"Several main locations"????
In a small area or a large area?
In a small area or a large area?
EgyptAir Flight MS804 from Paris to Cairo 'disappears from radar'
16 of 18
Originally Posted by Ethel_Fred:
“"Several main locations"????
In a small area or a large area?”
“"Several main locations"????
In a small area or a large area?”
We'll need to wait for more details when they've mapped it, but I'd guess it's in a relatively small area. They'd narrowed the search area down based on the black box pings, and as they've been searching for several days they'll have covered off part of that area already.
The 'main locations' will refer to significant pieces of the plane which are likely to have been scattered over the sea bed as they sank about 3km down. If an engine detached, it would have gone straight down, whereas a lighter and more bouyant section such as the tail could have been pushed by currents.
Originally Posted by Ethel_Fred:
“"Several main locations"????
In a small area or a large area?”
“"Several main locations"????
In a small area or a large area?”
If the plane was intact when it hit the water one would assume that the various larger components would be in a relatively confined area on the seabed, 9000 feet below the surface.
The aircraft will undoubtedly have disintegrated upon impact;… but to what extent remains to be seen. The two blackboxes are housed in the tail-plane but may have become separated from the fuselage.
How far the cockpit, passenger fuselage section, wings and tail-plane et al have actually separated and ‘drifted’ apart during the descent to the sea-bed also remains to be seen.
However, if the plane broke up mid-air before it impacted the ocean then the sea-bed debris field will be very significantly larger.
According to radar tracking reports Egypt Air MS804, quote;
“… turned sharply to the left, then 360 degrees to the right before disappearing from radar at 15,000 feet ”
The UK AAIB report ‘number 2/90’ on the explosion that destroyed Pan Am flight 103 (Lockerbie) in 1988 has a rather chilling similarity;
“The main portion of the aircraft simultaneously entered a manoeuvre involving a marked nose down and left roll altitude change ”
“The fuselage separation was apparently complete within 3 seconds of the explosion ”
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“We'll need to wait for more details when they've mapped it, but I'd guess it's in a relatively small area. They'd narrowed the search area down based on the black box pings, and as they've been searching for several days they'll have covered off part of that area already.
The 'main locations' will refer to significant pieces of the plane which are likely to have been scattered over the sea bed as they sank about 3km down. If an engine detached, it would have gone straight down, whereas a lighter and more bouyant section such as the tail could have been pushed by currents.”
“We'll need to wait for more details when they've mapped it, but I'd guess it's in a relatively small area. They'd narrowed the search area down based on the black box pings, and as they've been searching for several days they'll have covered off part of that area already.
The 'main locations' will refer to significant pieces of the plane which are likely to have been scattered over the sea bed as they sank about 3km down. If an engine detached, it would have gone straight down, whereas a lighter and more bouyant section such as the tail could have been pushed by currents.”
An engine falling through a body of water that is moving (currents) will travel with that body of water and not go vertically down.
Originally Posted by SaturnV:
“An engine falling through a body of water that is moving (currents) will travel with that body of water and not go vertically down.”
“An engine falling through a body of water that is moving (currents) will travel with that body of water and not go vertically down.”
My use of the phrase 'straight down' was incorrect as currents would have an effect, but as an engine has a high mass and a relatively low surface area, gravity would have by far the greatest effect on its trajectory.
The point I was making (probably not very well!) is that dense components such as a detached engine would drop at an angle closer to the vertical than less dense components such as a section of the wing or tail which would be more affected by currents. As such, sections of the aircraft will be scattered.
In a similar way, the debris field on the ground can indicate if a crashed plane broke up in mid-air. If it did, the various components will be scattered as the path of each piece will vary due to the aerodynamic forces on them as they fell.
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“My use of the phrase 'straight down' was incorrect as currents would have an effect, but as an engine has a high mass and a relatively low surface area, gravity would have by far the greatest effect on its trajectory.
The point I was making (probably not very well!) is that dense components such as a detached engine would drop at an angle closer to the vertical than less dense components such as a section of the wing or tail which would be more affected by currents. As such, sections of the aircraft will be scattered.
In a similar way, the debris field on the ground can indicate if a crashed plane broke up in mid-air. If it did, the various components will be scattered as the path of each piece will vary due to the aerodynamic forces on them as they fell.”
