Well, seemingly not, then.

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere but why has match choice been reduced in length? Didn't use it the first two weeks as my team were on live, recorded it last night, whereas you used to get at least forty five minutes of highlights of the match, now it's less than half an hour and no post match comment either. Seems to be another example of the latest Sky price increase resulting in more money for less content.

It's hardly their fault if that's what the Premier League offered at tender?

Something I'm noticing more and more this season.
The 4pm kick is becoming less glamorous....

Not sure whether this is to do with the package split, European football or changing trends.

I'm still the kind of fan who likes to sit down to one match a weekend and over the years that's been the 4pm match.
Saturdays really don't suit.

Is the 4pm package still the flagship (1st choice) package?

It's partly due to the way the fixtures have fallen this season and partly due to the new packages. For example, Sky wanted to give up second pick this weekend so that meant they had to put the Spurs v Liverpool game in the Saturday 12:30 slot. Furthermore, Sky are looking to get their fill of the big teams in the weekend Package G games such as Man City v West Ham.

That said, I do think we'll see more big games in the Sunday 16:00 slot from December onwards.

Yeah, I still don't get all the horse trading over the packages, I understand the quotas.
I would have thought Spurs/Liverpool was a 1st pick 4pm game as its a non CL week for Spurs.

It's likely that Sky passed first pick this weekend just gone as it's a big game featuring Spurs (and Liverpool) and BT chose to pass first pick to Package A (Saturday 12:30). They probably chose to pass this Spurs game as it featured Liverpool who (I think) they knew they were getting in Week 4 (Leicester at home).

I think Sky passed second pick to BT (Hull v Man Utd), so they had no choice but to show Spurs v Liverpool in Saturday 12:30 slot. To get that game to Sunday 16:00, Sky would needed to have taken first, second, third and fourth picks. I suppose they could have passed third pick as BT might have passed Spurs v Liverpool due to quota issues, but I'm not sure Sky would want to risk that.

Cheers TLG86. Thanks for the great explanation.

It is sort of absurd that arguably the best game of the weekend is dumped in the worst slot because of the way the packages are structured and the "chess game" between the broadcasters.

Surely it would make more sense for timeslots and picks to be decoupled in some way? So something like this:

Package A: 28 picks:
- 6 1st picks
- 14 2nd picks
- 8 5th picks
...and the ability to show 28 games on Saturday at 12.30pm.

Package D: 28 picks:
- 18 1st picks
- 10 4th picks
...and the ability to show 28 games at 4pm/4.30pm on a Sunday

In this structure, Sky could make a 1st, 2nd or 5th pick in Package A but, so long as they haven't already filled the slot, show it at 4pm on Sunday. They could then make a 4th pick in Package D and show it on Saturday at 12.30pm.

There would obviously need to be safeguards to ensure that no broadcaster was "blocked" because the only slots they have were already taken by another, but I don't see that as insurmountable. There could also be a "double pick order" where the games are picked first in one order, then the timeslots in another (e.g. Sky have first dibs on Saturday 12.30pm, but if they use only other slots then BT can make a pick there, and so on. European constraints could also be factored in here to ensure that a channel isn't forced into passing on a game they could otherwise have picked).

That would be incredibly unfair on the secondary rights holder. The primary rights holder would clearly take the best time slots each round and it would pretty much do away with any need for packages.

I think they're just fine as they are.

Not if the timeslots still come with the packages.

So Sky couldn't show any games on Saturdays at 5.30pm because they wouldn't have that timeslot available to them; similarly, BT couldn't show any games on Fridays or Mondays, or Sundays 1.30pm/4pm.

The same broadcasters would still have the same games and the same timeslots - you'd just be shuffling which games were shown when to make sure the best games were at the best times.

The point of the package quotas is to prevent the same team being lumbered with the rubbish kick off times. As a match going supporter I would far rather go to a game on a Saturday than a Sunday, let alone a Monday night. The quotas mean that although my team Arsenal rarely play Saturday 15:00, at least we get to play on a Saturday a fair amount.

Exactly. The current system ensures each team features a relatively equal amount of times in each slot through the season.

The current packages are meticulously designed and I think they work well as they are.

Just like the Undisclosed transfer fee

It is a shame that the Premier League never tell us which games were chosen first or even in which package

I'm still not convinced this was a Package A first pick weekend.

If Sky had passed first pick in Package D do we really think BT would pass Tottenham-Liverpool? I understand that both clubs can often become problematic for BT on the quota front, but this is still a relatively big game, particularly since it comes in the first few weeks of the season. BT could quite easily forego a mediocre game or two (just look at the likes of Liverpool-West Brom and Tottenham-West Ham which are both on BT - packages obviously up for debate!) And crucially, on past form BT are not frightened to give themselves a quota dilemma or two. If it was presented to BT I'd have expected them to have taken it.

And from Sky's perspective it's a game worth taking with a first pick. Without it they'd be showing Liverpool once in the first four weeks and not showing Tottenham at all.

