If Ben had bought Piper a new laptop that wasn't made by Apple, I'm sure Terese would have asked Piper where she got the money from to get it. For all Piper knows, Ben could be a good saver and have quite a bit in the bank. In terms of needing to do a video for her grandad's funeral, she needed it. There's a lot of things we don't NEED in life, but we 'need' them so we can do things.

She had a Macbook before. You can't expect her to go from that to some budget laptop. She is doing something useful with the new laptop, unlike Xanthe who wanted plastic surgery. Xanthe is not unique. She was very immature about wanting to get plastic surgery. She didn't listen to anybody.

She has self esteem issues caused by her mother. She's a child who has been screwed up by a parent and she needs help and support to get over that and see herself as she really is. Piper could have borrowed a laptop or claimed on the insurance. Instead she very childishly accepted a gift from a fellow child that she knew he couldn't afford. The new Macs are well over a grand and don't do anything that special. I miss my old Sony Vaio every time I switch on my Mac Book.

Exactly.

Piper is doing something useful and actually made a breakthrough in the case by interviewing Paul.

Yet she gets lambasted and told she shouldn't have ever accepted the laptop as if she was smuggling cocaine.

Meanwhile, Xanthe is getting plastic surgery and no has one bad thing to say about it.

How about she doesn't do her vlog until she has saved the money to buy a new laptop herself?

Or she talks to her parents to see if they will buy her a new one, or forward her the money which she can then oay them back? Why doesn't she get a job to pay for the luxury items she apparently needs?

Sorry, but as far as i'm concerned, if you break something, even by accident, then you have to replace it and you don't do so until you can afford to. Until that time, you do without. That's life - if you want nice things you have to work for them, once you have them you take care of them (and usually take out insurance in case of accidents) and if something does happen you either claim on insurance or you work again until you can afford to replace it.

As i keep asking, why didn't she just tell Brad or Terese who would probably have been able to claim on the Insurance? Also, wasn't their a computer at the School or Library or somebody's she could borrow (Brad and Terese probably both have one, Brad definitely does) to finish the video for the funerals as that did need to be done urgently, before an insurance payout would have come through.

I'm not excusing Xanthe - stealing the money was wrong, spending it on frivolities like clothes was wrong (for all the reasons i've said above, you want nice things, you wprk for them and if not earning, that includes stuff like helping your parents round the house to earn extra allowance if not old enough to get a 'proper' job. But the plastic surgery cane from what appear to be quite deep seated body image issues so she has my sympathy. I'd say she believed she 'needed' the operation every bit as much as Piper felt she 'needed' to do the videos for the funerals and her vlogging.

I also quite like Tyler by the way, he's a pleasant change in being laid back and fairly considerate even if he is sometimes a bit dim. I'm really beginning to like Aaron who seems like a combination of the better parts of Mark and Tyler and the actor is improving a lot. Still far from great but he is getting there.

Sorry but in what world is Piper plain? Where do you live? Beverly Hills? I'm sorry Piper doesn't look like Kym Kardashian. Perhaps she should spend 20k of Tom Quill's money on implants.

Piper is really cool and has the best style on the show!

When my children got laptops they were offered a basic one and if they wanted more than that they could earn it or contribute. They both learned that if you want something nice or expensive that it doesn't just fall in your lap and they both have a decent spec on their laptops (which aren't Macs as children don't need one when something a third of the price does just as well). My little man has my old Sony and is saving up and doing little chores to add to his birthday budget for a new laptop - he's 8 and knows nothing in life is free. Even at that age he would understand taking that sort of money from a friend is unacceptable as is stealing. There's nothing wrong with a £400 laptop - a new Air is currently around £1200.

How long would it take a 16yo on min wage to buy a Macbook? She had urgent things to do on the laptop. She was in the middle of a tribute to Doug when it got damaged. Bear in mind when you're young waiting for things you want feels like an age.

She did try to get a job at the coffee shop but of course Xanthe was given it out of pity.

Again, Piper is now in ownership of a laptop. Not drugs, guns or anything illegal. Laptops aren't accessories these days. They are part of day to day life. How would she do her school work without it?

If Piper wanted to lose it, than she would have made a big deal about it. I think she is happy being her. Tyler clearly needs it, so i can see why some may find the two of them in different places.