“My use of the phrase 'straight down' was incorrect as currents would have an effect, but as an engine has a high mass and a relatively low surface area, gravity would have by far the greatest effect on its trajectory.
The point I was making (probably not very well!) is that dense components such as a detached engine would drop at an angle closer to the vertical than less dense components such as a section of the wing or tail which would be more affected by currents. As such, sections of the aircraft will be scattered.
In a similar way, the debris field on the ground can indicate if a crashed plane broke up in mid-air. If it did, the various components will be scattered as the path of each piece will vary due to the aerodynamic forces on them as they fell.”
They won't flutter around as lighter, more aerodynamic parts would but will move laterally at the same speed the body of water is moving at.
Originally Posted by SaturnV:
“They won't flutter around as lighter, more aerodynamic parts would but will move laterally at the same speed the body of water is moving at.”
“They won't flutter around as lighter, more aerodynamic parts would but will move laterally at the same speed the body of water is moving at.”
I never said they'd flutter around ... but I think you know that!
Originally Posted by SaturnV:
“An engine falling through a body of water that is moving (currents) will travel with that body of water and not go vertically down.”
“An engine falling through a body of water that is moving (currents) will travel with that body of water and not go vertically down.”
The currents in that part of the Levantine Sea will likely be very slight. I don’t think sub-sea currents in that area would have any significant effect on a several(??) ton aircraft engine plummeting to the sea-bed;
...however, I could be wrong;…I’ve been wrong before.
EgyptAir MS804 plane voice recorder recovered from Med http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464
" The cockpit voice recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month has been found in the Mediterranean, Egyptian investigators say.
The "black box" was damaged and had to be pulled out in several stages but its memory unit is intact, they said. "
In a statement, investigators said: "The vessel's equipment was able to salvage the part [of the recorder] that contains the memory unit, which is considered the most important part of the recording device."
The recorder will now be taken to the Egyptian city of Alexandria to be studied. "
That's some positive news.
" The cockpit voice recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month has been found in the Mediterranean, Egyptian investigators say.
The "black box" was damaged and had to be pulled out in several stages but its memory unit is intact, they said. "
In a statement, investigators said: "The vessel's equipment was able to salvage the part [of the recorder] that contains the memory unit, which is considered the most important part of the recording device."
The recorder will now be taken to the Egyptian city of Alexandria to be studied. "
That's some positive news.
Originally Posted by francie:
“EgyptAir MS804 plane voice recorder recovered from Med http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464
" The cockpit voice recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month has been found in the Mediterranean, Egyptian investigators say.
The "black box" was damaged and had to be pulled out in several stages but its memory unit is intact, they said. "
In a statement, investigators said: "The vessel's equipment was able to salvage the part [of the recorder] that contains the memory unit, which is considered the most important part of the recording device."
The recorder will now be taken to the Egyptian city of Alexandria to be studied. "
That's some positive news.”
“EgyptAir MS804 plane voice recorder recovered from Med http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464
" The cockpit voice recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month has been found in the Mediterranean, Egyptian investigators say.
The "black box" was damaged and had to be pulled out in several stages but its memory unit is intact, they said. "
In a statement, investigators said: "The vessel's equipment was able to salvage the part [of the recorder] that contains the memory unit, which is considered the most important part of the recording device."
The recorder will now be taken to the Egyptian city of Alexandria to be studied. "
That's some positive news.”
Indeed!
Let's hope they can get the information from the CVR, and that they can recover the FDR too.
Press release from Deep Open Search, just giving some details of the operation.
http://www.deepoceansearch.com/DOS%2...%20release.pdf
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“Indeed!
Let's hope they can get the information from the CVR, and that they can recover the FDR too.
Press release from Deep Open Search, just giving some details of the operation.
http://www.deepoceansearch.com/DOS%2...%20release.pdf”
“Indeed!
Let's hope they can get the information from the CVR, and that they can recover the FDR too.
Press release from Deep Open Search, just giving some details of the operation.
http://www.deepoceansearch.com/DOS%2...%20release.pdf”
Thanks will have a read later on.
The Flight Data Recorder has now been recovered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“The Flight Data Recorder has now been recovered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134”
“The Flight Data Recorder has now been recovered.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134”
Welcomed news, thanks!
