There you go again.. you make it up as you go alone. passive aggressive shite I hate it.. "oh but I forgot you la la la" "oh so you think that is ok" No Ive not said my dog was perfect but I have had to train him to a higher standard than people with small dogs and because of the reputation. I have sat and cried many a night because of idiots and what i thought was a mistake in getting my dog due to breed reputation, thinking how do I do this when dog people are so different now. He has destroyed my garden, my whole house is full of mud.. no he isnt perfect and nor am I .

As I already said I had a rescue dog who was dog aggressive and also scared of many things. including fireworks I re-trained her was it easy, no, was it worth it, yes very much so. I am not saying you can re-train your old ill dog but if the others are in anyway the same, you can help those.

Who said that you said anything about me and my dog? Certainly in this thread people have.. all I have said is you keep putting words in my mouth and crediting me with stuff I never said.

So you're contradicting yourself as you also say if people are taking fear reactive dogs out near other dogs they are setting them up to fail. So how do you re-train a fear of other dogs out of a dog without going to places where other dogs are?

No you expose them by walking around sensibly where other dogs are but you have to hope that you meet sensible owners that actually control their dogs not the ones that are shouting he's friendly from half a mile away as they cant control their dog. Half of the people that think their dogs are friendly and coming over to say hello are wrong as you can tell by the body language if you have the experience that it is a dominant dog coming over to assert itself, which is great if you have a submissive dog not a problem. If you have a remotely dominant dog though things can get nasty quickly because there is no flight option and the on lead dog knows it.

I'm not contradicting myself .. of course you have to be near other dogs to re-train but my opinion is if you are not going to re-train then try going for walks at the least popular times or where other dogs are not in abundance. that could be where there is a very popular dog walking place and next to that a bit of waste group where no one bothers to go in.

Its actually owner training more than dog re-training. and you ask those with friendly but not over friendly and well trained dogs to help you, or go to classes.

Some people do for sure but not all of them, some people just don't want their dog to play at that present moment in time, so another dog coming over interfering is not on, I don't see why you don't get that.

I don't see why you don't see how bad manners and a lack of control is a problem, a dog on a lead communicates ineffectively compared to an off lead dog which can lead to issues. So why wouldn't a responsible owner see a dog on a lead and recall their dog to heel or put a lead on it for two minutes until the other dog has gone past. Ignorant / lazy or uneducated in canine etiquette is all I can assume.

What makes you think I dont get it when I have said reactive dogs suffer because of crap dog owners.

I do see it as a problem for people with dogs who dont like it.. but surely its better for the dog that is reactive in some way to be taught how to handle it, rather than just complain about crap dog owners and the dog continue to suffer each time it happens? How do YOU not get that.

But (like I said before) there are a lot of people who do train their dogs and who do manage to get them to a certain point where they don't react only to have their training ruined by idiots with their off lead dogs who allow them to harass/attack their dogs! ! Like I also said there are some behaviours that cannot be 'trained out' of a dog because it is so deeply ingrained.

And you really are sounding rather condescending. You boast about how perfectly trained your dog is and seem to think that everybody else should be able to train every behavioural issue out of their dogs. Like Riversmum said, fear is very difficult to address and sometimes it can only managed and not 'trained out'. You also say that just because someone believes that SBTs and APBTs are more dangerous than other breeds (which is actually the case because serious attacks by them vastly outnumber attacks by other breeds) that their own dogs must be poorly trained? I mean, really? And for the record I used to defend pits and staffords, but after three completely unprovoked attacks on one of my dogs by three different SBTs I have had those rose tinted glasses knocked off my face. And no I haven't been brainwashed by the media.

Additionally, the media wouldn't be reporting on as many attacks by pits and staffords if they weren't inflicting serious injuries on a regular basis. They grab the headlines because of the severity of their frequent attacks. There are countless attacks by them that lead to their victims needing multiple reconstructive surgeries, limb amputations and coffins. If they really were that good with people then that would not be the case. As for attacks by other breeds. I have not read a single article about another breed attacking that has been accompanied with a picture of a bull breed. In articles about dangerous dogs in general, yes, but articles about non bull breed attacks, no.

You also started posting on this thread by saying that you have a stafford and now your dog is a pit. What breed is he?

Its like going round in circles all this has been addressed over and over and now we are back to the thread topic about bull breeds attacking.. shall we once again point out that in the 60.s 70s it was GSD 80s/90s it was the Rottweiler and pit bull turn .. a year of JR somewhere along that line

do you know why? Because its the popular breed of the time. When they ban the staffie and i have no doubt they will.. Watch them move to another breed and the crap starts all over again.


