|
||||||||
Why have we fallen out of love with songwriters? |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2
|
Why have we fallen out of love with songwriters?
Not being able to write songs by themselves or play an instrument has never been an obstacle to commercial success for artists like Beyonce and Kanye West. But it is only in recent years that such artists have won over critics and, for want of a better phrase, music snobs.
Despite requiring 60 songwriters-for-hire, Beyonce’s Lemonade is the best reviewed album of the year, according to Metacritic. The internet is awash with critics and fans dissecting the meanings behind its tracks. It is being worshipped in a fashion that used to be exclusively reserved for artists like Radiohead. The releases of Kanye West, Kendrick Lamar and Drake have been getting the same treatment. Beyonce may have made her name “shaking her arse for a living,” as Noel Gallagher so eloquently put it. But you are now as likely to read an article called “Beyonce's 'Lemonade' Is an Anthem for the Retribution of Black Women” as one called “How Beyonce trimmed down from 148 pounds to 115 pounds in a couple of weeks!” Lemonade has been revered as an intensely personal and intimate album about the infidelity of Beyonce’s husband Jay-Z. Plenty of brilliant art has been born from pain, but can it really be claimed that Lemonade comes from a real place, given that it was crafted by an army of professional songwriters? Isn’t the appeal of the album’s incessant references to Jay-Z’s cheating (which itself may just be a marketing invention) of the same variety as a sordid splash from Heat magazine? For something that has been hailed as a relatable anthem for disadvantaged black women, there sure are a lot of references to Givenchy, paparazzi and “average bitches.” I suppose what I’m asking is this: why has it become cool to listen to music that reeks of focus groups and corporate strategy, and why have we turned our back on music imbued with authentic, rather than constructed, personality? |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,708
|
Quote:
I suppose what I’m asking is this: why has it become cool to listen to music that reeks of focus groups and corporate strategy, and why have we turned our back on music imbued with authentic, rather than constructed, personality?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,320
|
It isn't new.
Frank Sinatra never wrote his songs either. |
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The rolling Green of Wales.
Posts: 16,031
|
I adore Dusty Springfield and Dusty In Memphis is one of the greatest albums of all time said by both music lovers and critics. She didn't write a single song on that album. She arranged it maybe produced it but that vocal was purely hers. It is nothing new, nothing to be derided and no artists should be criticised as long as they have another gift to back it up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 7,287
|
Quote:
I suppose what I’m asking is this: why has it become cool to listen to music that reeks of focus groups and corporate strategy, and why have we turned our back on music imbued with authentic, rather than constructed, personality? What makes Springsteen's espousal of blue collar values authentic when he is a multi-millionaire touring the world living out his dream? The answer of course is that music is stands on its own merits irrespective of the context in which in which it was created. |
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,979
|
Quote:
It isn't new.
Frank Sinatra never wrote his songs either. I really couldn't give a shit who or how many write a song. I like it or I don't. |
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,320
|
Quote:
Nor Elvis.
I really couldn't give a shit who or how many write a song. I like it or I don't. I do wonder if this is connected to the idea that producers are also 'stars'. Most music today is vastly overproduced, and that is mainly, I think, due to some very high profile teams having to justify their existence and their undoubtedly huge fees. This thing about song writers seems to tie into that obsession with the construction of the music more than the enjoyment of the melody and how it makes you feel. |
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 2,504
|
Quote:
Actually, turning the question back to you. Why can't an album that is created in a collaborative manner not be artistic and authentic? Why does artistic endeavour have to be undertaken by the sole, suffering individual?
The answer of course is that music is stands on its own merits irrespective of the context in which in which it was created. Mac DeMarco's songs are a good example of this. I feel that I can feel his life in his songs, like 'Freaking Out the Neighbourhood' and 'Ode to Viceroy', about his favourite cigarettes. I couldn't connect to DIIV - Dopmaine if it was written by people who didn't have Zachary Cole Smith's experiences. Not that I've been addicted to heroin. |
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North-West England
Posts: 25,883
|
Quote:
It isn't new.
Frank Sinatra never wrote his songs either. Apart from having a great voice, Sinatra was a genius at the interpretation and phrasing of some great lyrics. Songs need both qualities. |
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,453
|
why do people care so much how many people or who writes a song? why can't you just enjoy a song if you enjoy it or don't if you don't. whitney is my favourite singer ever, but she never wrote any of her songs. i feel like making music is a collaborative process just as much as it is a personal one. stop being so pretentious and lighten up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belfast
Posts: 7,287
|
Quote:
I prefer knowing that the person delivering the song created it themselves.
Mac DeMarco's songs are a good example of this. I feel that I can feel his life in his songs, like 'Freaking Out the Neighbourhood' and 'Ode to Viceroy', about his favourite cigarettes. I couldn't connect to DIIV - Dopmaine if it was written by people who didn't have Zachary Cole Smith's experiences. Not that I've been addicted to heroin. I like Lou Reed's 'Heroin' which catches the 'rush' better than DIIV. I've read Lou's biography to find that he wasn't a heavy user nor an addict but controlled his usage. He also wrote the song when he was a songwriter writing for others but it didn't get used. The point is what makes this song authentic...Lou being a user, the music sounding like the Heroin rush? The flow of thoughts in the mind of the singer driven by the drug? But if you've never been a user how would you know if any of this is actually true? At the same time I love Springsteen's 'Born in the USA'. Bruce never served in Vietnam but he could write about the treatment of the returning soldiers. Is this authentic? It's not something Bruce ever actually experienced but does the story ring true? Yes, it does. Carole King and Gerry Goffin wrote 'Will You Still Love me, Tomorrow? What did The Shirelles draw on when they sang the song, perhaps their own experiences with boys? They didn't need to write the song to understand that. You don't always have to have written the song to bring yourself to the performance. E.g. Sinead O'Connor and Nothing Compares 2 U. |
|
|
|
|
#12 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 824
|
My most favorite singer James Otto does a lot of songwriting. His biggest song as a singer "Just Got Started Lovin' You" and as just a writer "In Color" are both from his heart.