Originally Posted by francie:
“EgyptAir MS804 plane voice recorder recovered from Med http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464
" The cockpit voice recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month has been found in the Mediterranean, Egyptian investigators say.
The "black box" was damaged and had to be pulled out in several stages but its memory unit is intact, they said. "
In a statement, investigators said: "The vessel's equipment was able to salvage the part [of the recorder] that contains the memory unit, which is considered the most important part of the recording device."
The recorder will now be taken to the Egyptian city of Alexandria to be studied. "
That's some positive news.”
“EgyptAir MS804 plane voice recorder recovered from Med http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464
" The cockpit voice recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month has been found in the Mediterranean, Egyptian investigators say.
The "black box" was damaged and had to be pulled out in several stages but its memory unit is intact, they said. "
In a statement, investigators said: "The vessel's equipment was able to salvage the part [of the recorder] that contains the memory unit, which is considered the most important part of the recording device."
The recorder will now be taken to the Egyptian city of Alexandria to be studied. "
That's some positive news.”
…some good news in what was otherwise a very bleak news day.
The update from the Egyptian authorities is certainly positive but it would have been nice to have just a few more details;…however, it seems we’ll only have details from Alseamar and Deep Ocean Search when the Egyptians authorize info such as that to be released, which I guess is their prerogative.
Was the CVR blackbox the one that was actually ‘pinging’ or is the FDR blackbox still pinging away but as yet still not accurately located?...the two blackboxes usually sit side by side in the tail-plane.
To the best of my knowledge the search teams are unable to differentiate between the ‘pings’ from the two blackboxes and they wouldn’t have known which blackbox was ‘pinging’ until they’d actually visually seen it with the RUV’s cameras.
However, despite the lack of regular updates from the Egyptians in recent days, the specialists on the’ Laplace’ and ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ have obviously done a magnificent job of locating the wreckage and recovering the CVR blackbox.
It makes one wonder why the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) objected to ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ being used in the search for Malaysian Airways MH370, citing a “lack of efficiency” ;
….successfully locating and retrieving a blackbox, lying in 9000 feet of water inside tangled wreckage, within 5-days of being on site seems efficient enough to me!
I’m extremely confident that the FDR blackbox (whether it’s ‘pinging’ or not) will soon be recovered.
edit: just read that the FDR has been recovered;...they really are efficient!
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“…some good news in what was otherwise a very bleak news day.
The update from the Egyptian authorities is certainly positive but it would have been nice to have just a few more details;…however, it seems we’ll only have details from Alseamar and Deep Ocean Search when the Egyptians authorize info such as that to be released, which I guess is their prerogative.
Was the CVR blackbox the one that was actually ‘pinging’ or is the FDR blackbox still pinging away but as yet still not accurately located?...the two blackboxes usually sit side by side in the tail-plane.
To the best of my knowledge the search teams are unable to differentiate between the ‘pings’ from the two blackboxes and they wouldn’t have known which blackbox was ‘pinging’ until they’d actually visually seen it with the RUV’s cameras.
However, despite the lack of regular updates from the Egyptians in recent days, the specialists on the’ Laplace’ and ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ have obviously done a magnificent job of locating the wreckage and recovering the CVR blackbox.
It makes one wonder why the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) objected to ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ being used in the search for Malaysian Airways MH370, citing a “lack of efficiency” ;
….successfully locating and retrieving a blackbox, lying in 9000 feet of water inside tangled wreckage, within 5-days of being on site seems efficient enough to me!
I’m extremely confident that the FDR blackbox (whether it’s ‘pinging’ or not) will soon be recovered.
edit: just read that the FDR has been recovered;...they really are efficient!”
“…some good news in what was otherwise a very bleak news day.
The update from the Egyptian authorities is certainly positive but it would have been nice to have just a few more details;…however, it seems we’ll only have details from Alseamar and Deep Ocean Search when the Egyptians authorize info such as that to be released, which I guess is their prerogative.
Was the CVR blackbox the one that was actually ‘pinging’ or is the FDR blackbox still pinging away but as yet still not accurately located?...the two blackboxes usually sit side by side in the tail-plane.
To the best of my knowledge the search teams are unable to differentiate between the ‘pings’ from the two blackboxes and they wouldn’t have known which blackbox was ‘pinging’ until they’d actually visually seen it with the RUV’s cameras.
