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EgyptAir Flight MS804 from Paris to Cairo 'disappears from radar'
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academia
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by pork.pie:
“I'm more worried about finger pointers like you than I am about Muslims working in airports.”

How very brave of you! !Nobody ever died of a pointing finger. But...

'French newspaper*Le Figaro quotes a French border police source as saying*that investigators will be focusing their attention on ground crew at Charles de Gaulles airport, to establish whether any airport employees posed a security risk. The source said that, in the past, a number of*Salafists -*ultraconservative Muslims -*had been detected among those with access to the areas used for the loading and unloading of aircraft.b
Le Figaro also recalled that last December, the head of the Paris airports authority, Augustin de Romanet, announced that since the beginning of 2015*security clearance had been withdrawn from almost 70 employees who had worked in the most secure areas of the main Paris airports, citing one of the reasons as*"radicalisation".'
BBC monitoring Le Figaro
pork.pie
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by academia:
“How very brave of you! !Nobody ever died of a pointing finger. But...

'French newspaper*Le Figaro quotes a French border police source as saying*that investigators will be focusing their attention on ground crew at Charles de Gaulles airport, to establish whether any airport employees posed a security risk. The source said that, in the past, a number of*Salafists -*ultraconservative Muslims -*had been detected among those with access to the areas used for the loading and unloading of aircraft.b
Le Figaro also recalled that last December, the head of the Paris airports authority, Augustin de Romanet, announced that since the beginning of 2015*security clearance had been withdrawn from almost 70 employees who had worked in the most secure areas of the main Paris airports, citing one of the reasons as*"radicalisation".'
BBC monitoring Le Figaro”

None of this excuses pointing the finger at all Muslims who happen to work in airports, but feel free to carry on it makes you feel better.
Terry N
19-05-2016
Surely a terrorist would want to crash it into the ground for a massive spectacle? I bet it's another depressed pilot.
Aurora13
19-05-2016
Crashing a small part full aircraft into the sea hardly fits the 'spectacle' that terrorists go for. Who knows but jumping to this conclusion seems premature. I see Donald Trump has declared who did it.
johnny_t
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by pork.pie:
“None of this excuses pointing the finger at all Muslims who happen to work in airports, but feel free to carry on it makes you feel better.”

It is an inescapable fact that, in a plane crash just off Egypt, Islamic terrorism is highly likely to be involved and, even if it turns out not to be, it is a very valid early hypothesis.

Most people are intelligent enough to know that the fact that there is a problem with 'muslims' and that the discussion involves the possibility, does not mean that every single last muslim in the world is a terrorist.

Calling out trolls may seem admirable, but you're neither going to change their minds, nor impress anyone else, I'm afraid..
d'@ve
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by johnny_t:
“It is an inescapable fact that, in a plane crash just off Egypt, Islamic terrorism is highly likely to be involved and, even if it turns out not to be, it is a very valid early hypothesis.”

To be fair, I think we need more information before doing too much hypothesising.
johnny_t
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“To be fair, I think we need more information before doing too much hypothesising.”

Possibly, but on a continuum that includes, but not limited to, Islamic Terrorism, Hit by Meteorite, Twin Bird Strike etc., when placed into context, it definitely sits towards the 'likely' end of the line.....
Tassium
19-05-2016
I suspect a fault with the plane.
hazydayz
19-05-2016
You would they think they would have technology by now that could locate any plane on the planet and tell them exactly where it is.
all_night
19-05-2016
Update - Egyptian civil aviation minister: #EgyptAir #MS804 more likely to have been brought down by terror attack than technical failure
johnny_t
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by hazydayz:
“You would they think they would have technology by now that could locate any plane on the planet and tell them exactly where it is.”

As this plane was already in Egyptian Airspace, they must know exactly where it was. It isn't like MH370, where it was in no-one's airspace. I can't believe that they haven't found any debris yet, so my guess is that the press are being kept away from that aspect of it, for some reason.

Also, given that there was earlier talk of crashing near Kaparthakos, could the dive and swerve be it dropping below radar level and turning back ?

EDIT: Whilst we're at it, there could even be a hostage negotiation situation going on, hence the semi-news blackout
academia
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by pork.pie:
“None of this excuses pointing the finger at all Muslims who happen to work in airports, but feel free to carry on it makes you feel better.”

