iPhone 7 will have things you can't live without says Tim Cook

jonmorris · 19-08-2016, 08:23

Quote:

Is NFC / Android Pay really such a 'must have' though? I'm not convinced.

Contactless cards do just the same job (for payments under £30) with less faff, albeit without the added security layer.

Yes, you do need to have the card with you, unlike with Android Pay. (Though for some people the strategy of leaving the credit card in the drawer at home is very much done on purpose!)

I now use Android Pay almost exclusively now. It actually seems a right pain to have to use a physical card for purchases over £30, or when someone can't take CPCs at all.

gomezz · 19-08-2016, 08:54

I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device!

Gigabit · 19-08-2016, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device!

You shouldn't be storing those details on any device...

Faust · 19-08-2016, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device!

Perhaps it would assist if you read up on exactly how Android Pay works prior to posting?

Faust · 19-08-2016, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by binary

Is NFC / Android Pay really such a 'must have' though? I'm not convinced.

Contactless cards do just the same job (for payments under £30) with less faff, albeit without the added security layer.

Yes, you do need to have the card with you, unlike with Android Pay. (Though for some people the strategy of leaving the credit card in the drawer at home is very much done on purpose!)

Before I used Android Pay I would have been with you myself. Now having tried it, well what can I say - it's a must have item on any future phone I own. It really is convenient and just so good to have.

I do have contactless cards but I don't need to remember to carry them so long as I have my phone with me, which I always do have. I don't own a wallet (never have) so have my cards in one of those card holder wallets, which nine times of of ten gets left in the drawer at home.

gomezz · 19-08-2016, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Perhaps it would assist if you read up on exactly how Android Pay works prior to posting?

I have and read nothing to change my opinion.

jonmorris · 19-08-2016, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Perhaps it would assist if you read up on exactly how Android Pay works prior to posting?

Does it matter? One tin-hat wearing non-user isn't going to stop Google, Samsung, Apple and others (including the banks, obviously) rolling out mobile payments. Nor the majority of people using it in the years to come.

In London, a LOT of people now use mobiles to pay. Why wouldn't you when chances are you've got your phone in your hand? Retailers don't bat an eyelid now.

aurichie · 19-08-2016, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device!

Bang on.

People slam Apple for their tight grip on the iOS platform but it's safe and secure.

Android is a dream for scammers and hackers,

Faust · 19-08-2016, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

I have and read nothing to change my opinion.

You clearly haven't understood the technology which underpins it then.

gomezz · 19-08-2016, 11:48

And you do? To the n'th degree necessary to understand the issues?

The technology is not even the main issue. It is the provenance of the organisations behind it.

Faust · 19-08-2016, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurichie

Bang on.

People slam Apple for their tight grip on the iOS platform but it's safe and secure.

Android is a dream for scammers and hackers,

As an Apple owner myself I have no more confidence in Apple than I do in my Android device. An attitude shared by the security industry BTW. Some people really are a salespersons dream.

Faust · 19-08-2016, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

And you do? To the n'th degree necessary to understand the issues?

The technology is not even the main issue. It is the provenance of the organisations behind it.

Well it was you who was talking about letting Google have your bank card details. Google Pay doesn't actually use your bank card details. This is what makes it so secure. More secure in fact than contactless cards in tests. It creates a virtual encrypted card which is destroyed after each transaction. It works just like Apple Pay.

When I make a payment I make a secure connection to my bank and get a receipt from the bank. Stop looking for Reds under the bed for goodness sake.

gomezz · 19-08-2016, 20:40

And just what details does it need to allow it to create this one time use virtual card to create a debt attributed to you? You need to think a bit more holistically about how security works.

jonmorris · 19-08-2016, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

And just what details does it need to allow it to create this one time use virtual card to create a debt attributed to you? You need to think a bit more holistically about how security works.

Just don't use it and be happy. Don't worry about trying to convince others it's not safe.

Nothing in life is 100% safe. I am more than happy to accept an element of risk, as I have to by even having a debit card in the first place (or indeed, a bank account).

But it's better than keeping money under my mattress and carrying money with me. I'm sure that one reason muggings are down is because there's an expectation that most people don't carry large sums of cash with them anymore.

