[Broken Hope]

I'm sure the main reason is probably because they have less models to test on if they cut support.

[jonmorris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

They aren't forced to support it, you're right, but it might make customers think again about buying that new Mac - why pay for a premium over a PC when one of its advantages has disappeared?

I'd say that the typical Apple user doesn't hold on to kit for long enough for things to be a problem. The second hand market isn't really that important for Apple, and sealing everything in to laptops, phones and tablets to stop you being able to easily (or cheaply) upgrade storage, RAM or batteries, is a good way to make hardware obsolete long before the software does.

(And yes, even with the older software, you can argue that as long as the old hardware still works as it did, you shouldn't complain.)

[jchamier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I'd say that the typical Apple user doesn't hold on to kit for long enough for things to be a problem. The second hand market isn't really that important for Apple, and sealing everything in to laptops, phones and tablets to stop you being able to easily (or cheaply) upgrade storage, RAM or batteries, is a good way to make hardware obsolete long before the software does.

Its not as bad as some people make out, my friends have two kids both under 10 and they both have iPhone 4S handsets (16gb with PAYG SIMs with no credit) and these phones were both bought at the launch. The battery life is still good, about 5 years later. So sometimes paying more for quality works.

Sealed in batteries solves a problem for airlines, and stops the market for £1 replacements in market stalls that the end user can change. Lithium Ion batteries (and LiPol) are horrendously dangerous as we've seen in the news in the past few years. Its not something people should be getting changed by market stalls and small accessory shops using products of unknown origin.

[jonmorris]

Instead people are buying questionable battery packs with lithium ion batteries instead!

However, your point is valid in principle.

[jchamier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Instead people are buying questionable battery packs with lithium ion batteries instead!

Some people are agreed. But they're not part of the phone product, so not the responsibility of Samsung/Apple/HTC/Sony etc.

Quote:

However, your point is valid in principle.

I wonder if this is the industry trying to self regulate before something horrible like "no phones/tablets on aircraft" ruling occurs?

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

Surely that would be not support them in the first place?

Well my Xperia Android is now on it's fourth OS iteration so that doesn't really fit does it. Google are now doing something about the fragmentation and using silent updates to many Android phones via Google Services.

Still, don't let the fact's get in the way of an incorrect sarcastic post though.

[jchamier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Well my Xperia Android is now on it's fourth OS iteration so that doesn't really fit does it. Google are now doing something about the fragmentation and using silent updates to many Android phones via Google Services.

Trying to, but they couldn't fix many of the OS vulnerabilities. Google Services itself is still a user land application. It upgrades anything Google supplies.

Quote:

Still, don't let the fact's get in the way of an incorrect sarcastic post though.

there are still too many phones out there with Stagefright vulnerabilities that are not patched or ever patch. Some of these were/are quite expensive, we are not talking £100 basic devices here. That's the problem Google needs to work on.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

Trying to, but they couldn't fix many of the OS vulnerabilities. Google Services itself is still a user land application. It upgrades anything Google supplies.


there are still too many phones out there with Stagefright vulnerabilities that are not patched or ever patch. Some of these were/are quite expensive, we are not talking £100 basic devices here. That's the problem Google needs to work on.

The best way forward is to deal with fragmentation. If you look at the latest Google requirements for the OEMs they are quite stringent. As an example Sony have had to drop the rather excellent Stamina Mode from the latest OS iteration because Google has shipped Marshmallow with Doze mode.

For my money Doze isn't a patch on Stamina for battery life but Sony cannot do anything which might interfere with the way Google want's its OS to be. This should mean that a lot of the OEMs attempts to stamp their UI overlay on phones is likely to be curtailed and as a result more secure.

Once Android is all on the same page it will make it far easier for Google to police it.

[jchamier]

Agreed but without differentiation will the various vendors want to be in the game anymore? Sony only just ticking over, keeping in the technology for future IoT they said.

[jonmorris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

The best way forward is to deal with fragmentation. If you look at the latest Google requirements for the OEMs they are quite stringent. As an example Sony have had to drop the rather excellent Stamina Mode from the latest OS iteration because Google has shipped Marshmallow with Doze mode.

Doze for Android N is looking better than Stamina mode (I'm running it now on my Z3) but Sony IS bringing it back to give people a choice.

I think part of the reason is that Sony feels it needs things to stand out from any other generic phone.

[alanwarwic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broken Hope

iOS 10 finally allows us to delete the stock apps.

http://i.imgur.com/DaQ1ZlT.png

The Guardian are promoting this too.
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ke-alarm-macos

However, it is just the usual fibby hyperbole. They are telling us IOS users now get to hide app icons like a more normal OS.

[Broken Hope]

Yeah it's a shame that it's not really deleting the app and that Apple can't release updates for the stock apps without an iOS update.