70 salafists working there is alarming. I don't think I'll feel better knowing that security at airports can be that lax. You're obviously made of sterner stuff though.
Grouty
19-05-2016
Debris been found
Girth
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by academia:
“70 salafists working there is alarming. I don't think I'll feel better knowing that security at airports can be that lax. You're obviously made of sterner stuff though.”

Not all salafists are jihadis, 'salafists' are just conservative muslims.
adams66
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by Grouty:
“Debris been found ”

That's on Reuters, who are usually very reliable. Found about 50 miles south of where the last radar contact was made.
So the plane plunged into the sea, that much is pretty clear. Question is, why?
wolfpaw
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“I suspect a fault with the plane.”

Could also be a fascist group wanting to smear the tradition of the Islamic world.
AaronWx
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by johnny_t:
“It is an inescapable fact that, in a plane crash just off Egypt, Islamic terrorism is highly likely to be involved and, even if it turns out not to be, it is a very valid early hypothesis.

Most people are intelligent enough to know that the fact that there is a problem with 'muslims' and that the discussion involves the possibility, does not mean that every single last muslim in the world is a terrorist.

Calling out trolls may seem admirable, but you're neither going to change their minds, nor impress anyone else, I'm afraid..”

There is no "fact" there.
cas1977
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by wolfpaw:
“Could also be a fascist group wanting to smear the tradition of the Islamic world.”

Hardly likely is it? If they'd wanted to do something like that, then they would have done it by now....

And I don't think the islamic world needs much smearing, it does a good enough job on its own....
andersonsonson
19-05-2016
Chances of any survivors?
johnny_t
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by AaronWx:
“There is no "fact" there.”

Whatever. I suppose that the truth is that even when someone pops up to say that 'We are the fighters of Islamic State, make this Islamic fight in the name of glorious Islam', you'll still be here to tell us that they've got it all wrong and it's nothing to do with Islam at all.

Whether you like it or not, it is still the most likely root cause at the moment. Yes, the evidence is all circumstantial so far, but you have a flight between two areas that have had problems with Islamic terrorism in the recent past, or are we denying that too ?

The 'big' part of this story would be if some security lapse at CDG allowed it to happen.
Cally's mum
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by andersonsonson:
“Chances of any survivors?”

Shouldn't think so if they've gone down in the sea. It might be water, but planes break up violently upon impact on it and there have been numerous examples of this occurring with no survivors (particularly from the height they were cruising at the time).

Tragic loss of life. But we need to wait for the evidence to prove what happened. If they have found debris and it hasn't drifted too far then hopefully the black boxes will also be located - they do emit a signal for a while so they have a little time.

The debris will also prove valuable as they can test it for explosive residue and/or catastrophic rupture of some other description.
wolfpaw
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by cas1977:
“Hardly likely is it? If they'd wanted to do something like that, then they would have done it by now....

And I don't think the islamic world needs much smearing, it does a good enough job on its own....”

It was just one of the causes that an 'expert' on Sky came out with earlier...
TrollHunter
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by wolfpaw:
“Could also be a fascist group wanting to smear the tradition of the Islamic world.”

Originally Posted by wolfpaw:
“According to a Sky News commentator, it could apparently have been a 'fascist group' wanting to 'smear' the reputation of the Islamic world...”


Echo.....echo....echo....

No matter how many times you say it, it won't make it true.
TrollHunter
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by johnny_t:
“It is an inescapable fact that, in a plane crash just off Egypt, Islamic terrorism is highly likely to be involved and, even if it turns out not to be, it is a very valid early hypothesis.

Most people are intelligent enough to know that the fact that there is a problem with 'muslims' and that the discussion involves the possibility, does not mean that every single last muslim in the world is a terrorist.
”

Really?
Originally Posted by valkay:
“BBC Radio 2 news just said that at least 66 Muslims have been removed from working airside because of security concerns, but still many more Muslims working at the airport.”

So Muslim staff = potential terrorist?
johnny_t
19-05-2016
Originally Posted by TrollHunter:
“Really?


So Muslim staff = potential terrorist?”

I did say 'most'
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