Card acceptance now means we're moving ever closer towards a cashless society.

gomezz · 19-08-2016, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Just don't use it and be happy. Don't worry about trying to convince others it's not safe

As long as others don't worry about trying to convince me it *is* safe.

(of course, they are really trying to reassure themselves)

Gigabit · 19-08-2016, 23:02

It has been said that Blackberry, Samsung and Apple devices are all equal in terms of security.

This "idea" that iPhones are inherently more secure it just such rubbish. Why do iPhones keep being jailbroken?

gomezz · 19-08-2016, 23:09

The Android update model is fundamentally broken

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08...d_update_risk/

jonmorris · 19-08-2016, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

The Android update model is fundamentally broken

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08...d_update_risk/

Not sure it's broken. As I'm sure you know Play Services and pretty much all the Google apps are not part of the OS, so can be updated at any time. Security updates come monthly (albeit they can come at any time in the month, so some will get it on the 1st, others the 31st).

Android N introduces new features, but even things like the launcher can and likely will be offered to Android M users.

I update my phones as quickly as possible, often with beta releases and early adopter releases, but I'll openly admit that most of the billions of Android users don't care. Many won't even update the phone when they see there is one - and just leave the update request on the notification bar for weeks/months!

In the future, upgrading can be done a lot more transparently, but there's always the issue that some users don't like change.. as in they'll get somewhat angry if things they know how to do change in any way. Phones aren't all used by techy nerds like me.

Faust · 20-08-2016, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

And just what details does it need to allow it to create this one time use virtual card to create a debt attributed to you? You need to think a bit more holistically about how security works.

Oh for goodness sake man get a grip. Read up on this. Security experts have already said this is safer than a contactless bank card. What has the Android update model allegedly being broken got anything to do with this?

You are putting two and two together and coming up with seven thousand and eight. The transaction has back to back encryption works on the same principle as Apple Pay, is a one time only virtual transaction and is between you and your bank.

Have you any idea how many people have their card details cloned everyday and money siphoned from their account? It's running into millions of pounds a year and yet you are baulking at something that is inherently safer???

gomezz · 20-08-2016, 16:28

Avoiding the question I actually asked, I see.

Faust · 20-08-2016, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Avoiding the question I actually asked, I see.

What was the question again in simple terms? I didn't provide Google with any of my details. I contacted my bank and exchanged security details with them direct if that was your question.

gomezz · 20-08-2016, 23:16

Quote:

To use Android Pay you need to have the app installed, so check if you already have it on your device. If not, go to the Google Play store and search Android Pay. If you can see it on the Google Play store it means your device is compatible.

You can add your Halifax debit or credit cards to Android Pay in a few simple steps:
•Tap the + sign in the app
•Add in your card details and address details•Review and accept the Halifax terms of use
•Verify your cards for security then follow the on-screen instructions
•You’ll be prompted to set up a screen lock, if you don’t already have one.

Note the BiB and think again about what details you provided and to whom.

Stiggles · 21-08-2016, 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Note the BiB and think again about what details you provided and to whom.

What about it?

The same details anyone else asks for....

Stig · 21-08-2016, 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device!

Firstly, all this discussion about Android Pay is off-topic for a thread which is supposedly about the iPhone 7.

However, while I agree that there is a theoretical risk from malware when using an Android device to setup Android Pay, the actual process of payment is far more secure then buying over the phone when you read out your card number, expiry date, CVC code and address!

If it is Google themselves that worry you, I suspect you will not find one single example of Google leaking credit card details, but several million examples of dodgy company call centres doing so.

I'm an Apple Pay user btw.

Faust · 21-08-2016, 16:35

Quote:

If it is Google themselves that worry you, I suspect you will not find one single example of Google leaking credit card details, but several million examples of dodgy company call centres doing so.

I'm an Apple Pay user btw.

Absolutely correct - sadly though listening to some people on the internet is like listening to two old women gossiping in the street. They get hold of half a tale and then before you know it what started as someone leaving the garden gate open has turned into a full scale burglary.

Android Pay, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay. They are all secure - end of.

