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iPhone 7 will have things you can't live without says Tim Cook


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Old 03-10-2016, 15:15
Stiggles
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No, please, I've handled many Android phones with fingerprint readers in strange places (and they're all more awkward), if they can enclose the home button in the screen the print reader needs to go in the same place. For ApplePay it's the most natural place for the thumb as you lay the phone on the reader.
That is pure opinion.

I personally find the fingerprint reader on the Z5 in the perfect place. On the side exactly where your finger is anyway while holding any phone. The iphone's is not. For me that's awkward.
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Old 03-10-2016, 15:40
jonmorris
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Xperia works wonderfully well on the side and has received many positive reviews. If you used one for a couple of days you would wonder why they all aren't on the side.
I prefer the back, but you'd get used to whatever you had. I do wonder if one day you could actually have more than one sensor for convenience. I doubt the component is that expensive to double up on.
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Old 03-10-2016, 15:48
d123
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The fact still remains the larger model is not aesthetically pleasing. It reminds me of a slab of cheddar. They need to shed the home button and enclose it in the screen whilst placing the finger print reader on the side. That would then enable them to get rid of the ugly bezels.
So what's your opinion of the Google Pixel then? It's pretty much an iPhone clone...

http://media.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-conten...p_resize-2.png

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/10/now...s-pixel-party/
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Old 03-10-2016, 16:26
calico_pie
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That is pure opinion.

I personally find the fingerprint reader on the Z5 in the perfect place. On the side exactly where your finger is anyway while holding any phone. The iphone's is not. For me that's awkward.
Presumably both are convenient, depending on the phone you have and the muscle memory you have.

If you have a Z5, and your finger typically rests there, then that will be convenient to you.

If someone has an iPhone, and their thumb typically presses the home button a lot, then that will be convenient to iPhone users.

I don't think either is necessarily objectively more convenient than the other.

Although arguably, the home button in the middle of the iPhone is equally convenient for left and right handed people.

But the Z5's will probably be more convenient for left handed people than right handed people.
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Old 03-10-2016, 16:45
Faust
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So what's your opinion of the Google Pixel then? It's pretty much an iPhone clone...

http://media.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-conten...p_resize-2.png

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/10/now...s-pixel-party/
Already replied - see post 1475

I do note the bottom paragraph which is interesting seeing as they are purported to be an iPhone clone.
Unfortunately, they’re unlikely to come cheap and aren’t exactly what we'd describe as pretty (or even interesting-looking). [Android Police]
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Old 03-10-2016, 17:03
d123
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Already replied - see post 1475

I do note the bottom paragraph which is interesting seeing as they are purported to be an iPhone clone.
You didn't really, as you said

It's a bit difficult to tell from those shots given the phone is black
My links were to the white model in the CPW photos
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Old 03-10-2016, 20:35
Faust
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You didn't really, as you said



My links were to the white model in the CPW photos
I absolutely said it doesn't matter who makes the phone, big bezels aren't attractive and it looks like I'm not the only one that thinks so.

That's strike one for the Pixel and strike two for the 7 plus.
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Old 03-10-2016, 20:57
jonmorris
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It's a bit difficult to tell from those shots given the phone is black but the bezels certainly look OTT. I don't care who makes the phone, if the aesthetics aren't good they aren't good.
Exactly. Only hardcore Android fanboys are going to say these are wonderful. I prefer Android, but I am not defending these phones, which lack any standout features at all from the specs.

Everything else is software, so there's nothing truly unique (or nothing significant, if we assume there might be some exclusive ringtones or wallpapers, and other non-important stuff).
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Old 03-10-2016, 22:45
Faust
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To add balance to the fact the Pixel is no beauty, I read the following in Know Your Mobile concerning the iPhone 7 release. Again it's very much along the lines of what I have been saying from the start -

Let’s break it down, for the sake of brevity: new colour options? Big Whoop! Dual camera on the most expensive model? Interesting, but not innovative — see the LG G5. Display technology? Improved colour, but the same resolution. A10 chipset? Excellent. This is likely the biggest piece of innovation in the new iPhone. Water resistance? Again, no big deal — Android phones have had this feature since around 2012.

What happened at Apple’s iPhone 7 launch was a gloss-over the cold hard fact that Apple is saving ALL of its big innovations for 2017’s iPhone 8, including new OLED panels, a new chassis design, even more camera advancements and much more besides.