However, despite the lack of regular updates from the Egyptians in recent days, the specialists on the’ Laplace’ and ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ have obviously done a magnificent job of locating the wreckage and recovering the CVR blackbox.
It makes one wonder why the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) objected to ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ being used in the search for Malaysian Airways MH370, citing a “lack of efficiency” ;
….successfully locating and retrieving a blackbox, lying in 9000 feet of water inside tangled wreckage, within 5-days of being on site seems efficient enough to me!
I’m extremely confident that the FDR blackbox (whether it’s ‘pinging’ or not) will soon be recovered.
edit: just read that the FDR has been recovered;...they really are efficient!
”
They really have done well to recover the 2 in such a short time. Kudos.
Judging by the inaccuracies / retracting perhaps the Egyptians are now playing it ultra safe re any information.
Originally Posted by francie:
“They really have done well to recover the 2 in such a short time. Kudos.
Judging by the inaccuracies / retracting perhaps the Egyptians are now playing it ultra safe re any information.”
“They really have done well to recover the 2 in such a short time. Kudos.
Judging by the inaccuracies / retracting perhaps the Egyptians are now playing it ultra safe re any information.”
...undoubtedly.
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“It makes one wonder why the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) objected to ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ being used in the search for Malaysian Airways MH370, citing a “lack of efficiency” ;
….successfully locating and retrieving a blackbox, lying in 9000 feet of water inside tangled wreckage, within 5-days of being on site seems efficient enough to me!
I’m extremely confident that the FDR blackbox (whether it’s ‘pinging’ or not) will soon be recovered.
edit: just read that the FDR has been located;...they really are efficient!”
“It makes one wonder why the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) objected to ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ being used in the search for Malaysian Airways MH370, citing a “lack of efficiency” ;
….successfully locating and retrieving a blackbox, lying in 9000 feet of water inside tangled wreckage, within 5-days of being on site seems efficient enough to me!
I’m extremely confident that the FDR blackbox (whether it’s ‘pinging’ or not) will soon be recovered.
edit: just read that the FDR has been located;...they really are efficient!
”
I'm not privy to the details of why the Australian authorities didn't use the John Lethbridge but it was a completely different type of search.
At least one of MS 804's black boxes was still pinging and the search area had been narrowed down to around 4 sq miles.
MH 370's black boxes had stopped pinging and the search area was well over 100,000 sq miles.
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“I'm not privy to the details of why the Australian authorities didn't use the John Lethbridge but it was a completely different type of search.
At least one of MS 804's black boxes was still pinging and the search area had been narrowed down to around 4 sq miles.
MH 370's black boxes had stopped pinging and the search area was well over 100,000 sq miles.”
“I'm not privy to the details of why the Australian authorities didn't use the John Lethbridge but it was a completely different type of search.
At least one of MS 804's black boxes was still pinging and the search area had been narrowed down to around 4 sq miles.
MH 370's black boxes had stopped pinging and the search area was well over 100,000 sq miles.”
MH370 certainly is a completely different kettle of fish (no pun intended) and there is obviously a massive difference between searching a relatively small ‘ping driven’ area of the Med compared to blindly scouring a huge swathe of the Southern Indian Ocean.
The ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ wasn’t involved in the MS804 ‘pinger’ search. The R/V John Lethbridge was contracted to recover the black boxes et al from a search area that had been previously ‘honed’ by the Alseamar personnel aboard ‘Laplace’;… to that end both teams appear to have ‘delivered’ in a very timely and efficient manner.
I’m sure the Aussie ATSB had their own very good reasons for excluding R/V John Lethbridge from the MH370 search operation;
…however ‘Deep Ocean Search’ (who were obviously mortally wounded by the ATSB’s objections) are insistent that they were better equipped than any of the other vessels involved in that search operation,…but I guess they would say that!
‘Deep Ocean Search’ & R/V John Lethbridge have done the business in the Med ,…that much is obvious.
We’ll never know for certain if ‘Deep Ocean Search’ could have made a difference in the southern Indian ocean;
…however, we do know for certain that the actual vessels involved in the search have made no difference whatsoever,… because they’ve found not the slightest trace of MH370;
… (that’s not a criticism by the way.)