The mere fact they needed to buy one that Terese wouldn't ask about indicates they knew it was wrong. Why couldn't Piper just tell Terese what happened to get a replacement - it was an accident after all - as people keep saying - household insurance. Also, she could have used somebody else's computer to prepare the video. I agree that unless she was to let people down re not producing the video for the funeral as she'd said she would, she Needed (not just wanted) access to a laptop that day. But it didn't have to be a new one that she'd then keep. It could have been a borrowed one and then look at replacing it after the funerals, consulting with her parents about cost, insurance etc.

Ben's circumstances are similar to her own in that one parent (or parental figure) is a teacher, one has a professional job. In fact, Terese is probably better paid than Karl as he is a Doctor in the Public sector. She knows his Dad is dead and his Mum is leaving all parenting decisions to Karl and Susan. So again, where would he get that kind of money from? If he could save it out of just a standard allowance from middle class guardians - why couldn't she?

She even said "i don't know ehere he got that kind of money" so she recognised it was odd and if it were me (and i can only judge by my own standards) i would have asked more about where it came from. Aside from anything else, if he had saved it, it would have taken him months, maybe years so it is too much to just give away. What if he'd been saving it for something important that he 'needed' like a better guitar or concert tickets?

Of course Xanthe is worse, she first conned their way into the room, then stole the money, then convinced Ben to keep it, then started spending it. That is much, much worse than Piper accepting an extravagant gift when she knew it was odd Ben had so much money and then keeping it when she learnt the truth - there is no doubt about that. But i don't think anybody has ever tried to argue that Xanthe didn't do the wrong thing. They have Piper and Ben.

But I know many find these circular arguments tiresome so i'm going to back out now, I've said what i think and why, it won't change. I of course respect others differing opinions.

It's not fair to say I am simply trying to get a reaction when all I am doing, and have done since January is defending a character I like who to be fair, has got A LOT of criticism on here.

Xanthe's issues are borne out of her shallowness. Again, I don't see Piper acting like that, she is a teenager also. Is this another case for Piper being deep? She certainly shows more maturity than Xanthe does.

It just seems that things I was saying ages ago are now being brought to fruition on screen and proving me right all along.

The same crap vlog that found Paul to be innocent, helped raise awareness for alzheimers, found Ned was innocent and so on. Now you can see why she deserves the laptop considering the good things she has done on it.

Xanthie's character is great and her storylines has been amazing. Piper apart from the explosion(i think the actress and her onscreen mum both acted the best out off all). Piper has been so annoying lately and she is just so boring.

The mere fact of how long it would take her to ear it indicates why it was too expensive a gift to accept - no matter how Ben had come by the money!

As said, she could have borrowed a computer to finish the tribute - plenty of people in the street have them and would have helped her in a second given the circumstances.

The equivalent in my teens, when my Grandparents died, would have been editing together a video tape from cine film, or maybe making a compilation audio tape of favorite songs. Both things i was rather good at. Had my tape recorder or video recorder broken during this process, i would have called a friend, or my brother to ask if i could borrow theirs and that i needed it urgently as the funeral was later in the day. I would then have talked to my parents about it afterwards and chances are, the would either have said "no problem, we can send it for repairs as it is under warranty or claim on the insurance" or "that's unfortunate, maybe we can get you a new one rather than wait for ages but you'll need to pay us back or it is your birthday present early" etc or if they didn't have the money (which is possible) or they felt I'd not taken enough care looking after it they'd have said "well that's horrible, we know you used it a lot but you are going to have save your pocket money or get a paper round etc to earn the money to replace it, maybe you'll be more careful next time"

That was the reality of my childhood/teenage years and I think it was for most people, at least of my age when people didn't get everything on credit.

Yes, it does feel like ages waiting for things when you're young, i remember it well. It feels like ages waiting for things now if it is very expensive and i need to put some of my income aside each month (i despise using credit cards unless i absolutely have to) but that's life. Other things have to come first and the world doesn't owe you a living.

I do know for sure that if my friend had shown up with an expensive tape player or video recorder costing several hundred pounds (as they did back then) i would not have accepted it because i would have known that it was too extravagant and that they shouldn't be able to afford it so they must have done something like clear out money they'd spent years saving or 'borrowed' one of their parents credit cards.

I have to be honest, I really don't care how Piper does her vlogging because it bores me to tears.

