100 · 12-07-2016, 13:42

The G4 isn't giving any problems or over heating in day to day use so far.......No doubt people who game on the phone or watch hours of video will experience problems....But, that may be true of most budget phones.

alanwarwic · 12-07-2016, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1manonthebog

I'm glad someone has actually told the truth about these phones, The first Moto G was faultless and at a decent price which gave the Moto G a good reputation, but ever since the first iteration prices have slow risen and the phones have had issues whether it be sluggishess, over heating or both in the 4th Gens case..

Again it was the Plus, the author simply backing up an assertion he made well prior to receipt.

On another Plus, the OnePlus 3, the co-founder Carl Pei felt compelled to reply with regards to an 'it's the worst display I've examined during my time at AnandTech'.
http://www.techdroider.com/2016/06/c...riticisms.html

He felt the bias was on the cheapness, being compelled to say 'With our relationships in the supply chain, we know the BOM (bill of materials) of all other flagships. Out of all the devices that the OnePlus 3 gets compared to, it is one of, if not the most expensive to make.'

Obviously though, costs can sometimes be far higher for small players building high end goods.

AKW · 13-07-2016, 07:03

I have been using a Moto G4 since Saturday and so far I'm very pleased with it with only one issue.

When I receive a call its identified on screen but it's four to five seconds before the ring tone sounds.

Any suggestions as I've missed a couple of calls due to the delay.

Orbitalzone · 13-07-2016, 22:01

I've been using the G4Plus since last week and it's been pretty good. yes the camera can stutter once you've taken a picture or occasionally it goes blank for half a second but so far it's been fine otherwise. It compares very closely to my Moto X Play in most respects.

The verge review was somewhat harsh I felt and ommited the superb dual sim capability as I've mentioned before (3G on both sims at once) or maybe it's just me that likes that feature

Orbitalzone · 13-07-2016, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKW

I have been using a Moto G4 since Saturday and so far I'm very pleased with it with only one issue.

When I receive a call its identified on screen but it's four to five seconds before the ring tone sounds.

Any suggestions as I've missed a couple of calls due to the delay.

I think mine starts off with a low volume level for the ring tone and builds up after a few seconds, I wonder if that's the problem, especially if you have low volume anyway?

There is an app that cancels this feature
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...singring&hl=en

sonicshadow · 14-07-2016, 00:45

My wife has the G4 and it's working great and she's really enjoying it. I've been using a bit and experienced no slow down.

AKW · 14-07-2016, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

I think mine starts off with a low volume level for the ring tone and builds up after a few seconds, I wonder if that's the problem, especially if you have low volume anyway?

There is an app that cancels this feature
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...singring&hl=en

Thanks, I will give the app a try.

I have the volume on high but am having issues when the phone is in my pocket and rings so guess the low start to the ring tone could be the issue.

The Sack · 14-07-2016, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1manonthebog

The problem with 1080 on a 5.5" screen is DPI, Going by the Moto X Play everything was massive on screen but you had no more information on screen that you would with a 4" screen, total waste IMO

Nothing on my Moto X Play is massive.

call100 · 14-07-2016, 17:04

A lot of people who have not even seen a G4, let alone used one, suddenly becoming experts on it.....Hilarious....

alanwarwic · 14-07-2016, 17:15

I cant work out if this signifies mass popularity for the new, budget high end, Moto G.
There were always a 'fatal, do not buy' flaw for Samsung stuff too.

alanwarwic · 14-07-2016, 21:37

A fair guess then. The new Moto E is 720p.
http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_mot..._gen)-8198.php

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...nd-gbp99-price

So £99 and the £129 G4 Play looks more like a higher spec E3 than a real G4.

alanwarwic · 15-07-2016, 11:06

More stuff on the G4 Play and E3
https://www.xda-developers.com/motor...4-play-for-uk/

"Along with the Moto E3, UK will also receive the Moto G4 Play. The Moto G4 Play comes with a 5″ HD Display, Qualcomm Snapdragon 410 SoC, 2GB RAM, 16GB Internal memory with microSD support. The device will also have a 2,800 mAh battery, 8MP rear camera and 5MP front camera, and will come with Android 6.0 Marshmallow.