19-08-2016, 08:23	#351
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by binary Is NFC / Android Pay really such a 'must have' though? I'm not convinced. Contactless cards do just the same job (for payments under £30) with less faff, albeit without the added security layer. Yes, you do need to have the card with you, unlike with Android Pay. (Though for some people the strategy of leaving the credit card in the drawer at home is very much done on purpose!) I now use Android Pay almost exclusively now. It actually seems a right pain to have to use a physical card for purchases over £30, or when someone can't take CPCs at all.

19-08-2016, 08:54	#352
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device!

19-08-2016, 10:05	#353
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device! You shouldn't be storing those details on any device...

19-08-2016, 10:17	#354
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device! Perhaps it would assist if you read up on exactly how Android Pay works prior to posting?

19-08-2016, 10:22	#355
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by binary Is NFC / Android Pay really such a 'must have' though? I'm not convinced. Contactless cards do just the same job (for payments under £30) with less faff, albeit without the added security layer. Yes, you do need to have the card with you, unlike with Android Pay. (Though for some people the strategy of leaving the credit card in the drawer at home is very much done on purpose!) Before I used Android Pay I would have been with you myself. Now having tried it, well what can I say - it's a must have item on any future phone I own. It really is convenient and just so good to have. I do have contactless cards but I don't need to remember to carry them so long as I have my phone with me, which I always do have. I don't own a wallet (never have) so have my cards in one of those card holder wallets, which nine times of of ten gets left in the drawer at home.

19-08-2016, 10:25	#356
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Quote: Originally Posted by Faust Perhaps it would assist if you read up on exactly how Android Pay works prior to posting? I have and read nothing to change my opinion.

19-08-2016, 11:04	#357
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by Faust Perhaps it would assist if you read up on exactly how Android Pay works prior to posting? Does it matter? One tin-hat wearing non-user isn't going to stop Google, Samsung, Apple and others (including the banks, obviously) rolling out mobile payments. Nor the majority of people using it in the years to come. In London, a LOT of people now use mobiles to pay. Why wouldn't you when chances are you've got your phone in your hand? Retailers don't bat an eyelid now.

19-08-2016, 11:31	#358
aurichie Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 5,100	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device! Bang on. People slam Apple for their tight grip on the iOS platform but it's safe and secure. Android is a dream for scammers and hackers,

19-08-2016, 11:46	#359
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz I have and read nothing to change my opinion. You clearly haven't understood the technology which underpins it then.

19-08-2016, 11:48	#360
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	And you do? To the n'th degree necessary to understand the issues? The technology is not even the main issue. It is the provenance of the organisations behind it.

19-08-2016, 11:50	#361
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by aurichie Bang on. People slam Apple for their tight grip on the iOS platform but it's safe and secure. Android is a dream for scammers and hackers, As an Apple owner myself I have no more confidence in Apple than I do in my Android device. An attitude shared by the security industry BTW. Some people really are a salespersons dream.

19-08-2016, 12:05	#362
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz And you do? To the n'th degree necessary to understand the issues? The technology is not even the main issue. It is the provenance of the organisations behind it. Well it was you who was talking about letting Google have your bank card details. Google Pay doesn't actually use your bank card details. This is what makes it so secure. More secure in fact than contactless cards in tests. It creates a virtual encrypted card which is destroyed after each transaction. It works just like Apple Pay. When I make a payment I make a secure connection to my bank and get a receipt from the bank. Stop looking for Reds under the bed for goodness sake.

19-08-2016, 20:40	#363
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	And just what details does it need to allow it to create this one time use virtual card to create a debt attributed to you? You need to think a bit more holistically about how security works.

19-08-2016, 22:11	#364
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz And just what details does it need to allow it to create this one time use virtual card to create a debt attributed to you? You need to think a bit more holistically about how security works. Just don't use it and be happy. Don't worry about trying to convince others it's not safe. Nothing in life is 100% safe. I am more than happy to accept an element of risk, as I have to by even having a debit card in the first place (or indeed, a bank account). But it's better than keeping money under my mattress and carrying money with me. I'm sure that one reason muggings are down is because there's an expectation that most people don't carry large sums of cash with them anymore. Card acceptance now means we're moving ever closer towards a cashless society.

