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EgyptAir Flight MS804 from Paris to Cairo 'disappears from radar'
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Tassium
23-05-2016
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“If it's true, an odd contradiction re there not being a distress call.

EgyptAir flight MS804 pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes just before crash'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7041936.html”

Elsewhere the claim is that the French TV report merely claimed this is what would have happened, not that it did happen.

So it seems likely that mere speculation is being reported as fact by The Independent.
all_night
23-05-2016
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“Elsewhere the claim is that the French TV report merely claimed this is what would have happened, not that it did happen.

So it seems likely that mere speculation is being reported as fact by The Independent.”

It does seem to be the done thing now for websites to just report whatever just to get hits, regardless if there is any truth and in some cases even if they know it is not true.
francie
23-05-2016
" An EgyptAir flight that crashed in the Mediterranean did not swerve and change direction before disappearing, an Egyptian official says.

The Airbus A320 was en route from Paris to Cairo with 66 people aboard when it vanished from radar early on Thursday.

Greece's defence minister said the plane turned 90 degrees left and then did a 360-degree turn towards the right before plummeting.

But a senior Egyptian aviation official said there was no unusual movement.

Ehab Azmy, the head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services, told Associated Press the plane had been flying at its normal height of 37,000ft (11,280m) before dropping off the radar. Some debris has since been found.

"That fact degrades what the Greeks are saying about the aircraft suddenly losing altitude before it vanished from radar," he said " http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36365256
francie
23-05-2016
Was chatting earlier with friend about the crashes (particularly into the sea) that have happened in recent years and both wondered why the "pingers" only last about 30 days. Anyway did a Google and came across this article http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-egy...-idUKKCN0YE1RX . It seems AirFrance, amongst others, haven't been slow in implementing the longer lasting batteries. 2018 seems a long way off.
egghead1
23-05-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“" An EgyptAir flight that crashed in the Mediterranean did not swerve and change direction before disappearing, an Egyptian official says.

The Airbus A320 was en route from Paris to Cairo with 66 people aboard when it vanished from radar early on Thursday.

Greece's defence minister said the plane turned 90 degrees left and then did a 360-degree turn towards the right before plummeting.

But a senior Egyptian aviation official said there was no unusual movement.

Ehab Azmy, the head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services, told Associated Press the plane had been flying at its normal height of 37,000ft (11,280m) before dropping off the radar. Some debris has since been found.

"That fact degrades what the Greeks are saying about the aircraft suddenly losing altitude before it vanished from radar," he said " http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36365256”


Tomorrow some Minister will say the plane didnt crash and it landed safely.
francie
23-05-2016
Originally Posted by egghead1:
“Tomorrow some Minister will say the plane didnt crash and it landed safely. ”

Obviously not following EgyptAir's twitter " EGYPTAIR Calls for media resources to be assured of the information they post or release and to abide by the official press releases issued by EGYPTAIR media center."
Tassium
23-05-2016
It's bad enough without all this stuff from Greece and Egypts officials.

As the Americans say, what gives?
adams66
23-05-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“" An EgyptAir flight that crashed in the Mediterranean did not swerve and change direction before disappearing, an Egyptian official says.

The Airbus A320 was en route from Paris to Cairo with 66 people aboard when it vanished from radar early on Thursday.

Greece's defence minister said the plane turned 90 degrees left and then did a 360-degree turn towards the right before plummeting.

But a senior Egyptian aviation official said there was no unusual movement.

Ehab Azmy, the head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services, told Associated Press the plane had been flying at its normal height of 37,000ft (11,280m) before dropping off the radar. Some debris has since been found.

"That fact degrades what the Greeks are saying about the aircraft suddenly losing altitude before it vanished from radar," he said " http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36365256”

So what, exactly, are the facts as we know them?
They say the plane swerved left and right, then it's reported that smoke was detected and the pilots chatted about this, then all these things are denied.

Surely officials making statements should be certain that they have actual facts before they open their mouths? I know people are desperate for answers but isn't it hugely irresponsible and stupid to make statements that simply aren't true? Far better, surely, to keep quiet until verifiable facts can be gathered.
coughthecat
23-05-2016
Originally Posted by adams66:
“So what, exactly, are the facts as we know them?
They say the plane swerved left and right, then it's reported that smoke was detected and the pilots chatted about this, then all these things are denied.

Surely officials making statements should be certain that they have actual facts before they open their mouths? I know people are desperate for answers but isn't it hugely irresponsible and stupid to make statements that simply aren't true? Far better, surely, to keep quiet until verifiable facts can be gathered.”

I agree ... but, I'd also have to say that everyone involved is in an impossible situation. If they say nothing, they're accused of 'concealing the facts', 'not caring about the families of those who died because those people deserve answers and they're not getting any', or the old classic of 'it's a cover-up'!

Admittedly, many of those criticisms come from armchair experts who seem to think that when a plane crashes, the rescuers turn up at the exact spot within half an hour, collect wreckage from the surface, lean over the side of the boat and grab the black boxes, haul them aboard, open them up and there inside is a written account of exactly what happened! I mean, how hard can it be?
skp20040
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Obviously not following EgyptAir's twitter " EGYPTAIR Calls for media resources to be assured of the information they post or release and to abide by the official press releases issued by EGYPTAIR media center."”