In other words they are hood winking their loyal Apple fans who will go out and buy this phone thinking it's something new when in fact it's just a tarted up 6s 6s plus.
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Old 04-10-2016, 01:29
calico_pie
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Thank goodness there are people prepared to expose all of this on Internet forums.

Without undercover exposes like this, people would have no idea about the details and spec of phones they were being hoodwinked into buying from Apple.

Your argument makes no sense anyway - you've quoted a bit about how it has some stuff that other phones have had for a while. But presumably the iPhone hasn't, in which case they are actual differences between this iPhone and previous iPhones, no?
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Old 04-10-2016, 02:17
aurichie
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In other words they are hood winking their loyal Apple fans who will go out and buy this phone thinking it's something new when in fact it's just a tarted up 6s 6s plus.
There is always something better on the horizon. When the PC industry was growing up, your new machine was out-of-date almost within weeks - whether it be a faster processor, more RAM, better graphics, the pace of innovation was incredible. I could almost guarantee the next issue of my favourite computer mag would have something in there that I wish my computer had before I purchased it several weeks ago.

Nowadays all of that PC stuff has slowed to crawl almost, but the mobile stuff is the industry packed full of innovation - better chips, new ideas, major software revisions and feature bumps happening all the time in a vastly competitive landscape. It's your mobile phone that feels outdated within weeks or months when someone else brings out a new model with nice new things - whether its software, hardware or a combination of both.

The bottom line is tomorrow never comes if as a company you insist on releasing the perfect phone with all the technology you could ever want to include. The likes of Apple have to nail down a final cutoff date when both the hardware and software spec is complete. The whole process of readying these new devices for mass production starts many many months out. And beyond that cutoff window, you'll undoubtedly uncover new technology and new ideas that you will want to include in a future iPhone - but if you want to sell a new product this year you cannot go back and delay because you'll keep delaying for eternity.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple has already finalised the spec for the iPhone 8, and while we're all dreaming about what iPhone 8 may have, their teams are already starting to prepare to begin work on iPhone 9.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:04
Faust
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Thank goodness there are people prepared to expose all of this on Internet forums.

Without undercover exposes like this, people would have no idea about the details and spec of phones they were being hoodwinked into buying from Apple.

Your argument makes no sense anyway - you've quoted a bit about how it has some stuff that other phones have had for a while. But presumably the iPhone hasn't, in which case they are actual differences between this iPhone and previous iPhones, no?
You can be as sarcastic as you like. However, the fact remains this years iPhone launch is nothing short of window dressing whilst holding back for the 10th Anniversary edition next year. Most pundits told you this well before launch and they weren't wrong.

I will also state this with absolute certainty - with the exception of tech forums such as DS etc. the majority of iPhone owners will never even look at the minutia of specs. They will just be aware that a new iPhone has been launched and buy one regardless.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:10
Faust
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There is always something better on the horizon. When the PC industry was growing up, your new machine was out-of-date almost within weeks - whether it be a faster processor, more RAM, better graphics, the pace of innovation was incredible. I could almost guarantee the next issue of my favourite computer mag would have something in there that I wish my computer had before I purchased it several weeks ago.

Nowadays all of that PC stuff has slowed to crawl almost, but the mobile stuff is the industry packed full of innovation - better chips, new ideas, major software revisions and feature bumps happening all the time in a vastly competitive landscape. It's your mobile phone that feels outdated within weeks or months when someone else brings out a new model with nice new things - whether its software, hardware or a combination of both.

The bottom line is tomorrow never comes if as a company you insist on releasing the perfect phone with all the technology you could ever want to include. The likes of Apple have to nail down a final cutoff date when both the hardware and software spec is complete. The whole process of readying these new devices for mass production starts many many months out. And beyond that cutoff window, you'll undoubtedly uncover new technology and new ideas that you will want to include in a future iPhone - but if you want to sell a new product this year you cannot go back and delay because you'll keep delaying for eternity.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple has already finalised the spec for the iPhone 8, and while we're all dreaming about what iPhone 8 may have, their teams are already starting to prepare to begin work on iPhone 9.
Well if you read the entire article it actually says similar things. What it does accuse Apple of is a history of already having the tech available, but drip feeding it to customers so they can keep up the anticipation for next years models and rake in even more cash.

