I'm in agreement with both of these. And of course we'll be able to verify the R5 one if no further Middlesbrough games are picked by BT, which is a distinct possibility.


Agreed on all but R3. Do you not think Sunderland-Middlesbrough could be a Package C game in R2? West Brom-Middlesbrough certainly doesn't look like the sort of game Sky would want to use for the spare Package G games, but at the same time I'm wary of ruling this one out just yet. There's not quite as much evidence for doing so as there is with the others.


I like this. There are almost certainly other cases of packages being used outside of their normal slot because it's already been taken by a higher pick, and this could well be another example of that. There's a couple of other things to think about with R13 too:

1. Since Southampton are in the EL Southampton-Everton had to be the Sun. Not sure that really affects things but certainly worth bearing in mind.
2. I think Arsenal-Bournemouth may be in Package E. Neither team has had a Mon or Fri game yet so this would be filling two quotas, plus it's an acceptable anomaly since there's League Cup the following midweek.


This adds up. Leicester-Everton looked nailed on for one of the BH games, so there has to be a reason Sky would let it go. This would explain it nicely.


I'm not so sure all of the games you've listed are in Package F / G. Yes, they're all candidates as we've discussed, but remember that we've just passed the halfway point in the season in terms of picks. You're suggesting that all eight Package F extras and five of the six Package G extras have been selected already? I'm not sure about that!

We should definitely keep these lists of candidates in mind when further rounds are announced. Packages F and G were easy to overlook initially since they're the smaller and seemingly less significant ones, but actually they play a big role when it comes to sorting the games into the correct packages. There's no doubt about it - the process is tougher in this rights cycle!

I know it's Radio but why did Radio 5 have the 530 Game today ??

It's always on TALKSPORT

Yes, four out of the first five games-that surprised even me! Though remember one of those was on BT. The Arsenal game will be our fourth Sky pick. Now we're back to our usual pattern of already looking like serious candidates for relegation Sky will go back to their usual pattern of only picking us when they need to for quota purposes, since we're not exactly playing attractive football that armchair punters will be queuing up to watch. Still, at least it means those of us who actually go to the match won't have to put up with so many changes that affect our ability to attend.

Also, re the point that our Boxing Day trip to Old Trafford may have been overlooked because Sky suspect Moyes may be gone by then, I'd say unless there's a major shake up in our play over the next few weeks, they may very well be right. No disrespect intended, but Stoke are the sort of team we should be looking to beat, and with our next games being West Ham, Arsenal and Bournemouth, I can't see where a win is coming from.

Sorry, I was looking at the wrong column - I think it's a West Brom quota filler


That's certainly a possibility, it's not like Sky haven't shown Bournemouth in Package C.


Yes, this is exactly what I expected. If I were Sky I'd look to get the second pick passes out of the way as soon as possible. The same applies to BT passing third pick to Sky, but in reality the driver will be Sky looking to get their fill of the big teams in Package G as soon as possible. The best weeks to do that in our those where BT have first pick in Package B (e.g. Weeks 6, 11 and 13).

I don't want to rub it in, but I think Sky and BT have filled the Sunderland quotas so technically we may have seen the last of Sunderland in terms of live televised Premier League action for some time (okay, that's probably unlikely).

As for Boxing Day, I think Igloo_Man is right to suggest that Man Utd v Leicester was a Package G third pick which was swapped with West Ham v Southampton due to the Champions League. So it looks like Man Utd v Sunderland was never on the table. That said, I am surprised they didn't take Sunderland v Liverpool instead of Bournemouth v Arsenal and in turn take Arsenal v West Brom instead of Liverpool v Stoke.

Regarding Week 13, Here's an interesting thought......

I think Arsenal vs Bournemouth is a Pack E game. Neither side has been picked yet, so it got me thinking.....

I'm assuming Burnley v Man City is a 2nd Pick in Package F at 12:30pm and I'm also assuming that BT have the first choice on when they can show it (ie whether Sat 12:30 or Sun 12:00)

Now, Sky want to pick Arsenal vs Bournemouth, they can't show it Friday Night as Arsenal play in CL on the Wednesday, they can't show it Monday Night as there's a full PL schedule midweek and (if memory serves that this is allowed) they can't show it in their 3rd preferred slot of Sat 12:30pm as BT have already got a match on, so the only remaining time is to go for a Triple-Header on the Sunday. Thus making.....

Sat 12:30 Burnley vs Man City (F2)
Sat 17:30 Chelsea vs Tottenham (B1)
Sun 12:00 Watford vs Stoke City (C5)
Sun 14:15 Arsenal vs Bournemouth (E3)
Sun 16:30 Southampton vs Everton (D4)

That'll do me just fine if it means more Saturdays at 3.00pm as I work Sundays-had to swap my shift to attend the Spurs game. Although I'm not going to the Arsenal game with it being at 12.30 since I'm working the Friday night, there were no reasonably priced trains left by the time the October fixtures were announced, and I'm not asking my mate who I travel and sometimes share the driving with to set off at 5.30 or 6.00am-he will want to drive up on Friday evening and stay over.