Obviously it's all up for debate right now - hopefully we'll be able to piece together the jigsaw as the season goes on.

I think they would have passed and be keen to save some 1st picks for later on as its only week three plus also I expect BT are keen to show Jose and Man U early on.

Quite. While BT can work around picking Spurs v Liverpool, it makes a lot of sense to pass that week, especially if BT knew that they'd be getting Liverpool v Leicester as a third pick in Week 4.

As you say, they'd want a Man Utd game quite early. In the past BT have used first picks to ensure a Man Utd game (or two!) early in the season. I'm not sure it's quite so pressing now. They'd know that Sky would pass either Man Utd v Southampton or Hull v Man Utd, so the trick is to not use a first pick that weekend. And it might also be possible for BT to have used a Package F fourth pick to get the unpicked Man Utd game even if it was the weekend when BT had picked a game in Package B.

So I feel confident that BT would have passed up Spurs v Liverpool, but.....


This is a very good point. It's hard to see how Sky would have rejigged their picks to accommodate the loss of Spurs v Liverpool. Burnley v Liverpool in Week 2? Possibly, but that would have meant giving up one of Man Utd v Southampton, Sunderland v Boro or (heaven forbid) West Ham v Bournemouth. Could Sky go until Week 5 (Chelsea v Liverpool) without showing Liverpool again? Perhaps, after all they are going until Week 7 before showing Arsenal again. Spurs? They might not matter quite as much but Sky would have wanted to show them before the international break.

One thing I've noticed about Sky's picks over the last few seasons is they don't like to leave things to chance. Perhaps they could have been 80% sure that BT would have passed Liverpool v Spurs back to them, and maybe they could have lived without that game, but I'm not sure. But that does leave the question of why show it in the Saturday 12:30 slot? I suppose week 3 is the only time so far that Sky have shown Man City in the Sunday 16:00 slot. And Sky may have wanted to avoid using a second pick in Package C as that would result in a fourth pick in Package E which would have needed a Friday night.

So perhaps Week 3 is a Package D first pick after all which would leave Sky with one more week to pass in the rest of the season.

And why should they? Lets face it, your average match going supporter doesn't give a shit about packages and quotas, they just get pissed off with Sky for moving matches to stupid times that cause maximum inconvienience for (especially travelling) fans.

I think Igloo_man is right here. I have real doubts that Sky would have passed two of the first three weeks of the new season. I think the TOT-LIV game is a 2A pick here, and BT picked up HUL-MNU with a 3B pick.

agree, spurs vs liverpool would be too big a game for BT to pass up if they had the chance when you could end up with a game like west brom at home

Sunday November 6th:-

Swansea City v Manchester United, which has been moved thanks to United's participation in the Europa League, has been confirmed for a 3pm kick-off.

Nothing strange in that, per se, but for the last rights deal it appeared that the Premier League had introduced a policy to schedule non-UK-televised Sunday games to kick off at the same time as one of the television slots. I cannot remember if there were any exceptions.

On Sunday November 6th there are three live UK TV games; kicking off at midday, 2.15pm and 4.30pm.

There is one other non-UK-televised game on the day. Hull City v Southampton will kick off at the same time as the 2.15pm Liverpool v Watford match.

The Swansea - Manchester United match is an interesting departure from what's become the norm. There is pehaps an obvious reason for it that I'm missing and might be flagged up here

Other matches moved for Europa League purposes

Next Sunday
Southampton v Swansea City is in the 2.15pm TV slot

Sunday 2nd October
Leicester City v Southampton is in the 2.15pm TV slot

Sunday 27th November
Manchester United v West Ham United is in the 4.30pm TV slot

TV games for the 11th December - the final post Europa League weekend of the year - have yet to be decided.

Maybe it's at the request of an overseas broadcaster?

I think sat-ire's point is that it is for the overseas broadcasters that the games rearranged because of the Europa League tend to be played in parallel to the games selected for live television in the UK. The question is, why is Swansea v Man Utd not kicking off at 16:30 (or 12:00)?

It's possible, but then why this particular game and no other for the past few years, or up to December this year?

The move to same time kick-offs would very likely have been made to benefit all overseas broadcasters, so to move a huge game (to foreign broadcasters) at the request of one particular broadcaster, might not be seen as reasonable or fair. That said, it's now playing at a pretty neutral time across the timezones

It's also probable that the move to same time kick-offs was to appease the UK TV rightsholder who would have concerns about people in Britain and Ireland, both at home and in pubs, watching a pirated game which overlaps both of their televised games. If this is the case then the fact that the League's biggest attraction is playing in a match that will do that suggests there might be other (non-broadcast related) reasons.

Precisely.

Or even 2.15pm - there have been (rare) occasions that there were three games in a TV slot in the past.

I do believe that the clubs themselves decide which of the TV slots they will play in, but, based on what's happened in recent times, I believe there must be exceptional circumstances to allow them to play outside the TV slots.