If you get a feeling of déjà-vu, you aren’t alone. The Moto G4 Play sounds very similar to the aforementioned Moto E3 on a lot of fronts, so we’re confused regarding the product placement of the Moto E3 and the Moto G4"

Does that 'low end' mentioned apply to the E3 or similar Play, or are they now low mid and mid range with the normal G4 mid range and the Plus upper middle?
Battery life should be good and near impossible to overheat. Whereas the Cortex A53 are cooked in the normal G4s, for these 2 they do look seriously undercooked.

jonmorris · 15-07-2016, 11:17

It's a mess. Originally there was the E and G. Then the G had two variants (1GB RAM and 2GB RAM) and now there are loads. (actually there were the 3G and 4G models for a while too but not released at the same time or within weeks).

Does Motorola/Lenovo sell enough phones to have so many variants of the E, G, X, Z etc? Plus the Lenovo branded models?

Last year Samsung realised less is more and has drastically cut back on its portfolio. Sony and HTC and others seem to have done so too, albeit perhaps for financial reasons, but then that's the point.

09-07-2016, 15:42	#126
1manonthebog Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,332	The G4 seems a bit of a disaster to be fair, its not overly cheap anymore, no NFC and the crappy processor seems to be the weakest link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1xkXdCMleg Watch the lag towards the end of this video, yes its a budget phone but I mean it shouldn't act like that,

09-07-2016, 15:50	#127
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	You are referring to the bug, only in the Plus, after using the camera mode for a long time. A bit of an overstatement but I get the impression that this thread is 100% littered with them.

09-07-2016, 18:04	#128
Michael09 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bedmond, United Kingdom Posts: 400	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic You are referring to the bug, only in the Plus, after using the camera mode for a long time. A bit of an overstatement but I get the impression that this thread is 100% littered with them. Totally Agree, was worried as I have ordered the 32GB Standard Moto G4, after owning the original 1st Gen & currently the 3rd Gen. Having read a lot of forum posts it is the G4 Plus that is facing the overheat issue, a little odd considering they both have the same internals, albeit a slightly higher MP camera. Both of my previous G's did occasionally get a little hot but it never seemed to affect performance. Of course I'll post an update later in the week when I've received mine and had a chance to play with it

09-07-2016, 18:08	#129
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I've got a couple of Snapdragon 61n devices and they both get hot and lag for no plausible reason: Honor 5X and Wileyfox Storm. The thing is, the SoC isn't underpowered. It's clearly a thermal issue, just like Snapdragon 810 (and to a degree 820 and even this year's 652). I'm not entirely sold on MediaTek but it does seem that they don't get so hot, and the Huawei chips also seem to cope with taking photos and video without melting. It makes a huge difference to battery performance.

09-07-2016, 18:20	#130
Michael09 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bedmond, United Kingdom Posts: 400	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris I've got a couple of Snapdragon 61n devices and they both get hot and lag for no plausible reason: Honor 5X and Wileyfox Storm. The thing is, the SoC isn't underpowered. It's clearly a thermal issue, just like Snapdragon 810 (and to a degree 820 and even this year's 652). I'm not entirely sold on MediaTek but it does seem that they don't get so hot, and the Huawei chips also seem to cope with taking photos and video without melting. It makes a huge difference to battery performance. I briefly had the Honor 5C, but couldn't get on with the UI, including occasional lag in menus and various other little niggles, however its strongest point was its battery life. I think this is down to the fact that Huawei used its own brand Kirin chipset in the device which must be pretty efficient. Shame, as if it had vanilla android I would've been super happy with the device. Apologies for going off topic, it seems Lenovo needs to put more effort into fine tuning the internals of it's devices, rather than going for the cheapest option.

09-07-2016, 20:40	#131
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	The 5C is definitely the best performer at its price point, but EMUI certainly is like marmite. The new EMUI (V5?) will apparently look a lot more like vanilla Android, or at least have the option to be, but history suggests it wouldn't necessarily be something as part of an OS update - just for new models.

09-07-2016, 20:52	#132
Michael09 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bedmond, United Kingdom Posts: 400	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris The 5C is definitely the best performer at its price point, but EMUI certainly is like marmite. The new EMUI (V5?) will apparently look a lot more like vanilla Android, or at least have the option to be, but history suggests it wouldn't necessarily be something as part of an OS update - just for new models. Yes its a massive shame as everything else on the phone is great, EMUI is so niggly and annoying. Its one good feature that I liked was the battery optimizations. I think if it they had just left android alone they would have had a phone that could easily challenge and exceed the Moto G.

