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The DS Eurovision General Discussion Thread (Part 61)


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Old 21-05-2016, 14:42
DamienS
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I'm intrigued by the comment about it seeming more innocent in the mid-00s. I can sense that a little bit too, & I'm trying to pinpoint when it was that the contest became more politicised & argumentative.
2007/2008 was when I noticed it most. It really took off after Terry's comments in 2008, but the voting in 2007 was dodgy too. The winning song wasn't well received, the votes all went to that part of Europe and it just seemed to be the last straw.
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Old 21-05-2016, 15:51
Fudd
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Eurovision quiz question for a Saturday afternoon - aplogies if this has been mentioned already:

What or who connects Euro 2016 (the football competition) to Eurovision 2012?
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Old 21-05-2016, 16:06
vauxhall1964
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2007/2008 was when I noticed it most. It really took off after Terry's comments in 2008, but the voting in 2007 was dodgy too. The winning song wasn't well received, the votes all went to that part of Europe and it just seemed to be the last straw.
i know at the time 2007 was seen as some "Eastern hijack" of the contest (I was in Helsinki and that was the feeling of fans) but if you look at the voting Western televoters just preferred Eastern songs and who could blame them? Verka, Serebro, Koldun, 'Molitva', and the best Bulgarian song until Poli this year, versus Scooch, Dervish, Les fatals picards, Drama Queen and Guri Schanke! I thought only Eastern votes could've got "Unsubstantial blues" into the final but when you look the Western televoters voted for it more than the East.

2007 was a clear example of when Eastern countries could beat us at our own game and we didn't like it so made excuses. The EBU said the Western countries needed to send better songs...and they were right and they did in the years that followed
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Old 21-05-2016, 16:18
Pandora.
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i know at the time 2007 was seen as some "Eastern hijack" of the contest (I was in Helsinki and that was the feeling of fans) but if you look at the voting Western televoters just preferred Eastern songs and who could blame them? Verka, Serebro, Koldun, 'Molitva', and the best Bulgarian song until Poli this year, versus Scooch, Dervish, Les fatals picards, Drama Queen and Guri Schanke! I thought only Eastern votes could've got "Unsubstantial blues" into the final but when you look the Western televoters voted for it more than the East.
The mid-late 00s (actually, maybe the 00s as a whole) are a minefield to dissect. Many Western countries (especially the UK, France) were clearly tiring of it and resorting to entering utter dross, which created a bit of a vicious circle. Many of the Western entries - and I'm aware that I'm generalising to an extent here - weren't remotely close to the kind of music either Western or Eastern voters would enjoy, and I'm not even talking about chart-sounding songs. Meanwhile, the Eastern nations were really getting into it, sending their biggest stars and/or the sort of music enjoyed by those states. The contest was in a strange state of limbo between being small and technologically limited and being the huge, visual spectacle it is today, hence why Dima Bilan's performance - though looked down on by many here - tapped into the sense of awe held by many.

For me, it's understandable why so many votes went that way. Ironically, the juries that were brought in to sort out the public voting problems seem, to me at least, to be more worrying than the televote ever was, but so many factors affect the production and reception of the songs from year to year than it's very difficult to pin down who or what causes any voting issues.

As of now, I think we're on a more level playing field. The contest is creeping up in the estimation of many across the continent, and as such the quality/appeal of songs is higher across both east and west. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the jury was removed next year - I'd put my money on there being much fewer "political" patterns.
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Old 21-05-2016, 16:29
EuroFoxi
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Eurovision quiz question for a Saturday afternoon - aplogies if this has been mentioned already:

What or who connects Euro 2016 (the football competition) to Eurovision 2012?
Probably totally wrong, but didn't Gaitana have something to do with the euros in 2012? Obviously not the answer now as it's not in Ukraine. Ok, count me out, pass.
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Old 21-05-2016, 17:41
Saturn
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The mid-late 00s (actually, maybe the 00s as a whole) are a minefield to dissect. Many Western countries (especially the UK, France) were clearly tiring of it and resorting to entering utter dross, which created a bit of a vicious circle. Many of the Western entries - and I'm aware that I'm generalising to an extent here - weren't remotely close to the kind of music either Western or Eastern voters would enjoy, and I'm not even talking about chart-sounding songs. Meanwhile, the Eastern nations were really getting into it, sending their biggest stars and/or the sort of music enjoyed by those states. The contest was in a strange state of limbo between being small and technologically limited and being the huge, visual spectacle it is today, hence why Dima Bilan's performance - though looked down on by many here - tapped into the sense of awe held by many.

For me, it's understandable why so many votes went that way. Ironically, the juries that were brought in to sort out the public voting problems seem, to me at least, to be more worrying than the televote ever was, but so many factors affect the production and reception of the songs from year to year than it's very difficult to pin down who or what causes any voting issues.

As of now, I think we're on a more level playing field. The contest is creeping up in the estimation of many across the continent, and as such the quality/appeal of songs is higher across both east and west. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the jury was removed next year - I'd put my money on there being much fewer "political" patterns.
Have you actually looked at the televotes from this year? The wikipedia summary of the 12s is embarrassing. Serbia got 6 12s - Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Switzerland. That's 72 points from their block and they only got 8 elsewhere!

Bosnia even managed 4 12s in the semi - Austria, Croatia, Montenegro and Sweden.