I'm sure we'd get changes much faster if the apps weren't hard linked to the OS.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I'd say that the typical Apple user doesn't hold on to kit for long enough for things to be a problem. The second hand market isn't really that important for Apple, and sealing everything in to laptops, phones and tablets to stop you being able to easily (or cheaply) upgrade storage, RAM or batteries, is a good way to make hardware obsolete long before the software does.

(And yes, even with the older software, you can argue that as long as the old hardware still works as it did, you shouldn't complain.)

I'm surprised that many people posting on techie forums like this one, Apple users or not, don't replace their computers at least every 6-7 years.

[Dan Sette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

I'm surprised that many people posting on techie forums like this one, Apple users or not, don't replace their computers at least every 6-7 years.

Indeed. My Macbook is now exactly 10 tears old and still in daily use. As is the iMac. I won't replace the laptop but am thinking of upgrading the iMac at some point in the medium future (probably next year). The current iMac won't go to waste though it is planned to be the centre "brain" for an electronic drum kit and act a s a studio for keyboards and guitar effects.

[jonmorris]

Of course some people have older machines, but Apple can enjoy customers who upgrade sooner than they perhaps need to and have the funds to do so.

I've got old Power PC Macs in my loft, but that doesn't really count. One of iMacs is late 2009, the MBA 2011 and the iMac 5K six months after they were released.

I am in no rush to change the MBA but I can't see myself still using it after 10 years.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Doze for Android N is looking better than Stamina mode (I'm running it now on my Z3) but Sony IS bringing it back to give people a choice.

I think part of the reason is that Sony feels it needs things to stand out from any other generic phone.

You must becthe exception as if you go on the Sony forums everyone is urging Sony to restore Stamina mode. My Z3C has got much poorer battery lifecwith Doze.

Sony are/may restore Stamina but it has to be a a Stamina lite in order to comply with android.

[davies88]

I've been a Samsung Galaxy user for years now, but really liking how ios10 is shaping up.

The things I want to be tempted back to an iPhone:

longer lasting battery, one that lasts an whole day
fast charging
bigger screen
smaller bezels
32GB minimum
better antenna design

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

You must becthe exception as if you go on the Sony forums everyone is urging Sony to restore Stamina mode. My Z3C has got much poorer battery lifecwith Doze.

Sony are/may restore Stamina but it has to be a a Stamina lite in order to comply with android.

They have restored it. I got an update yesterday for my Z5 and its put it back in.

To be honest i still managed to pull over a day out my Z5 with normal use.

[jonmorris]

I think Doze should be better come Android N. I wonder if Sony will give the choice to switch between one and the other?

There's a data save option on Android which allows whitelisting of apps, which is almost identical to the Sony system, but native to the OS.

We shall of course see, but I'm loving the battery life on my Z3 running N (beta 4 as of yesterday) and it's given the phone a whole new lease of life. It's stunningly quick (fluid, rather than outright CPU/GPU power) for an old phone now.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I think Doze should be better come Android N. I wonder if Sony will give the choice to switch between one and the other?

There's a data save option on Android which allows whitelisting of apps, which is almost identical to the Sony system, but native to the OS.

We shall of course see, but I'm loving the battery life on my Z3 running N (beta 4 as of yesterday) and it's given the phone a whole new lease of life. It's stunningly quick (fluid, rather than outright CPU/GPU power) for an old phone now.

I prefer to wait for the official release though not sure if the Z3 will get N (officially). If it doesn't then I will leave it with Marshmallow.

[jonmorris]

I'd hope it gets it, or at least the final version. Beyond that, I am not too worried as the phone is old - but I've enjoyed using it more than on my 6P which seems to have had problems (but beta 4 should be much more stable).

The best bit is perhaps that there's nothing else on the phone.. not even the Sony apps (album, music etc). The camera app is there but hardly anything else.

I love devices that are near empty, and it also works great with adoptable storage. Android Pay doesn't work though (it fails when doing security checks).

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

They have restored it. I got an update yesterday for my Z5 and its put it back in.

To be honest i still managed to pull over a day out my Z5 with normal use.

Well according to the many items about this online including the fact my Z3C on 6.0.1 has allegedly got stamina mode, I can say for definite that my Z3C on 6.0.1 has not got Stamina mode just Battery Saver and Battery Optimisation. The phone's software is up to date with no other updates available.

[tdenson]

Although I can't disagree that Apple have no hesitation in obsoleting hardware when they want to, I don't think we are quite comparing Apples with Apples (no pun intended) as regards obsolescence compared with the windows world. Let's not forget that Apple continues to provide support for earlier versions of Mac OS (that does support older hardware) which is akin to MS supporting XP.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Well according to the many items about this online including the fact my Z3C on 6.0.1 has allegedly got stamina mode, I can say for definite that my Z3C on 6.0.1 has not got Stamina mode just Battery Saver and Battery Optimisation. The phone's software is up to date with no other updates available.

The update for the Z5 has only been rolling out over the last week. So it is there for the Z5, but you may have to wait a bit yet.

[CFGalaxy]

I can't wait to see its born