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“MH370 certainly is a completely different kettle of fish (no pun intended) and there is obviously a massive difference between searching a relatively small ‘ping driven’ area of the Med compared to blindly scouring a huge swathe of the Southern Indian Ocean.
The ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ wasn’t involved in the MS804 ‘pinger’ search. The R/V John Lethbridge was contracted to recover the black boxes et al from a search area that had been previously ‘honed’ by the Alseamar personnel aboard ‘Laplace’;… to that end both teams appear to have ‘delivered’ in a very timely and efficient manner.
I’m sure the Aussie ATSB had their own very good reasons for excluding R/V John Lethbridge from the MH370 search operation;
…however ‘Deep Ocean Search’ (who were obviously mortally wounded by the ATSB’s objections) are insistent that they were better equipped than any of the other vessels involved in that search operation,…but I guess they would say that!
‘Deep Ocean Search’ & R/V John Lethbridge have done the business in the Med ,…that much is obvious.
We’ll never know for certain if ‘Deep Ocean Search’ could have made a difference in the southern Indian ocean;
…however, we do know for certain that the actual vessels involved in the search have made no difference whatsoever,… because they’ve found not the slightest trace of MH370;… (that’s not a criticism by the way.)”
“MH370 certainly is a completely different kettle of fish (no pun intended) and there is obviously a massive difference between searching a relatively small ‘ping driven’ area of the Med compared to blindly scouring a huge swathe of the Southern Indian Ocean.
The ‘R/V John Lethbridge’ wasn’t involved in the MS804 ‘pinger’ search. The R/V John Lethbridge was contracted to recover the black boxes et al from a search area that had been previously ‘honed’ by the Alseamar personnel aboard ‘Laplace’;… to that end both teams appear to have ‘delivered’ in a very timely and efficient manner.
I’m sure the Aussie ATSB had their own very good reasons for excluding R/V John Lethbridge from the MH370 search operation;
…however ‘Deep Ocean Search’ (who were obviously mortally wounded by the ATSB’s objections) are insistent that they were better equipped than any of the other vessels involved in that search operation,…but I guess they would say that!
‘Deep Ocean Search’ & R/V John Lethbridge have done the business in the Med ,…that much is obvious.
We’ll never know for certain if ‘Deep Ocean Search’ could have made a difference in the southern Indian ocean;
…however, we do know for certain that the actual vessels involved in the search have made no difference whatsoever,… because they’ve found not the slightest trace of MH370;
… (that’s not a criticism by the way.)”
The reason I mentioned the pinger was because the John Lethbridge tow-fish is equipped with what they describe as a pinger locator. I've seen the term 'directional hydrophones' used as well, and I think they're probably the same thing. Presumably, they'd have been able to home in on the pingers and map the relevant area using side-scan sonar. Their ROV also has acoustic sensors to pick up the pinger at short range, once they've refined the search area.
I'm guessing (but with some degree of confidence!) that the John Lethbridge could have done the whole job by itself ... but it wasn't in the right place for the initial pinger search!
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“The reason I mentioned the pinger was because the John Lethbridge tow-fish is equipped with what they describe as a pinger locator. I've seen the term 'directional hydrophones' used as well, and I think they're probably the same thing. Presumably, they'd have been able to home in on the pingers and map the relevant area using side-scan sonar. Their ROV also has acoustic sensors to pick up the pinger at short range, once they've refined the search area.
I'm guessing (but with some degree of confidence!) that the John Lethbridge could have done the whole job by itself ... but it wasn't in the right place for the initial pinger search!”
“The reason I mentioned the pinger was because the John Lethbridge tow-fish is equipped with what they describe as a pinger locator. I've seen the term 'directional hydrophones' used as well, and I think they're probably the same thing. Presumably, they'd have been able to home in on the pingers and map the relevant area using side-scan sonar. Their ROV also has acoustic sensors to pick up the pinger at short range, once they've refined the search area.
I'm guessing (but with some degree of confidence!) that the John Lethbridge could have done the whole job by itself ... but it wasn't in the right place for the initial pinger search!”
... I think you're absolutely spot on there, cough.
The R/V John Lethbridge, although kitted out with very modern stabilizing gear and the latest in sub-sea equipment, is actually very old (built 1966) and not particularly fast.