There's no reason to believe the voting would become any better if they scrapped the juries. Personally I preferred last year's system that allowed juries to wipe out the diaspora votes if the song was crap.
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Old 21-05-2016, 17:46
ESC Ross
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My memories didn't start until 2005...but I first became a proper fan in 2008/2009.

I was first more aware of the contest as I heard Katie Price would take part in our selection, and I clearly remember watching the selection, and then the contest

and another good memory was in 2006 when I was in the final year of primary school (Yr 6). During the week of the contest Granada reports, the regional news came into our school to film our year group singing Teenage life in the school assembly. I remember it was on the news the days before the final, and our head at the time giving an interview saying we could win etc...

And then I watched every year, with 2009, and 2011, Kati wolf being highlights of how I became a fan haha
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Old 21-05-2016, 17:53
Fudd
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Probably totally wrong, but didn't Gaitana have something to do with the euros in 2012? Obviously not the answer now as it's not in Ukraine. Ok, count me out, pass.
Anyone else want a guess?:

What or who connects Euro 2016 (the football competition) to Eurovision 2012?
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Old 21-05-2016, 18:08
Cuishla
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Anyone else want a guess?:

What or who connects Euro 2016 (the football competition) to Eurovision 2012?
I think I read somewhere that the Icelandic goalkeeper directed Icelands video for their entry that year?
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Old 21-05-2016, 18:12
Fudd
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I think I read somewhere that the Icelandic goalkeeper directed Icelands video for their entry that year?
That's the one. That's quite a switch - from directing music videos to keeping goals!
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Old 21-05-2016, 20:40
DamienS
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Watching britains got talent and thinking that girl group (zyrah?) would be great for Eurovision! Haha
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Old 21-05-2016, 20:48
nick1990
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Watching britains got talent and thinking that girl group (zyrah?) would be great for Eurovision! Haha
Just catching up after pausing for the FA Cup extra time, and I quite agree! They would be great for Eurovision! Great voices! As long as they don't come across as being too aggressive!
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Old 21-05-2016, 20:52
Lisa.B
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Watching britains got talent and thinking that girl group (zyrah?) would be great for Eurovision! Haha
They made Dull Sheeran listenable! Would need to ditch the 90s girlband attire and find a proper stylist.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:17
Lisa.B
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Vitaly from the Belarus NF has been put through as semi final canon fodder in BGT.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:34
EuroFoxi
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Why have I only just discovered this? This guy is so much better than Josh Dubovie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10yMxCTHLPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWXGXb3ZG1o

It's still horrific, and Esma would've been a better choice had she not 'accidently' messed it up.

But Josh, just no.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:35
starry
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What I don't get in the new system is how the televote is relegated to some accumulated total, as if to say that the juries somehow represent somewhere better. There is no way that 5 people represent somewhere better. If anything should be an added accumulated vote it's the juries, as they are all supposed to be objective and without any regional bias. Quite apart from the fact that those who vote want to know how their vote fits into the overall vote that was counted for their area.

The Swedes just had the ego to think that something that is done in their preselection should somehow work for a completely different kind of contest.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:37
EuroFoxi
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Also, I finally realised where Laila Samuels got the inspiration for her staging from...
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:38
starry
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2007 was a clear example of when Eastern countries could beat us at our own game and we didn't like it so made excuses. The EBU said the Western countries needed to send better songs...and they were right and they did in the years that followed
As well as continually fiddling with the rules, even up to the present.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:45
DamienS
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Why have I only just discovered this? This guy is so much better than Josh Dubovie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10yMxCTHLPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWXGXb3ZG1o

It's still horrific, and Esma would've been a better choice had she not 'accidently' messed it up.

But Josh, just no.
He was atrocious and esma? Well I don't think I've heard something so awful on tv. The song, the voice, the stage...2010 was by far our lowest point in Eurovision history!
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:47
DamienS
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I think they could compromise with the voting. Have the 2013-15 system in the semi (then only good songs with diaspora can make it) then have the new voting in the final. It has faults, but it was gripping.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:51
Lisa.B
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Why have I only just discovered this? This guy is so much better than Josh Dubovie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10yMxCTHLPk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWXGXb3ZG1o

It's still horrific, and Esma would've been a better choice had she not 'accidently' messed it up.

But Josh, just no.
Why would you want to discover it? A lot of time and therapy went into burying those painful memories.
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Old 21-05-2016, 21:52
EuroFoxi
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He was atrocious and esma? Well I don't think I've heard something so awful on tv. The song, the voice, the stage...2010 was by far our lowest point in Eurovision history!
Well I still didn't say it was good.

But Josh was just so cheesy and so was the song. It was just overkill. #ESCFlashback
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Old 21-05-2016, 22:00
Alicey
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I'm still amazed that 4 countries opted to give points to "That Sounds Good To Me"
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Old 21-05-2016, 22:24
nick1990
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I'm still amazed that 4 countries opted to give points to "That Sounds Good To Me"
This!

I am still shocked they gave us points! Why one earth! It was a distant 25th on my list! And I still cant find any redeeming factors!
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Old 21-05-2016, 22:35
gottago
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I'll never forget Pete Waterman's criticism of the finalists not pronouncing their words correctly during the rehearsals even though he'd just handed them one of the worst songs known to man.

Esma did have something quite interesting in her voice but it was hard to make the most of it when she was singing some 80s dross and Waterman's horror.

I honestly think if I'd have been one of the artists on that NF I would have walked out the moment I'd heard that song the first time. No one's career would have been boosted by representing the UK in 2010.
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