09-07-2016, 20:55	#133
Michael09 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bedmond, United Kingdom Posts: 400	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris The 5C is definitely the best performer at its price point, but EMUI certainly is like marmite. The new EMUI (V5?) will apparently look a lot more like vanilla Android, or at least have the option to be, but history suggests it wouldn't necessarily be something as part of an OS update - just for new models. Yes its a massive shame as everything else on the phone is great, EMUI is so niggly and annoying. Its one good feature that I liked was the battery optimizations. I think if it they had just left android alone they would have had a phone that could easily challenge and exceed the Moto G. Here's hoping my G4 is decent upgrade to my G3 or I may be looking for yet another handset Do you have any recommendations Jon, preferably under £200?

09-07-2016, 22:19	#134
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Given you don't like EMUI the 5C was obviously out, and the Honor 7 would be too. That's got to be around £200 or less these days. I can't help but think Motorola dropped the ball this time, trying to cut costs or increase margins. An alternative might be a LG G4 as I think they're almost down to £200. Great spec, camera etc. And now Marshmallow (probably not Nougat though).

10-07-2016, 09:27	#135
swb1964 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,455	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris An alternative might be a LG G4 as I think they're almost down to £200. Great spec, camera etc. And now Marshmallow (probably not Nougat though). Where can you get them at that price? Or were you thinking 2nd hand?

12-07-2016, 09:55	#136
carcass Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 102	The Verge review http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/11/12...review-android If Lenovo wants to carry on Motorola’s legacy, it must do better than this stuttering, suboptimal Android experience. Even at $199, the Moto G should not be this slow and unfriendly to its user. The Moto brand once defined what affordable Android could and should be, but this year’s Moto G iteration has fallen into the familiar trap of chasing specs and numbers instead of usability and usefulness.

12-07-2016, 10:11	#137
1manonthebog Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,332	Quote: Originally Posted by carcass The Verge review http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/11/12...review-android If Lenovo wants to carry on Motorola’s legacy, it must do better than this stuttering, suboptimal Android experience. Even at $199, the Moto G should not be this slow and unfriendly to its user. The Moto brand once defined what affordable Android could and should be, but this year’s Moto G iteration has fallen into the familiar trap of chasing specs and numbers instead of usability and usefulness. I'm glad someone has actually told the truth about these phones, The first Moto G was faultless and at a decent price which gave the Moto G a good reputation, but ever since the first iteration prices have slow risen and the phones have had issues whether it be sluggishess, over heating or both in the 4th Gens case. The Moto G as is presently is no longer the decent phone at a decent price it once was and finally a reviewer has said as much. The problem is you read review from the likes of Cnet from a reviewer thats used the phone 5 min, they say how great it is so we buy them, you then look at the user reviews and they are full of complaints.

12-07-2016, 13:42	#138
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	The G4 isn't giving any problems or over heating in day to day use so far.......No doubt people who game on the phone or watch hours of video will experience problems....But, that may be true of most budget phones.

12-07-2016, 14:52	#139
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Quote: Originally Posted by 1manonthebog I'm glad someone has actually told the truth about these phones, The first Moto G was faultless and at a decent price which gave the Moto G a good reputation, but ever since the first iteration prices have slow risen and the phones have had issues whether it be sluggishess, over heating or both in the 4th Gens case.. Again it was the Plus, the author simply backing up an assertion he made well prior to receipt. On another Plus, the OnePlus 3, the co-founder Carl Pei felt compelled to reply with regards to an 'it's the worst display I've examined during my time at AnandTech'. http://www.techdroider.com/2016/06/c...riticisms.html He felt the bias was on the cheapness, being compelled to say 'With our relationships in the supply chain, we know the BOM (bill of materials) of all other flagships. Out of all the devices that the OnePlus 3 gets compared to, it is one of, if not the most expensive to make.' Obviously though, costs can sometimes be far higher for small players building high end goods.

13-07-2016, 07:03	#140
AKW Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Honiton Devon Posts: 595	I have been using a Moto G4 since Saturday and so far I'm very pleased with it with only one issue. When I receive a call its identified on screen but it's four to five seconds before the ring tone sounds. Any suggestions as I've missed a couple of calls due to the delay.