I do agree to being a bit surprised as with our two Xmas fixtures being Man U and Liverpool I was pretty much expecting at least one of them to be shown, and I still think that had we made a better start Sky may well have reconsidered their picks and taken the Moyes factor into account by picking Utd.

That's no longer part of Package E. That package simply states "28 at Mon 8pm (min 18) or Fri 7.30pm/8pm (max 10)." So if this package was held by a third party the PL could be very strict and say "pick a team not playing in the Champions League."

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the PL allowed Sky to move a Package E game to the Sunday. Ordinarily you would think that it would go in the Sunday 12:00 slot (as, say, a third pick), with the Sunday 16:30 game being a fourth pick in Package D and the Sunday 14:15 game being a fifth pick in Package C. However, as the Arsenal v Bournemouth game is in the 14:15 slot, that suggests that the Watford v Stoke game isn't in it's right slot which all points towards Southampton v Everton being in Package G.

Of course, this would mean two fourth picks being used by Sky (Package D and E), but that wouldn't be much of a surprise.

Big six games
There are 19 of these to be played up to Feb 1st

BT have managed to show just 6

Ars v Che
Ars v Tot
Che v Tot
Liv v Man C

And in the second half
ManC v Tot
Liv v Che

So if Watford v Stoke is a Package D game and Arsenal v Bournemouth is a Package E game, that leaves Sky just five quotas to fill:

Burnley (A)
Hull (C)
Swansea (C)
Man City (E)
Tottenham (E)

It doesn't look like any swaps have gone on with the first three. In fact, Swansea have only been picked three times by Sky so by definition they definitely have to fill one quota for them.

Obviously the min quota isn't an issue for Man City and Spurs - they'll be shown in Package E at some point. The issue is more around balance. Sky have shown both teams nine times so far leaving 12 picks for the last 14 weekends of the season. So there isn't a huge pressure on the other packages yet. But just to play devil's advocate, given we think it's possible Sky were allowed to pick Arsenal v Bournemouth in Package E, then it's not out of the question that Sky were allowed to pick Spurs v Man City in Package E too (due to Week 7 being sandwiched by the Champions League and the International break).

For Sky to have done that, however, it would have required them to take first pick in Package D, because - as with Week 13 - for Spurs v Man City to be played in the Sunday 14:15 slot, it would need no Package C game. And if Sky used first pick in Package A, they'd have to have used a second pick in Package C to secure Spurs v Man City as a third pick in Package E.

There are a number of issues with this. Firstly, Sky did actually pick a Package E game - Everton v Crystal Palace on the Friday night. I've always assumed that Sky controls third pick and fourth pick, but not at the same time. So I think BT would have had to have been offered fourth pick in Package F. They might have turned it down based on the teams available, and opted to take Man Utd v Stoke with a fifth pick in Package B. So Sky picking another game from Package E (to fill the Palace quota) wouldn't be a big issue.

Another issue, however, would be that it would mean that Burnley v Arsenal was a Package D game. I'd have thought Sky could get Arsenal in Package G with another game at some point, so that's not an issue. However, Sky picked Southampton v Burnley in the Sunday 16:00 slot in Week 8. That looks very much like a Burnley quota filler to me. They might have wanted that game anyway - and their options this week are limited by the Champions League - but it seems odd that Sky would pick Burnley twice in the Sunday 16:00 slot if they weren't in different packages.

Finally, I find it odd that Sky would use a Package D first pick in Week 7 just to engineer an excuse to get Spurs v Man City in Package E. It looks an obvious pass by Sky, and given the Ryder Cup, it looks an obvious pass back by BT.

Other Package E possibilities could be Man City v Southampton in the Sunday 13:30 slot of Week 9. The Southampton min quota in Package C would still be filled by their game with Bournemouth in Week 17. On balance, however, I think Man City v Southampton is a Package C game as Southampton are already on two for Package. The other one, flagged up by Igloo_Man is Man Utd v Spurs in Week 15. For this to be the case it would require Watford v Everton to be a second pick in Package A (rather than a fifth pick). Sky have already picked United twice in Package E and only once in Package C. Furthermore, I cannot see Sky using another third pick in Package E, particularly when they didn't take Leicester v Man City.

All to do with Chelsea v Leicester oringally planned for 1330 today but getting moved to lunchtime yesterday due to the CL. TS covered this instead.

Thanks
I thought maybe Radio had Packages F and G as well !!

And 5Live have got Middlesbrough v Watford this afternoon - i.e. the game that swapped with Chelsea v Leicester. That doesn't explain why 5Live also did Crystal Palace v West Ham. That doesn't looked like anything other than a standard 17:30 game, what was special about it that meant it wasn't on TS?