It then goes on to say Android by comparison puts features into their products as soon as they become available. It's a very interesting article.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:17
Mark in Essex
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That's because you're obsessed with the notion that people only like Apple products because of the logo.

While there may well be a tiny minority of people who unconditionally love all things Apple, the fact is that Apple sell tens of millions of these things - they can't all be buying them because of the logo.

Here's a thought, however controversial it might sound:

Maybe, just_maybe, people actually just like iPhones?
The simple fact of the matter is that surly it's better to have the same size phone with a bigger screen?

And I'm not saying only Apple make ridiculously large bezels, but especially for the price they charge you would expect them to use better technology and design and make a phone with a smaller bezel?
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:20
Mark in Essex
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It's a bit difficult to tell from those shots given the phone is black but the bezels certainly look OTT. I don't care who makes the phone, if the aesthetics aren't good they aren't good.
Same here.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:21
Mark in Essex
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That is pure opinion.

I personally find the fingerprint reader on the Z5 in the perfect place. On the side exactly where your finger is anyway while holding any phone. The iphone's is not. For me that's awkward.
Also my wife has no problems with her LG G5 fingerprint sensor on the back.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:22
Mark in Essex
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So what's your opinion of the Google Pixel then? It's pretty much an iPhone clone...

http://media.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-conten...p_resize-2.png

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/10/now...s-pixel-party/
It looks shite and also has the stupidly large bezel.

just because it's Android and not Apple why would I change my opinion?

I'd consider any phone (whoever makes it) when I need a new phone be it Android, Windows or Apple - I don't rule any of them out, but look for a decent phone that suits my needs.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:44
calico_pie
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You can be as sarcastic as you like. However, the fact remains this years iPhone launch is nothing short of window dressing whilst holding back for the 10th Anniversary edition next year. Most pundits told you this well before launch and they weren't wrong.

I will also state this with absolute certainty - with the exception of tech forums such as DS etc. the majority of iPhone owners will never even look at the minutia of specs. They will just be aware that a new iPhone has been launched and buy one regardless.
Most pundits just trotted out the same lazy rumours and speculation as everyone else.

In your own post above, you listed a fair few improvements over the 6S (that other phones already had), so clearly it does have several improvements over the 6S.

When you said this:

with the exception of tech forums such as DS etc. the majority of iPhone owners will never even look at the minutia of specs. They will just be aware that a new iPhone has been launched and buy one regardless.

Did you actually mean to say this:

with the exception of tech forums such as DS etc. the majority of phone owners will never even look at the minutia of specs. They will just be aware that a new phone has been launched and buy one regardless.

What's with this bizarre assumption that iPhone users in particular go out and buy a new iPhone every year?

I would have thought that most upgrade every two years or more, in which case its far more likely that any new iPhone will be a substantial upgrade over most people's previous phone.

No-one's new smartphone these days is that much of an upgrade from the previous model - that's the nature of a matured product. It sure as heck isn't something specific to Apple.
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Old 04-10-2016, 14:07
d123
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just because it's Android and not Apple why would I change my opinion?
Sorry, I honestly don't remember asking you for an opinion, was it recent?
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Old 04-10-2016, 14:26
aurichie
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Well if you read the entire article it actually says similar things. What it does accuse Apple of is a history of already having the tech available, but drip feeding it to customers so they can keep up the anticipation for next years models and rake in even more cash.

It then goes on to say Android by comparison puts features into their products as soon as they become available. It's a very interesting article.
Apple tends to think very hard about the implantation of new technology to make it relevant and useable for as many people as possible. I don't think they purposefully drop feed it.

I will concede their decision to ship the original 6 Plus with just 1GB of RAM was a curious and frustrating one. It really needed the 2GB they put in the following year, but I want to believe they made a genuine mistake while trying to protect their target margin on each device sold. That's what usually happens they have a set target cost on all components used, and they have to make a judgement call on how to balance that cost. For example - the choice may have been shave a few bucks off with a cheaper image sensor, or give people a better camera and save a few bucks with just 1GB RAM. When you think about it like that, you can understand why they would have backed themselves to make iOS run beautifully on less RAM and give people a better camera. The camera means much more to people. Unfortunately the 6 Plus never really ran beautifully even with the shipping version of iOS at the time. And it definitely hasn't aged particularly well.
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Old 04-10-2016, 14:51
Faust
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Most pundits just trotted out the same lazy rumours and speculation as everyone else.