But a part of every day life is learning you can't just snap your fingers and get what you want immediately. At 16 Piper's much too old to not have learned that lesson. And as noted by the suggestions already mentioned, there are plenty of other reasonable ways to do her schoolwork and write her vlogs.

Piper's still in possession of stolen property. If someone had handed her drugs, guns or anythng illegal and she kept them for herself, she'd be charged, she couldn't tell the police 'but it's only a few drugs/gun or whatever else, it's urgent I really need them right now' as if that made it okay. She's breaking the law.

She wasn't criticised until YOU started going on and on like she was some sort of amazing actress and character. I thought you were a teenage girl then a young man with a crush so to find out a man in his 30s is obsessed to this extent by a child on the telly is a bit odd.

Xanthe's issues are from her mother's shallowness not her own. She's been made to feel like she's fat and ugly from being very young. No wonder she feels the way she does.

The crap blog hasn't found Paul to be innocent or he wouldn't still be in court next week.

I've said it before but again - I think you either watch a different programme or have heavily tinted glasses. There is absolutely no point in trying to have a rational discussion with you when you are either obsessed or taking the pee. All you've done so far is make us all see the bad side of Piper. This whole thing about the laptop is going on and on and on and will never end at this rate so for that reason I'm out.

If Piper's kiddie vlog has shown Paul to be innocent, why is he on trial next week?

Kitkat you seem to be sitting on the fence.

Sometimes you have to step out of the grey to see the colour.

On one hand you agree that friendships are a good start to a relationship but then say Tyler and Piper can be nothing more than friends. People are more complex than that. You can't just write something off based upon a generic opinion. Yes maybe it isn't ideal that there is an age gap but this so called school crush seems to have lasted longer than some marriages on RS.

Yes they did kiss and they have argued since and have fallen out since (for all of 2 mins). They then make up and are still friends. Piper said she couldn't be friends with Tyler anymore after he confessed to messing with the boiler. The next day they were back to normal. All of that would imply there is something there.

Different points in their life? Again, another generic statement. Karl and Susan were at the very same place in life and he had an affair.

Maybe their friendship should be judged as it's own entity and not as a benchmark for morality.

I know i said i'd stop but these are different points.

Some people (teenaged or not) are just naturally more comfortable in their own skin and have better sense of self worth. Are anorexics 'shallow'? Are people that don't succumb to body dismorphia in all its forms somehow 'better' people than those that do? They've made it clear that Xanthe actually hates herself and doesn't see herself as others do. It wasn't just a case of her being a spoilt brat wanting a more expensive dress because she'd look that bit prettier than in the one she already had. She hates herself.

It seems clear that she hates herself because of how her Mother brought her up. Encourage you child to eat healthily and exercise, yes, but nobody should ever tell their child, let alone at 10 (i think it was7) that she is fat.

Do you think Terese ever said something like that to Piper? Or do you think she was given positive affirmation aboout her looks, being clever, creative and encouraged to 'think big' and supported in becoming her own person?

That doesn't make Piper deep or a better person than Xanthe, it makes her luckier than Xanthe as she has had loving, supportive parents and siblings.

I'm sorry but Piper's laptop has proved nothing. Her 'interviewing' Paul convinced her but everybody that has sat down and properly talked to Paul (Steph, Aaron) has been convinced of his innocence. Ned wasn't a suspect until she accused him, upsetting everybody in the process. The Police proved his innocence by verifying his whereabouts at the time of the explosion with the first aider at Lassiter. Her 'raising awareness' or Alzheimers involved continuing to stick a camera in the face of a clearly upset and disorientated man, aggravating him to such an extent that he accidentally hit her and his family decided they could no longer care for him and he'd need to go into a Care home.

You can not compare Piper to Xanthe. Piper has come from a loving family and had a good life. Xanthe has not, she has always felt she was never loved and never had a stable family life. So she acts shallow, she is acting out. Piper is behaving like a brat because she knows mummy and daddy will clean up her messes.

So now you are resorting to name calling? Sorry but I don't come on here for petty arguments, you seem to have got that wrong. It is best you don't discuss with me if that's how you want to play it.

I'm sorry I have a different opinion to you. I'm sorry I like a character you don't like/like/don't mind...whatever side of the middle of the fence you're sitting on today.

Obsessed? What do you suggest I talk about on a Neighbours forum? The weather? I also do like other characters apart from Piper but you conveniently don't mention that as it doesn't fit your agenda.