19-08-2016, 22:23	#365
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Just don't use it and be happy. Don't worry about trying to convince others it's not safe As long as others don't worry about trying to convince me it is safe. (of course, they are really trying to reassure themselves)

19-08-2016, 23:02	#366
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	It has been said that Blackberry, Samsung and Apple devices are all equal in terms of security. This "idea" that iPhones are inherently more secure it just such rubbish. Why do iPhones keep being jailbroken?

19-08-2016, 23:09	#367
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	The Android update model is fundamentally broken http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08...d_update_risk/

19-08-2016, 23:23	#368
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz The Android update model is fundamentally broken http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08...d_update_risk/ Not sure it's broken. As I'm sure you know Play Services and pretty much all the Google apps are not part of the OS, so can be updated at any time. Security updates come monthly (albeit they can come at any time in the month, so some will get it on the 1st, others the 31st). Android N introduces new features, but even things like the launcher can and likely will be offered to Android M users. I update my phones as quickly as possible, often with beta releases and early adopter releases, but I'll openly admit that most of the billions of Android users don't care. Many won't even update the phone when they see there is one - and just leave the update request on the notification bar for weeks/months! In the future, upgrading can be done a lot more transparently, but there's always the issue that some users don't like change.. as in they'll get somewhat angry if things they know how to do change in any way. Phones aren't all used by techy nerds like me.

20-08-2016, 14:32	#369
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz And just what details does it need to allow it to create this one time use virtual card to create a debt attributed to you? You need to think a bit more holistically about how security works. Oh for goodness sake man get a grip. Read up on this. Security experts have already said this is safer than a contactless bank card. What has the Android update model allegedly being broken got anything to do with this? You are putting two and two together and coming up with seven thousand and eight. The transaction has back to back encryption works on the same principle as Apple Pay, is a one time only virtual transaction and is between you and your bank. Have you any idea how many people have their card details cloned everyday and money siphoned from their account? It's running into millions of pounds a year and yet you are baulking at something that is inherently safer???

20-08-2016, 16:28	#370
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Avoiding the question I actually asked, I see.

20-08-2016, 23:08	#371
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz Avoiding the question I actually asked, I see. What was the question again in simple terms? I didn't provide Google with any of my details. I contacted my bank and exchanged security details with them direct if that was your question.

DS Forums

iPhone 7 will have things you can't live without says Tim Cook

20-08-2016, 23:16	#372
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Quote: To use Android Pay you need to have the app installed, so check if you already have it on your device. If not, go to the Google Play store and search Android Pay. If you can see it on the Google Play store it means your device is compatible. You can add your Halifax debit or credit cards to Android Pay in a few simple steps: •Tap the + sign in the app •Add in your card details and address details•Review and accept the Halifax terms of use •Verify your cards for security then follow the on-screen instructions •You’ll be prompted to set up a screen lock, if you don’t already have one. Note the BiB and think again about what details you provided and to whom.

21-08-2016, 03:15	#373
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz Note the BiB and think again about what details you provided and to whom. What about it? The same details anyone else asks for....

21-08-2016, 06:35	#374
Stig Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK Posts: 10,383	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz I wouldn't let my banking or card details within a country mile of any Android device! Firstly, all this discussion about Android Pay is off-topic for a thread which is supposedly about the iPhone 7. However, while I agree that there is a theoretical risk from malware when using an Android device to setup Android Pay, the actual process of payment is far more secure then buying over the phone when you read out your card number, expiry date, CVC code and address! If it is Google themselves that worry you, I suspect you will not find one single example of Google leaking credit card details, but several million examples of dodgy company call centres doing so. I'm an Apple Pay user btw.

21-08-2016, 16:35	#375
Faust Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: UK Posts: 8,103	Quote: If it is Google themselves that worry you, I suspect you will not find one single example of Google leaking credit card details, but several million examples of dodgy company call centres doing so. I'm an Apple Pay user btw. Absolutely correct - sadly though listening to some people on the internet is like listening to two old women gossiping in the street. They get hold of half a tale and then before you know it what started as someone leaving the garden gate open has turned into a full scale burglary. Android Pay, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay. They are all secure - end of.