In your own post above, you listed a fair few improvements over the 6S (that other phones already had), so clearly it does have several improvements over the 6S.

When you said this:

with the exception of tech forums such as DS etc. the majority of iPhone owners will never even look at the minutia of specs. They will just be aware that a new iPhone has been launched and buy one regardless.

Did you actually mean to say this:

with the exception of tech forums such as DS etc. the majority of phone owners will never even look at the minutia of specs. They will just be aware that a new phone has been launched and buy one regardless.

What's with this bizarre assumption that iPhone users in particular go out and buy a new iPhone every year?

I would have thought that most upgrade every two years or more, in which case its far more likely that any new iPhone will be a substantial upgrade over most people's previous phone.

No-one's new smartphone these days is that much of an upgrade from the previous model - that's the nature of a matured product. It sure as heck isn't something specific to Apple.
Well I claim that a huge number now change them every year as Apple have claimed how successful their yearly upgrade programme has been. Don't forget Apple has been running this scheme in the U.S. their biggest market for some time.

Apple also have a very large fashionista following who just have to have anything like an iPhone that's new. You have only to look at the almost rabid obsession with getting a matte black model - what's that all about? Will it work any better than one in rose gold, absolutely not and is just further evidence which backs up what I say.
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Old 04-10-2016, 15:04
Faust
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Apple tends to think very hard about the implantation of new technology to make it relevant and useable for as many people as possible. I don't think they purposefully drop feed it.

I will concede their decision to ship the original 6 Plus with just 1GB of RAM was a curious and frustrating one. It really needed the 2GB they put in the following year, but I want to believe they made a genuine mistake while trying to protect their target margin on each device sold. That's what usually happens they have a set target cost on all components used, and they have to make a judgement call on how to balance that cost. For example - the choice may have been shave a few bucks off with a cheaper image sensor, or give people a better camera and save a few bucks with just 1GB RAM. When you think about it like that, you can understand why they would have backed themselves to make iOS run beautifully on less RAM and give people a better camera. The camera means much more to people. Unfortunately the 6 Plus never really ran beautifully even with the shipping version of iOS at the time. And it definitely hasn't aged particularly well.
You really and honestly believe any of that? Apple make a heap of profit on every single iPhone they sell, so could easily offer more RAM and storage - if they so wished.

You have only to look at the Mac range for the same sort of behaviour. Take the iMac - they don't provide enough RAM but offer it at exorbitant prices which in a number of models has now to be ordered at the time of purchase due to the iMac's sealed nature. Storage is another area where they offer meagre amounts and then provide the upgrade option at eye popping prices.

The tech in the Mac and Mini is now so old it's grown whiskers and yet they are still charging the same price as launch day. No other company would dare get away with such business practices and yet Apple get away with it because their customers blindly accept anything that Apple feed them.
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Old 04-10-2016, 15:12
aurichie
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You really and honestly believe any of that? Apple make a heap of profit on every single iPhone they sell, so could easily offer more RAM and storage - if they so wished.
They could easily spend more on components yes, but that hurts margin, profit, and the share price. In recent years they have actually spent more and accepted a slightly lower overall margin. The fact is when you ship as many iPhones as does, adding a few bucks here and there on more expensive components can quickly add up to anything from hundreds of millions to many billions of dollars in lost profit. They are a business, they have shareholders they need to protect too, you have to be realistic.
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Old 04-10-2016, 15:43
Gigabit
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Don't feed the troll.
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Old 04-10-2016, 16:33
calico_pie
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Well I claim that a huge number now change them every year as Apple have claimed how successful their yearly upgrade programme has been. Don't forget Apple has been running this scheme in the U.S. their biggest market for some time.

Apple also have a very large fashionista following who just have to have anything like an iPhone that's new. You have only to look at the almost rabid obsession with getting a matte black model - what's that all about? Will it work any better than one in rose gold, absolutely not and is just further evidence which backs up what I say.
I guess it would be interesting to know what this huge number is expressed as a percentage.

Similarly, the percentage that is this fashionista.

One minute, its Apple selling everything to the fanboys, the next its about how Apple is so common now that everyone and his dog has iPhone. Which is it?

To be honest, I haven't seen this rabid obsession with getting a matte black model. Is this a reference to a few anecdotal articles on the net?

Heck, I'm sure some would describe me as some sort of rabid Apple nut, and even I only get a new phone about every 3 years.
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