![]() God bless you and him always!!! ![]() Holly P.S. My newest favorite singer, late beautiful precious Billy Joe Royal, had a hand in writing one of his biggest songs named "Love Has No Right".
|
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: West London
Posts: 24,324
|
Quote:
It isn't new.
Frank Sinatra never wrote his songs either. For example, on In the Wee Small Hours, three of the sixteen songs were written by Richard Rogers and Lorenz Hart, one of the most successful and respected songwriting teams in the history of the genre. The remaining thirteen were each written by one, two or three writers (and Sinatra does get a credit). It's maybe wrong to say we've fallen out of love with songwriters, but the golden age of witty lyricists partnering with outstanding composers is long gone. |
|
|
|
|
|
#14 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,121
|
Quote:
No, but songwriters did.
For example, on In the Wee Small Hours, three of the sixteen songs were written by Richard Rogers and Lorenz Hart, one of the most successful and respected songwriting teams in the history of the genre. The remaining thirteen were each written by one, two or three writers (and Sinatra does get a credit). It's maybe wrong to say we've fallen out of love with songwriters, but the golden age of witty lyricists partnering with outstanding composers is long gone. |
|
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London- I come in peace :D
Posts: 2,652
|
Quote:
why do people care so much how many people or who writes a song? why can't you just enjoy a song if you enjoy it or don't if you don't. whitney is my favourite singer ever, but she never wrote any of her songs. i feel like making music is a collaborative process just as much as it is a personal one. stop being so pretentious and lighten up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#16 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2
|
Quote:
I think the OP really meant singer-songwriters.
A lot of the posts in this thread seem to be saying that what matters is whether a song is enjoyable, rather than its origin. But the success of artists who don't write their own songs is not in itself a problem. What is the problem then? One of them is that those artists are being revered as creative geniuses, despite having little involvement in the creative process behind their music. Lemonade is being feverishly dissected in the same way Blonde on Blonde was, as if it's a slice of inspired artistry from a single creative voice. The reality is that dozens of corporate songwriters made Lemonade. Another problem: there is little truly great music that has been manufactured for commercial gain, though this is of course a matter of opinion. Beyonce and Drake are part of a money-making machine. Every note on their records have been processed by a team of professional songwriters and executives, fine-tuned to maximise the likelihood of a smash hit. And it's easy to tell, as is almost always the case when artistic inspiration is replaced by second-guessing what people want to hear. Beyonce is to real music what quorn is to a juicy steak. But this is a pretty old-fashioned way of looking at things, it would seem. Everyone is going wild for quorn recently (case in point: Lemonade being the best reviewed album of the year) and I can't work out why. Can anyone else? By the way, I would say Elvis and Sinatra are different because of their exceptional voice and charisma, neither of which Beyonce or Drake has. And because their songs tended to be written by one or two songwriters. |
|
|
|
|
|
#17 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,121
|
Quote:
I meant that we seem to have fallen out of love with songs that weren't created by a small army.
A lot of the posts in this thread seem to be saying that what matters is whether a song is enjoyable, rather than its origin. But the success of artists who don't write their own songs is not in itself a problem. What is the problem then? One of them is that those artists are being revered as creative geniuses, despite having little involvement in the creative process behind their music. Lemonade is being feverishly dissected in the same way Blonde on Blonde was, as if it's a slice of inspired artistry from a single creative voice. The reality is that dozens of corporate songwriters made Lemonade. Another problem: there is little truly great music that has been manufactured for commercial gain, though this is of course a matter of opinion. Beyonce and Drake are part of a money-making machine. Every note on their records have been processed by a team of professional songwriters and executives, fine-tuned to maximise the likelihood of a smash hit. And it's easy to tell, as is almost always the case when artistic inspiration is replaced by second-guessing what people want to hear. Beyonce is to real music what quorn is to a juicy steak. But this is a pretty old-fashioned way of looking at things, it would seem. Everyone is going wild for quorn recently (case in point: Lemonade being the best reviewed album of the year) and I can't work out why. Can anyone else? By the way, I would say Elvis and Sinatra are different because of their exceptional voice and charisma, neither of which Beyonce or Drake has. And because their songs tended to be written by one or two songwriters. Casablanca had three credited writers and a couple uncredited and was voted the best screenplay of all time by the writers guild of America. Collaboration can produce great works just as much as a single writer can. |
|
|
|
|
|
#18 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: goo goo ka choo
Posts: 25,524
|
Quote:
Do you think Bob Dylan didn't want to make money from Music?
Casablanca had three credited writers and a couple uncredited and was voted the best screenplay of all time by the writers guild of America. Collaboration can produce great works just as much as a single writer can. |
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 14:42.