I posted on this thread that i had a APB years ago and the breed was banned ( while I had her) so I chose to get a Staffie this time as its the closest in temperament to the APB

You don't seem to get I am not just talking about reactive dogs I am talking about any dog, no on leash dog should have to put up with a loose dog coming over to them, it's unfair.

There is a chart on this link which demonstrates what I was saying earlier half if not more of the owners who think their dogs are being friendly are lacking in dog knowledge their dogs are actually being dominant and rude.

I will never agree that any loose dog should be allowed to approach a dog on a lead, whereas you seem to think it's ok and "treat dogs like dogs", they're just being friendly blah blah is fine. Mistakes happen sure, but owners should be responsible it's that simple. "Your" (not you personally) dog should not be my problem.

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/languag...e_canine.shtml

Because you keep going on about reactive dogs... a reactive dog, a friendly dog, a working dog, an injured dog - Any dog on a lead should not be being approached by an off lead dog, it's called responsible ownership.

A dog reactive dog being walked is dealing with its issues every day it encounters a dog on lead and off lead and nothing happens, but you keep missing the point in the fact that a dog owner with a loose dog should keep their dog under control (that simple) and should not be allowed to greet an on lead dog unless the owner gives permission. AS has been stated previously even a calm submissive dog can take umbrage when on a lead as their flight response is cut off.

But serious attacks by other breeds are not as frequent as staffords and (especially) pits. That is why German Shepherds and Rottweilers have not been banned. Pits and staffords were bred for the sole purpose of fighting and attacking. Many, many years of selective breeding for a specific purpose does imprint on dogs. That is why dogs from herding breeds herd despite never being trained to herd. That is why dogs from guardian breeds guard even if they haven't been trained to do so. It makes them more predisposed to exhibiting certain behaviours. So I am sorry, but the fighting breeds should not be touted as being 'good with people and other animals' especially when there are so many people and other animals dead or permanently disfigured because of them. I have a Lurcher (Greyhound x Collie) and a pure Greyhound. What you are saying would be like me promoting Greyhounds and Lurchers by saying they are generally great with cats and other small furry animals. I wouldn't do that because it isn't true.

I agree with your post in principle... however pits and staffies are generally excellent people dogs, they do however need firm handling (like most terriers). I do believe they are more predisposed to dog aggression.

However it is not impossible to have a dog friendly one but they do need to be socialised loads with other dogs of all ages, size etc. Sound breeding and parentage is important too, Even then though it can only take one incident to bring their dominant side to the surface which can result in future issues with other dogs.

Don't get me started on the people that think guarding is about barking or snarling or other twatty behaviours, by badly behaved dogs. if you watch a bullmastiff for instance, he is quiet, he is assessing, then he would be placing himself in front of what he was guarding. The majority of people wouldn't even notice he was doing it.

OMG Stop telling me what I do and dont get. I do get it the same principles apply IMO ..
I even said we will have to agree to disagree on the fact that I think its OK for friendly dogs to say hello to mine and you dont.

And your dog (dito) is not my problem. That is why I do what I do to minimise any problems that might arise. So I can have a happy friendly walk without to much worry and stress.. I too have to be aware of loose dogs as my cats also come with us for most of our walks.. BUT if anything happened to my cats I would take full responsibility as I know there are dogs that are allowed to be loose where we go walking.

Im not missing any points! I get it how many times do you need me to say about "crap owners"

You cannot make anyone keep their dog on a lead, so YOU will have to deal with it yourself. I knew it could be a potential problem because of the rescue dog I had.. so I did the best I could to minimise any problems from crap owners and their dogs.

You take your cats with you on your walks how does this work? Do you have them on leads? or in cat baskets? or what?

I don't have any problems (you seem to have gifted me a dog reactive dog), the dog I am working with currently (I don't own a dog myself at present) is not reactive yet, he could become so because of owners that think it is ok to let loose dogs greet on lead dogs.

WE are not talking about YOUR dog, we are talking about dogs in general and how it is good dog etiquette not to allow this due to a variety of reasons. I don't think it is ever appropriate for an owner to not have control of their dog (I know mistakes happen when training recall and socialising dogs but it is habitual for some people), yes if they are I have to deal with it but I shouldn't have to and neither should anyone else which is the point

For me personally I walk mine on harnesses around the cul-de sac (the neighbours laugh but im generally in my PJ's) but not with dogs or kids, its hard walking a cat. Guessing she means hers follow her when she walks

They just walk with us. the girl always comes wind rain snow , the boy mostly fair-weather. the boy walks in front of us and the girl either behind or the side of us.
He will walk to the fields and meet us at the other side then walk back with us, she will walk with us no matter where we go.

it is funny its just something they have done since I got him and went on his first walk..