When you realise "Super" Sunday is actually Middlesbrough v Watford and Southampton v Burnley:

https://goo.gl/images/cxJHDp

It all get a bit complicated. Go to the Radio section, commentators thread and look at page 16. It's sort of explained.

Having just had a closer look I've only just twigged this last fact - that Watford-Stoke being a fourth pick in Package D would require two fourth picks that weekend.

That doesn't sit well with me. Of course we'e seen two of the same pick in a round before, especially towards the end of the season. But I'm hesitant to say that this is something which would be deemed acceptable at this stage. Surely you need a very good reason to go against the 'system' and I don't think there is one here.

Of course a lot of the evidence does point to Watford-Stoke being in D, particularly the fact that neither club has been shown in the Sun 16:00 slot thus far. It would polish off the min quotas in D nicely.

But I really don't think we should be considering two fourth picks in a round as early as R13. I think it more likely that Watford-Stoke is in A, with the game at Sun 12:00 purely because BT have already taken the Sat 12:30 slot that weekend.

I'm concerned with Chelsea's number of games in Package D. They've already had five, and the system suggests the max is seven (five in D + two in G). Now Chelsea have a game in G on a BH, so their cap is actually six.

So far they've had:

R4 - Swansea v Chelsea
R9 - Chelsea v Man Utd
R10 - Southampton v Chelsea
R12 - Middlesbrough v Chelsea
R22 - Chelsea v Hull

Now of these, I see no reason to suspect that the R22 pick is not in D, but the others have all got reason to have been switched:

R4 - Man City play in CL following midweek so Swansea-Chelsea may have swapped with Man Utd-Man City.
R9 - Man Utd play in EL previous midweek so Chelsea-Man Utd may have swapped with Bournemouth-Tottenham.
R10 - Arsenal play in CL following midweek so Southampton-Chelsea may have swapped with Sunderland-Arsenal.
R12 - Arsenal play in CL following midweek so Middlesbrough-Chelsea may have swapped with Man Utd-Arsenal.

However, in each of these cases the swap would cause a satisfied min quota to be lost for one of the smaller clubs. That doesn't mean it's not possible one or two of these swaps isn't in play, but it certainly counts against it.

That leaves the option of one being in Package G. Only R10 and R22 are not Sky first pick weekends, so are the only candidates. Hull's min quota in D for R22 makes it less likely than R10. But this brings us back to the famous R13 - if Southampton-Everton is in G then Southampton-Chelsea can't be as Southampton would already be maxed out in G.

Something's out of place somewhere, it's just a question of what! Chelsea are almost certainly not maxed out in Package D already, so there has to be a swap or Package G game somewhere in there. I'm tempted to say Southampton-Chelsea is in G (supported by the unusually high number of Southampton games in the Sun 16:00 slot thus far) but that would mean a rethink regarding R13 (again!)

I think if Sky want to use the Saturday 12:30 slot, the Package F game moves to Sunday 12:00, but I could be wrong. If two fourth picks aren't allowed - I don't think there would be a problem - I'd say Arsenal v Bournemouth is a fifth pick in C.


I think the only Chelsea game in question is Southampton away in Week 10. As you say, the possible swaps would all negate the filling of a min quota for another club. And I'm sure Chelsea v Hull was picked to fill the latter's min quota in Package D.

In my opinion, Watford v Stoke just looks too good not to be a Package D quota filler. I don't think Chelsea being maxed out in Package D is an issue. Remember, there are only two big Chelsea weekend games to be picked - Arsenal (h) in Week 24 and Man Utd (a) in Week 33. The latter is sandwiched by the Europa League quarter finals so Sky might be able to engineer a swap from Package A. And Sky will still be able to get another Sunday 16:00 game using their remaining package G game. In fact, I'll predict that game will be West Ham v Chelsea in Week 27.

So we have a new regular kick off time of 17:30 this season

So why are the Sky games over Christmas all at 17:15 ??

To give more time before the Newcastle United v Sheffield Wednesday game at 19:45 on Boxing Day, and I guess to get the football done before the darts on the other two evenings.

Few more murmurs on how weak Super Sunday on Twitter has been at the start of this season, are Sky making a mistake by having weaker Sundays?

It isnt Skys fault they cant use teams involved in Champions League on a Sunday.

But in my mind if you like Football then you like Football, and will watch anything.

I hear it is a big Night in Football Tonight, The FA Cup 1st round Draw.

They can. Absolutely nothing wrong with Sunday-Wednesday.

Indeed, it's actually better than Monday-Thursday which is what Man Utd have this week.

I guess but it is obviously not seen that way.

Liverpool playing Manchester United is baffling, as The Premier League should be encouraging, there teams, to perform well in Europe, but they are morealess saying, you can play on Monday Night, as you can just field a second 11 on Thursday Night, in a game they really need 3 points in.

You could say this will be the hardest season to get in the top 4, and winning the Europa League could be the main avenue

That's not the problem. The problem is that the picks are made before we know what night the Champions League teams are playing on.