Sky Sports was (is?) the sponsor

Just checked past games
Watford v Man u was on talksport

So by this logic it is package B

Yes, but hardly likely they'd be sponsoring coverage of a game that was being shown on their Commercial TV rival... because the sponsorship would incline anyone hearing it to try and find the TV broadcast if they were in TV range.
Last edited by brundlebud : 26-10-2016 at 11:14

I don't understand this. Sky Sports also sponsored Absolute's coverage of the Saturday 3pm games, which of course weren't on Sky. And most of talkSport's games this season are matches that are shown on BT Sport.

There's no correlation between Sky Sports sponsoring the coverage and the selected games being on Sky Sports. If anything it makes more sense to sponsor coverage of matches that are on other channels because it gets their name attached to another match.

Errr, they're sponsoring the radio coverage

On your second point: he sponsorship does not indicate that the game is actually on TV; anyway the amount of people listening to a PL radio commentary outside Saturday 3pm and not realising it's on TV must be in the tens.

So I've looked at the possibility that the radio swaps could give a clue about the TV packages. Here's what we know about the radio packages:

1. BBC 5Live have 5 of the 8 packages. This includes most of the Saturday 12:30, Saturday 15:00, Sunday 16:00 and Monday/Friday 20:00 slots.

2. The BBC have 144 live games*.

3. TalkSPORT have the other 3 packages. This includes Saturday 15:00, Saturday 17:30 and Sunday 13:30.

4. TalkSPORT have 28 games in each of the Saturday 17:30 and Sunday 13:30 slots*.

That TalkSPORT have 28 games in their two televised slots suggests that they match the TV packages for these slots. Furthermore, if we assume the same for 5Live, then the three main televised packages would come to 84 games. If we exclude the last weekend of the season, then there are 32 Saturday 15:00 games. That takes the total to 116. This leaves 28 games which coincidentally is the number of games in Package F and G.

Unlike (I think) in previous seasons, a number of games have been broadcast by the BBC that would ordinarily be broadcast by TalkSPORT. This would suggest that the radio packages have been aligned with TV packages. So could it be the case that when 5Live has a game in the Saturday 17:30, Sunday 12:00 or Sunday 13:30/14:15 slot, does that mean that the game is from Package F or G?

Here are two spreadsheets showing the packages that I thought the games were in and the second showing what the radio rule would suggest:

2016-17
2016-17 Radio

Here are the games where the radio rule matches what I had:

5 - Sunday 12:00 - Watford v Man Utd - F4
10 - Saturday 17:30 - Crystal Palace v Liverpool - F2
12 - Saturday 17:30 - Tottenham v West Ham - F4
15 - Sunday 12:00 - Chelsea v West Brom - F4

It's worth saying that with 5Live having the Sunday 16:00/16:30 games, it's not possible to identify Package G games in these slots.

Here are the weeks where the radio rule would suggest different packages. The packages in bold are those according to the radio rule and those in brackets are what I had originally thought.

Week 8

Sat 12:30 - TS - Chelsea v Leicester - C2 (C4)
Sat 17:30 - 5L - Crystal Palace v West Ham - F4 (B5)
Sun 13:30 - 5L - Middlesbrough v Watford - A5 (A2)
Sun 16:00 - 5L - Southampton v Burnley - D1 (D1)
Mon 20:00 - 5L - Liverpool v Man Utd - E3 (E3)

When the new packages were revealed last year, one thing I assumed was that BT would make sure that each of their eight weekend games in Package F would feature a Big 6 club. So to see Crystal Palace v West Ham as a fourth pick in Package F is a surprise. It's worth noting that BT would have picked this game over the Man City v Everton and Arsenal v Swansea. I have previously speculated that BT have issues with Everton in Package F, but the radio rule suggests that Chelsea v Everton is a Package B game (see Week 11). So I think BT could have picked Man City v Everton and still got Everton v Arsenal and Man Utd v Everton as midweek picks. However, if BT were determined to take West Ham v Man City in January and, presumably, Chelsea v Man City in April, then Man City v Everton was off limits. Alternatively they could have taken Arsenal v Swansea in Week 8 or not used a fourth pick in Package F and taken Palace v West Ham as a fifth pick in Package B. Yes, it would mean the fourth pick in Package F would effectively become a fifth or even sixth pick, but at some point a decent enough Big 6 game would come up

Anyway, the West Ham quota is filled by their game with Arsenal (see Week 14), but the Palace quota isn't. So a test of this rule is to see if BT pick Palace in the Saturday 17:30 slot with it live on TalkSPORT.