I was talking about reactive dogs when you jumped into the conversation.. the reason you dont want a strange dog coming over to you is by the by it makes no odds what the reasons are .. You wont get owners who dont want to keep a dog on the lead to do so.. you can moan and complain as much as you like.. its not going to happen .
so what is your solution?

I'm not saying dogs should be on a lead but if people can't control their dogs off lead well enough to stop it coming over to us then it should be on lead as it is out of control. Plenty of people are perfectly able to stop their off lead dogs coming over - and I'm not talking just a couple of feet I'm talking about them flying across a wide grassy field at speed as they run from one dog to another.

Unfortunately peoples refusal to properly control their dogs off lead will end up with a ban on off lead dogs in yet more areas, there are already bans on them off lead on all public land in several areas.

Of course you will always get idiots who will never understand why it's rude and unacceptable to spoil walks for other people, usually the 'oh they're friendly' brigade, a fair number of whose dogs go on to attack other dogs.

No one said they had to but by law they are supposed to be under control that does not mean going up to other dogs or people. It's not about moaning and complaining it's trying to educate people so they become better dog owners for their dogs safety and others.

You want people to listen to you about Staffies not being devil dogs but you're not hearing anyone in this thread with regards on lead and off lead dogs and their interactions. Remember it's not you or your dog personal preferences and what you allow, we are talking about the general population and what should happen

WTF again? What are YOU NOT getting about the fact I put my dog on a lead when I see people coming? BUT I cannot control other people or their dogs so I trained my dog to deal with any eventuality and feel secure with it.

What can you see that is so bad about that? Should I just have let it be and if he has a problem with loose dogs I too can post on a forum trying to educated crap owners ? shall I just keep moaning about crap owners and not try to find my own solution?

Last time for the hard of understanding

YES there are many crap dog owners out there . I put my dog on a lead as soon as I see a person in the distance just so they feel OK with my dog and know they are safe.

Who made you the keeper of the thread? Im not allowed to say that I dont actually mind "friendly" dogs coming to say hello.. but you are allowed your personal preference of all dogs staying away from you. O-K

One of the reasons a lot of people get a dog , is so they can get out of the home and meet other people. Its always been a great way to make new friends..

People here seem absolutely horrified that a stranger might stop and chat, the very idea!! No wonder so many dogs here are un socialised if that is the "new dog owner type"

The difference here to most dog forums and groups is like chalk and cheese. Lucky for me I was not here when I got my dog ( he is a disability dog who helps me lead a normal life ) I would have decided that a dog in today's world to make friends and go out for relaxing walks is no longer a option.
a quote from a few of you here.
"my dog does not want a strange dog coming up to him any more than I would want a strange person coming up to me" That tells me so much.

Lucky for me I was not here but on dog groups and see how many people meet up and walk the dogs together after meeting on solo walks . how many now have good friendships and people who will help look after their dog in the case of illness ( vice versa) I am not lucky enough to have such a group where I live and so have to travel a way for meet ups, seeing your dog ecstatically playing with others dogs is a amazing.

I was told this forum is like no other.. people make a point of being stand offish and snippy.
I see the thread about the dog not being able to settle into his new home and just laughed at some of the serous advice given.. I kept thinking I was miss-reading child as dog

I prefer dog people to people who treat dogs like children and give them children's emotions and thoughts, Dogs are very sociable and love other dogs. making them like you is the mistake, I read here that a lot prefer dogs to people, that really shows , trouble is you make your dog your friend and deprive them of their greatest pleasure, no wonder so many now are high maintenance.


Unsubscribed from this thread.

Not at all what any of us said but hey ho.

I put my girl on the lead as soon as I see another dog - on lead or off lead. However if we are approaching each other on a path, there is usually an exchange with the other dog walker re how our dogs are with other dogs. And if it's OK we stop to let them greet each other.
I sometimes imagine how it would be if we humans were being walked by dogs and stopped from socialising with other humans
Fortunately I live in a village and all the dog walkers know each other. My collie enjoys a romp around with one particular dog and it's nice to see

I live in a town but it's Devon so loads of countryside, beaches, we run into the same people and certain places all dogs will be off lead, greet, play...but as they say there is a time and a place for everything. If someone appears with an on lead dog it's nice to be responsible and put your dog back on a lead until you've passed. Normally a grateful conversation will take place as they are training their dog, rehabbing or whatever.