13-07-2016, 22:01	#141
Orbitalzone Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sussex Posts: 12,173	I've been using the G4Plus since last week and it's been pretty good. yes the camera can stutter once you've taken a picture or occasionally it goes blank for half a second but so far it's been fine otherwise. It compares very closely to my Moto X Play in most respects. The verge review was somewhat harsh I felt and ommited the superb dual sim capability as I've mentioned before (3G on both sims at once) or maybe it's just me that likes that feature

13-07-2016, 22:06	#142
Orbitalzone Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sussex Posts: 12,173	Quote: Originally Posted by AKW I have been using a Moto G4 since Saturday and so far I'm very pleased with it with only one issue. When I receive a call its identified on screen but it's four to five seconds before the ring tone sounds. Any suggestions as I've missed a couple of calls due to the delay. I think mine starts off with a low volume level for the ring tone and builds up after a few seconds, I wonder if that's the problem, especially if you have low volume anyway? There is an app that cancels this feature https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...singring&hl=en

14-07-2016, 00:45	#143
sonicshadow Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,928	My wife has the G4 and it's working great and she's really enjoying it. I've been using a bit and experienced no slow down.

14-07-2016, 06:51	#144
AKW Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Honiton Devon Posts: 595	Quote: Originally Posted by Orbitalzone I think mine starts off with a low volume level for the ring tone and builds up after a few seconds, I wonder if that's the problem, especially if you have low volume anyway? There is an app that cancels this feature https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...singring&hl=en Thanks, I will give the app a try. I have the volume on high but am having issues when the phone is in my pocket and rings so guess the low start to the ring tone could be the issue.

14-07-2016, 08:51	#145
The Sack Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S6 1SW WTID UTO FTB Posts: 6,327	Quote: Originally Posted by 1manonthebog The problem with 1080 on a 5.5" screen is DPI, Going by the Moto X Play everything was massive on screen but you had no more information on screen that you would with a 4" screen, total waste IMO Nothing on my Moto X Play is massive.

DS Forums

Moto G4 and Moto G4 Plus 2016

14-07-2016, 17:04	#146
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	A lot of people who have not even seen a G4, let alone used one, suddenly becoming experts on it.....Hilarious....

14-07-2016, 17:15	#147
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	I cant work out if this signifies mass popularity for the new, budget high end, Moto G. There were always a 'fatal, do not buy' flaw for Samsung stuff too.

14-07-2016, 21:37	#148
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	A fair guess then. The new Moto E is 720p. http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_mot..._gen)-8198.php http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...nd-gbp99-price So £99 and the £129 G4 Play looks more like a higher spec E3 than a real G4.

15-07-2016, 11:06	#149
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	More stuff on the G4 Play and E3 https://www.xda-developers.com/motor...4-play-for-uk/ "Along with the Moto E3, UK will also receive the Moto G4 Play. The Moto G4 Play comes with a 5″ HD Display, Qualcomm Snapdragon 410 SoC, 2GB RAM, 16GB Internal memory with microSD support. The device will also have a 2,800 mAh battery, 8MP rear camera and 5MP front camera, and will come with Android 6.0 Marshmallow. If you get a feeling of déjà-vu, you aren’t alone. The Moto G4 Play sounds very similar to the aforementioned Moto E3 on a lot of fronts, so we’re confused regarding the product placement of the Moto E3 and the Moto G4" Does that 'low end' mentioned apply to the E3 or similar Play, or are they now low mid and mid range with the normal G4 mid range and the Plus upper middle? Battery life should be good and near impossible to overheat. Whereas the Cortex A53 are cooked in the normal G4s, for these 2 they do look seriously undercooked.

15-07-2016, 11:17	#150
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	It's a mess. Originally there was the E and G. Then the G had two variants (1GB RAM and 2GB RAM) and now there are loads. (actually there were the 3G and 4G models for a while too but not released at the same time or within weeks). Does Motorola/Lenovo sell enough phones to have so many variants of the E, G, X, Z etc? Plus the Lenovo branded models? Last year Samsung realised less is more and has drastically cut back on its portfolio. Sony and HTC and others seem to have done so too, albeit perhaps for financial reasons, but then that's the point.