That could be why the Aussie ATSB said she had a , quote.. “lack of efficiency”;
…they probably worked out that it would have taken R/V John Lethbridge a month of Sundays to actually reach the southern Indian ocean.
Originally Posted by bri160356:
““The voice and data recorders from the EgyptAir plane that crashed into the Mediterranean nearly a month ago are “extensively damaged” and will need repairs before they can be analysed, an Egyptian official has said…”
.....that's not really what we wanted to hear is it‽”
““The voice and data recorders from the EgyptAir plane that crashed into the Mediterranean nearly a month ago are “extensively damaged” and will need repairs before they can be analysed, an Egyptian official has said…”
.....that's not really what we wanted to hear is it‽
”
I'm always wary of comments made by 'anonymous officials'!
With this one, we don't know if it's an 'official' who has any involvement in the investigation, or even if he understands the first thing about black boxes.
We knew the CVR was damaged from the initial statements, but the key point was that they'd recovered the memory unit. As far as I know, it doesn't matter if the other parts of the black boxed are completely and utterly totalled as long as the memory unit is intact. Obviously I don't know if they are intact, but if those photos are of the actual units, at least they don't seem to have been flattened!
Has this guy just assumed that because the whole unit was damaged it'll need to be 'repaired'?
'Repaired' is also an odd word to use, although I do accept that it's probably a translation so may not be an accurate representation of what was meant.
If the memory units are damaged, I think it's normal for them to be sent back to the manufacturers (Honeywell?) so that would mean a delay, but at least the job wuld be done properly.
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“I'm always wary of comments made by 'anonymous officials'!
With this one, we don't know if it's an 'official' who has any involvement in the investigation, or even if he understands the first thing about black boxes.
We knew the CVR was damaged from the initial statements, but the key point was that they'd recovered the memory unit. As far as I know, it doesn't matter if the other parts of the black boxed are completely and utterly totalled as long as the memory unit is intact. Obviously I don't know if they are intact, but if those photos are of the actual units, at least they don't seem to have been flattened!
Has this guy just assumed that because the whole unit was damaged it'll need to be 'repaired'?
'Repaired' is also an odd word to use, although I do accept that it's probably a translation so may not be an accurate representation of what was meant.
If the memory units are damaged, I think it's normal for them to be sent back to the manufacturers (Honeywell?) so that would mean a delay, but at least the job wuld be done properly.”
“I'm always wary of comments made by 'anonymous officials'!
With this one, we don't know if it's an 'official' who has any involvement in the investigation, or even if he understands the first thing about black boxes.
We knew the CVR was damaged from the initial statements, but the key point was that they'd recovered the memory unit. As far as I know, it doesn't matter if the other parts of the black boxed are completely and utterly totalled as long as the memory unit is intact. Obviously I don't know if they are intact, but if those photos are of the actual units, at least they don't seem to have been flattened!
Has this guy just assumed that because the whole unit was damaged it'll need to be 'repaired'?
'Repaired' is also an odd word to use, although I do accept that it's probably a translation so may not be an accurate representation of what was meant.
If the memory units are damaged, I think it's normal for them to be sent back to the manufacturers (Honeywell?) so that would mean a delay, but at least the job wuld be done properly.”
Déjà vu!…Egypt seems to be awash with officials like that;...making unauthorised comments on subjects they have little knowledge of.
I guess we should give some(??) credence to the ‘damage’ reports as the pictures are obviously genuine and therefore (I assume) they’ve been officially sanctioned by the Egyptians;
…in addition there have been official ‘investigators’ onboard LaPlace and R/V John Lethbridge from day one.
It would be naïve to think that the FDR and the CVR would not be severely damaged in a plane crash but one would assume they are designed to suffer an inordinate amount of fracturing/distortion and yet still retain their internal integrity.
The blackbox recorders from the GermanWings crash in the Alps last year were both perfectly serviceable,… even though the plane itself was almost vaporised.
I was a little disconcerted when I read initial reports that the blackboxes were being taken to Cairo for analysis;…I’d have been much happier with Paris or Washington et al.
I could be way off the mark here, but possibly this is little more than a ‘face saving’ exercise that allows the Egyptians to pass this crucial part of the investigation over to a more expertly equipped authority.
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“Déjà vu!…Egypt seems to be awash with officials like that;...making unauthorised comments on subjects they have little knowledge of.