I know it's a rarity for someone to praise a character on here but I'm a leader not a follower.

Paul was found to be innocent in the general view of people on RS. I didn't say he was acquitted in court.

I could make comments about older women fancying younger men on the show but I don't live in the dark ages.

By the way MH is 20. But let's totally ignore that fact shall we.

Shown you the bad side of Piper? You should be able to form your own opinion.

I'm happy to discuss and debate but I suggest you leave the petty name calling/personal insults to one side as I am able to put forthwith my opinions without resorting to such underhand tactics.

Too true, Lady V. Does she 'have' to do her flogging? Will the world come to an end if she doesn't?

It\s a pretty feeble excuse for accepting an expensive gift like hat. AS the kids are now trying to recoup the money she should , if she has an ounce of decency, either sell it on ebay or get her parents to pay for it and reimburse Ben.

I'm not sitting on the fence, i'm commenting on different points.

Point 1 - in my experience, some very strong romantic/sexual relationships have started out as friendships so i agree with you on that.

Point 2 - I think there are legitimate concerns about any relationship which could be sexual between a 24 year old who is an adult and a 16 year old who is in limbo between childhood and adulthood.

Point 3 - generally (yes, that word, generally) i would not agree with a sexual relationship between a 16 and 24 year old even if it had started as a friendship. It it stays purely as a friendship for several years and develops into a romantic/sexual relationship if a few years when they are both very definitely adults, that is a different matter.

Generalizations aside, look at the specifics of this couple. We know sex is important to Tyler, he has said as much. He sees sex as part of a romantic relationship as most 24 year olds would. Piper made it clear that she wasn't ready to sleep with Chas, somebody she had been seeing for months in Canada and was 'in love' with. This suggests she is not ready for sex - which is perfectly reasonable for a 16 year old.

So, for sex alone, Tyler and Piper are currently at different points in their lives.

My position on this has remained unchanged ever since it first started being discussed months ago. There is no sitting on the fence.

As an aside, i don't think you can leave morality out of things - whether something feels 'right' to you morally has to be part of the decision making process, whether consciously or sub consciously. And for me, unless it is very exceptional circumstances (perhaps the 24 year old doesn't believe in sex before marriage) the differing levels in sexual maturity and expectations would make any relationship between a 24 year old and 16 year old morally dubious. Others might not, which is up to them.

As an aside, most people in RS still think Paul is guilty. They might think he didn't mean to do it, didn't mean to kill anybody, but they think he did it. Even Amy thinks that. The only people that really believe him are Steph and Aaron and it is Paul who has convinced them directly. Piper couldn't even convince her own parents that they might be wrong about believing he is guilty.

Really do need to stop now, i'm sure it is getting boring for other people and my signal keeps dropping out!

I think it is fair to say that you do have an obsession with MH, perhaps obsession is too strong a word? Im not sure that it is the right word but i cant think of another at the moment. However it does in some cases come across as an obsession as the majority your posts are Piper related. If the posts were not so frequent then the issue may disappear. Piper isnt the greatest character that Neighbours has had, she is good though. Just let the forum be for discussing Neighbours and not being about just Piper.

I don't deny that she is my fave character and I do like her. I'm sorry this offends so many people.

At the same time a lot of people have beef with her. This ensues in a debate.

I do defend her and I do post about her but other people post about her too and she is a key character at the moment.

I do post about other characters but it seems people choose to ignore that as it doesn't give them ammunition to insult me or label me as an obsessive.

I'm happy to take flack for being a Piper fan. I know how to hold my own. But when people start planting seeds and trying underhand tactics to make me look like something I'm not that's uncalled for really. All it really shows is that I'm winning the debate. The same people who imply someone in their 30's shouldn't like a 19/20 year old actress are the same who are more than happy to admire actors a lot younger than them. But I'm not about to call the kettle black.

Of course we are living in the age of hysteria. And we know which side of the scale that hysteria tips towards.

If we want to get petty and create an atmosphere of hysteria I could start accusing people of "bullying" a 16 yo soap character on here back in January. Well then SS came along and shook things up. There's no need for personal insults though. It has to be said some people take Neighbours way too seriously. It's 20 minutes a day out of reality, and us Pisceans do love an escape from reality. I know it's a wonder I manage to hold down a full time job, pay my rent and feed myself what with being such a Piper obsessive.