Week 9

Sat 12:30 - 5L - Bournemouth v Tottenham - A2 (A2)
Sat 17:30 - TS - Liverpool v West Brom - B5 (B3)
Sun 13:30 - 5L - Man City v Southampton - G3 (C4)
Sun 16:00 - 5L - Chelsea v Man Utd - D1 (D1)

As 5Live covered Man City v Southampton, this game would appear to be a third pick from Package G. That means that Liverpool v West Brom is a fifth pick from Package B. It also appears that one of Sky or BT didn't use their fourth pick. I guess it would be BT, but they appear to have managed to use all of their fourth picks.

Week 11

Sat 17:30 - TS - Chelsea v Everton - B3 (B1)
Sun 12:00 - TS - Arsenal v Tottenham - B1 (F2)
Sun 14:15 - TS - Liverpool v Watford - C2 (G3)
Sun 16:30 - 5L - Leicester v West Brom - D4 (D4)

With TalkSPORT doing both Chelsea v Everton and Arsenal v Tottenham, it would appear that both are from Package B. I didn't expect this to happen, but I guess it would get Arsenal v Tottenham back to being a first pick. I have put Chelsea v Everton down as a third pick, but it might just be the case that they didn't use their second pick in Package F and got this game as a fifth pick in Package B.

What I am really surprised about is that Liverpool v Watford appears to be a Package C game. That looked to me like a Package G game with Sky filling the Watford min quota in Package C with their game against Spurs on New Year's Day. Perhaps Leicester v West Brom is a Package G game, but that would leave the West Brom min quota in Package D to be filled.

Week 13

Sat 12:30 - 5L - Burnley v Man City - F2 (F2)
Sat 17:30 - TS - Chelsea v Tottenham - B1 (B1)
Sun 12:00 - 5L - Watford v Stoke - G3 or E3 (D4)
Sun 14:15 - TS - Arsenal v Bournemouth - C5 (C5 or E4)
Sun 16:30 - 5L - Southampton v Everton - D4 (G3)

If Man City v Southampton in Week 9 is a Package G game, that means Southampton v Everton cannot be. Furthermore, we had wondered if Arsenal v Bournemouth was a Package E game, but as it's on TalkSPORT, it would appear to be a Package C game. So if Southampton v Everton is a Package D game, that would suggest that Watford v Stoke isn't. That could be a Package G game (which would confirm Leicester v West Brom as Package D game as Sky need two Package G games to get their fill of Liverpool and Chelsea). Alternatively, it could be a Package E game that couldn't be played on the Monday night in case either Watford or Stoke were involved in the League Cup quarter final. This would suggest that Sky don't have to use one of their Friday games when two teams can play on Friday but not Monday.

Week 14

Sat 12:30 - 5L - Man City v Chelsea - A2 (A2)
Sat 17:30 - TS - West Ham v Arsenal - B3 (F4)
Sun 13:30 - TS - Bournemouth v Liverpool - C5 (C5)
Sun 14:15 - 5L - Everton v Man Utd - D1 (D1)
Mon 20:00 - 5L - Middlesbrough v Hull - E4 (E3)

West Ham v Arsenal would appear to be a Package B game as it is on TalkSPORT. But Bournemouth v Liverpool appears to be a Package C game (rather than G) as that is also on TalkSPORT.

Week 21

Sat 12:30 - ? - Tottenham v West Brom - A2 (A2)
Sat 17:30 - ? - Leicester v Chelsea - B3 (B3)
Sun 13:30 - ? - Everton v Man City - C4 (G3)
Sun 16:00 - ? - Man Utd v Liverpool - D1 (D1)

We don't know the radio games for Week 21, but as Man City v Southampton appears to be a Package G game, this would suggest that Everton v Man City is a Package C game. This would be supported by it being on TalkSPORT. It's worth saying that the lack of a Package G game featuring Everton means that the omission of Leicester v Everton on Boxing Day looks a bit odd. Perhaps Sky just wanted to get as many teams on TV over Christmas and so it worked better that way.

So if the radio rule is correct, it means that BT are on four picks for Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester and Man City. It also means that Sky still have to get Chelsea and Liverpool in Package G as well as filling nine min quotas rather than five. It feels like the rule should work, but some of the picks do look odd. As ever with these things, there are things that would disprove the rule (e.g. Palace not appearing in Package B), but not many things that would prove the rule for sure.

* http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36348224
** http://talksport.com/press/talksport...r-160520196679

Not according to bwfcol on the radio thread

Tottenham v Burnley moved to Sun 18th Dec. Can't think why.