I guess we should give some(??) credence to the ‘damage’ reports as the pictures are obviously genuine and therefore (I assume) they’ve been officially sanctioned by the Egyptians;
…in addition there have been official ‘investigators’ onboard LaPlace and R/V John Lethbridge from day one.
It would be naïve to think that the FDR and the CVR would not be severely damaged in a plane crash but one would assume they are designed to suffer an inordinate amount of fracturing/distortion and yet still retain their internal integrity.
The blackbox recorders from the GermanWings crash in the Alps last year were both perfectly serviceable,… even though the plane itself was almost vaporised.”
“Déjà vu!…Egypt seems to be awash with officials like that;...making unauthorised comments on subjects they have little knowledge of.
I guess we should give some(??) credence to the ‘damage’ reports as the pictures are obviously genuine and therefore (I assume) they’ve been officially sanctioned by the Egyptians;
…in addition there have been official ‘investigators’ onboard LaPlace and R/V John Lethbridge from day one.
It would be naïve to think that the FDR and the CVR would not be severely damaged in a plane crash but one would assume they are designed to suffer an inordinate amount of fracturing/distortion and yet still retain their internal integrity.
The blackbox recorders from the GermanWings crash in the Alps last year were both perfectly serviceable,… even though the plane itself was almost vaporised.”
The 'black box' generally applies to the whole unit including the power supply, controller board, locator beacon and memory unit. However, it's the memory unit, not the whole 'black box', which is designed to survive an impact. Everything other than the memory unit is pretty much expendable. It can therefore be misleading to say that the black box was damaged. The question in my mind is: when the official talks about the 'black box', does he mean the whole unit, or the memory unit?
Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling it may be the memory unit as that's what they'll be focusing on now, and the comment from the 'official' seems to be quite recent.
Originally Posted by bri160356:
“I was a little disconcerted when I read initial reports that the blackboxes were being taken to Cairo for analysis;…I’d have been much happier with Paris or Washington et al.
I could be way off the mark here, but possibly this is little more than a ‘face saving’ exercise that allows the Egyptians to pass this crucial part of the investigation over to a more expertly equipped authority.”
“I was a little disconcerted when I read initial reports that the blackboxes were being taken to Cairo for analysis;…I’d have been much happier with Paris or Washington et al.
I could be way off the mark here, but possibly this is little more than a ‘face saving’ exercise that allows the Egyptians to pass this crucial part of the investigation over to a more expertly equipped authority.
”
I can't help but wonder if there's still bad blood over the investigation into Egyptair 990, so I hope the Egyptian investigators won't shy away from using American expertise if that's what's best for the inquiry. The saving grace is that an expert from Honeywell is part of the investigation.
Originally Posted by coughthecat:
“The 'black box' generally applies to the whole unit including the power supply, controller board, locator beacon and memory unit. However, it's the memory unit, not the whole 'black box', which is designed to survive an impact. Everything other than the memory unit is pretty much expendable. It can therefore be misleading to say that the black box was damaged. The question in my mind is: when the official talks about the 'black box', does he mean the whole unit, or the memory unit?
Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling it may be the memory unit as that's what they'll be focusing on now, and the comment from the 'official' seems to be quite recent.
I can't help but wonder if there's still bad blood over the investigation into Egyptair 990, so I hope the Egyptian investigators won't shy away from using American expertise if that's what's best for the inquiry. The saving grace is that an expert from Honeywell is part of the investigation.”
“The 'black box' generally applies to the whole unit including the power supply, controller board, locator beacon and memory unit. However, it's the memory unit, not the whole 'black box', which is designed to survive an impact. Everything other than the memory unit is pretty much expendable. It can therefore be misleading to say that the black box was damaged. The question in my mind is: when the official talks about the 'black box', does he mean the whole unit, or the memory unit?
Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling it may be the memory unit as that's what they'll be focusing on now, and the comment from the 'official' seems to be quite recent.
I can't help but wonder if there's still bad blood over the investigation into Egyptair 990, so I hope the Egyptian investigators won't shy away from using American expertise if that's what's best for the inquiry. The saving grace is that an expert from Honeywell is part of the investigation.”
That didn't end well did it. Hope they have a change of heart and grab whatever help is offered with both hands.
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