Good luck with that one Egyptair, whilst that is what should happen in all news stories we know with the public at times deranged thirst and demand for instant news (or they shout conspiracy) many outlets just go to print/air with anything with no thought for facts or feelings of those affected
laurielou
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“I agree ... but, I'd also have to say that everyone involved is in an impossible situation. If they say nothing, they're accused of 'concealing the facts', 'not caring about the families of those who died because those people deserve answers and they're not getting any', or the old classic of 'it's a cover-up'!

Admittedly, many of those criticisms come from armchair experts who seem to think that when a plane crashes, the rescuers turn up at the exact spot within half an hour, collect wreckage from the surface, lean over the side of the boat and grab the black boxes, haul them aboard, open them up and there inside is a written account of exactly what happened! I mean, how hard can it be? ”

I agree - but the problem is, if you start getting such big discrepancies in official versions and sweeping instant declarations from officials like "it can't possibly have been mechanical failure, it looks like it must have been terrorism" when they can't possibly know, it does start to sound as if agendas of one sort or another are at play. And of course that then starts to fuel all the conspiracy/coverup type theories.

It shouldn't be too hard, surely, just to say honestly what has been found and what hasn't at any given time and that 'no conclusions can yet be drawn'. As if it wasn't bad enough for the families without being able to trust what they're being told.
d'@ve
24-05-2016
Fact is that we can't even trust the latest "correction" issued from Egypt. We'll have to await the preliminary investigation findings before being able to do that. Until then, the spokesmen and media will just have to carry on guessing and I have no doubt that they will do just that.
Tidosho
24-05-2016
Does the lack of a a terrorist organisation claiming they did it make it more likely it was some kind of technical failure? They aren't usually that slow in saying, "it was us".
johnny_t
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by Tidosho:
“Does the lack of a a terrorist organisation claiming they did it make it more likely it was some kind of technical failure? They aren't usually that slow in saying, "it was us".”

Depends really. For example, pretty much everyone accepts that Lockerbie was a terrorist act, but I don't think anyone has claimed it, have they ? I believe Libya may have done, when it was politically expedient to do so, but later retracted it

To my mind, for it to have been anything else on this flight would have to be an enormously unfortunate coincidence
bri160356
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Was chatting earlier with friend about the crashes (particularly into the sea) that have happened in recent years and both wondered why the "pingers" only last about 30 days. Anyway did a Google and came across this article http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-egy...-idUKKCN0YE1RX . It seems AirFrance, amongst others, haven't been slow in implementing the longer lasting batteries. 2018 seems a long way off.”

Good post that francie, and a very interesting ‘link.

Not sure what to make of this sentence from the article though;

quote, “Egypt will analyze EgyptAir jet's black box if found intact: official”
johnny_t
24-05-2016
I know that there are so many conflicting stories on this, but has there been any large wreckage found or signifcant retrieval of bodies ?
bri160356
24-05-2016
BBC News:... “Egyptian forensics official says human remains retrieved from the crash site point to an explosion on board”.
anne_666
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Fact is that we can't even trust the latest "correction" issued from Egypt. We'll have to await the preliminary investigation findings before being able to do that. Until then, the spokesmen and media will just have to carry on guessing and I have no doubt that they will do just that.”

Yes I was thinking the same.
francie
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“BBC News:... “Egyptian forensics official says human remains retrieved from the crash site point to an explosion on board”.”

Dear me For some reason I've been thinking it was some sort of electrical fire, perhaps because no scum has claimed responsibility (if indeed it was a terrorist's bomb).
coughthecat
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“BBC News:... “Egyptian forensics official says human remains retrieved from the crash site point to an explosion on board”.”

When I first read that, I assumed there was some evidence of explosive residues or shrapnel impacts, but it seems as though it's only based on the fact that the body parts recovered so far are quite small.

I'm not entirely sure how much can really be concluded from that.
skp20040
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“BBC News:... “Egyptian forensics official says human remains retrieved from the crash site point to an explosion on board”.”

But with no trace of explosives

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/egyptair-c...091733891.html


The official added that "the logical explanation is that it was an explosion" but no traces of explosives have been found.


So it could have been many things that caused it
Tassium
24-05-2016
Surely a plane hitting the ocean at high speed would tend to cause lot's of little parts?

While a plane breaking up in the air would tend to larger parts.


The Egyptian authorities don't seem a good source of information.
Eater Sundae
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by skp20040:
“But with no trace of explosives

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/egyptair-c...091733891.html


The official added that "the logical explanation is that it was an explosion" but no traces of explosives have been found.


So it could have been many things that caused it”

Wouldn't a structural failure at 30+ thousand feet result in an explosion as the aircraft body depressurises - like bursting a balloon.

Surely this could explain "an explosion", without any explosives.
bri160356
24-05-2016
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“BBC News:... “Egyptian forensics official says human remains retrieved from the crash site point to an explosion on board”.”

followed by this:

EgyptAir crash: official dismisses claim that remains suggest blast.

Quote “Head of Egyptian forensics authority says claim by unnamed official is “completely false”
skp20040
24-05-2016
Apparently the plane had an overheating engine problem in 2013 but they do not think that is connected

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/latest-egy...152454813.html
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