This follows a request to the Premier League from both the clubs, following the recent fixture changes for broadcast purposes.

Basically Tottenham dont want to play Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday

The rescheduled date will also allow the squad additional recovery time after a busy run of fixtures which will see Spurs play seven games in 25 days after the November international break, before heading into the festive period of fixtures.

Thanks

Slippery slope. Sunday-Wednesday-Saturday is not an unreasonable schedule. If they do it for Spurs they should do it for everyone.

Trying to remember the last time a club asked to do this because of rest. Fans on my Twitter TL moaning that the Club should have announced this change when the Dec/Jan tv fixtures were announced. Can't really give them an answer.

There is nothing wrong with playing Sunday-Wednesday-Saturday and I think the Premier League should have refused the request.

No different to playing Saturday, Tuesday, Friday, which ourselves (Huddersfield) and Norwich have to do from Dec 10th-16th (at least the last 2 of those for Norwich are at home, for us it's Burton away and Norwich away) because of the Norwich v Huddersfield game being live on Sky on the Friday night. Also their players play less games (are no doubt a bit fitter) and have bigger squads, so they should be able to cope better than teams in the EFL with that schedule once in a while.

Apologies if that's slightly off topic talking about the EFL, just giving another example.

Watford vs Utd was 100% on 5Live

The latest schedules reveal that Spurs vs West Ham at 5:30 is on 5Live

No further schedules have been released so not sure on future picks

Why is package E limited to 4 games per team when the others have 5. Forces Sky to show some really weak games in the Fri/Mon night slot.

I assume it's a nod to the match going supporters. It might be a bit complicated, but I would like to see a second caveat to say that a team can only play a maximum of three times on a Monday night as personally I think Friday is a lot better than Monday.

Spurs themselves have done this before, Spurs 9 Wigan 1 was an untelevised Sunday 3pm kick-off. Spurs requested it was moved back 24 hours because it was the weekend after an international break and they wanted to give their players more time to get back. Wigan agreed, and it was moved to the Sunday. So there is certainly a precedent.

You could also suggest that the Saturday before Christmas is notoriously a very poor day for attendances. In the seventies and eighties, there were often very few fixtures on that day for that reason and many clubs played on the Friday night.

That's some precedent! I wonder if Burnley had been reminded about that game whether they'd have agreed to it?

I still think it's a shame the midweek round is before the 17/18 December rather than after it.

Tottenham v Burnley being moved is strange, especially when the clubs don't play until Boxing Day after that.

You're right about the Saturday Before Christmas not being strong.

Am I right in remembering many moons back, probably before Premier League, you got a whole bundle of fixtures on the Friday Night, of that week, only a few on the Saturday, and then a chunk on the sunday

Talksport confirm
liv v man c
wat v tot
suggests they are B and C

Watford, in my opinion, casts doubt on this theory. Liverpool v Watford looks like a Package G game and Watford v Spurs looks like a Package C quota filler. However, the former will be broadcast by TalkSPORT which suggests it a Package C game. I suppose that could be the case, but Liverpool v Watford seems an odd choice if it isn't a Package G game.

Assuming this theory to be correct (Which IS looking more and more likely)

BT Sport Package B

They have picked 17 out of the 28 games

They have chosen 1 game 15 times
They have chosen 2 games once
They have missed 3 weekends so far

So in the Final 14 weekends they have only 11 picks

So Logic would say they would miss out
1 Cup Semi Final Weekend
2 Final Sunday
3 The week when they pick their last Package F game

At the moment we have no confirmation that Liverpool v Swansea is from F

But this would mean they still have to fill minimum quota on
Bournemouth, Burnley,Palace, Southampton,Swansea and Watford

And they also have 3 First Choices left

Maximum Quotas
4 Arsenal Chelsea Leicester Man C
3 Liverpool Man U Spurs

So they Could do the following
1st picks
4 Feb Leicester v Man U
11 Mar Southampton v Man U
1 Apr Arsenal v Man City

And then pick up
25 Feb Chelsea v Swansea
18 Mar Palace v Watford
13 May Bournemouth v Burnley

The problem is they will be way off on Liverpool

BT will have to assume Sky will pick all the Top 5 for last 6 weeks of season where they can...

I think BT will take Liverpool v Spurs on 11 Mar if offered first pick. I think Southampton shouldn't be a problem for BT - maybe West Brom away in Week 32. However, they really can't plan on filling the Bournemouth and Burnley quotas in Week 37!