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Jay McGuiness and Aliona Vilani appreciation thread - Part 6
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Lola the cat
13-11-2016
I think that what a lot of people who post on the forums forget is that Strictly is not a dance competition, if it was a proper competition it would be be on a Wednesday at 11pm on BB4 and have real judges who knew what they were talking about. But it’s not, it’s a Saturday night light entertainment programme about celebs learning to dance / improving their dance (delete as appropriate). With the best will in the world, even those who have some dance experience are never going to learn the real dances in a week, they can achieve an approximation or Strictly version of a dance.

What makes someone popular are a number of factors, not just how well they do a heel-lead. The vast majority of the 10 million-plus viewers just want to be entertained on a dreary, dark late Autumn night. 2016 hasn’t been a great year and is going to go down in history as not one of the best. We have had numerous deaths of favourite personalities, Brexit, austerity, Trump, people genuinely worried about what the future holds and into that mix dances Ed Balls. I truly believe that Ed is getting the popular vote at the moment, I’m not saying he will definitely win, we all know that winning the popular vote doesn’t necessarily mean you become President, but at the moment Ed is making people smile and laugh together. I want Ed to win, he deserves it as much as anyone else taking part, it is not, in my opinion, an engineered by TPTB or the judges journey for him. It is his journey, he makes people happy and surely making people happy counts more a perfectly precise but dull routine.

Anyway, that's my opinion, you may all ignore.
BMLisa
13-11-2016
Katya is brilliant and deserves recognition too, she's actually teaching him to dance.

She reminds me of Aliona who was tough even with the less able on technique.

I think Aliona did less well with less able as she didn't seem a fan of going the comedy route.
RaffertyCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by jayfan:
“Hi Fridgesoup

I did wonder if Damien might not want to engage in conversation with me but he was very pleasant and is obviously Jay's friend as well as his manager.

I also thought the orchestra was slightly too loud and I was in the Circle. In the big (no pun intended) numbers and the crescendos, I felt all the soloists were almost fighting to be heard above orchestra. I thought the music could also have been slightly slower to let the lyrics, which are central to the story, be more prominent. No idea if that makes any sense in musical terms. My hearing is not great though so I may not be a good judge. No doubt things will evolve as the show develops and moves to different theatres.

I have noticed generally that shows seem to be louder these days, perhaps because they can't rely on audiences to behave. At the risk of sounding like a female Victor Meldrew, I did mutter under my breath when the woman in front of me waited for the musical to begin to give her group of kids a bag of sweets each to open noisily.

I will do more of a review later but just to agree with Nelliek that Jay acted with his whole body. I thought he was captivating and I don't think that is just me being an obsessive Jay fan. Can't wait to be in the stalls in Dublin to be closer to the stage.

As I said before, the show was really well received on Saturday afternoon with an audience who I am pretty sure were largely not SCD or TW fans.”

BIB. I hear you, sister. I can remember asking the manager of a local cinema, why they sold popcorn in packaging, that was the rustliest in the land. I went further, to make a suggestion that would solve the problem, with immediate effect. Fortunately, we were friends, so he knew that I was being 'tongue in cheek'. However, I was gratified to discover, that a short time later, popcorn was being sold in paper tubs - even though a single tub could easily feed the population of a small village.

Thank you to all for your reviews and impressions of BIG: the show, and Jay, in particular. Thank you also for the pics and poems. All very much appreciated in this 'Household of the Frenzied Fingers' (typing ones, that is)....
janetshep
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“I thought Edwas a your typical Jeremy vine/Ann Widdecome joke act and didn't take seriously that he could win. But with stats like that hes a real contender”

I think Ed has something that neither Jeremy nor Anne Widdecome had. Both of them at various times (well, Anne all the time!) were embarrasing to watch; Anne because she made no attempt at all at dancing and Jeremy because he often looked like a daddy-long-legs dancing and neither of them were enjoying it enough to enthuse the audience.

The difference with Ed is that Katya is giving him proper choreography so he is actually dancing and he is exuding so much joy doing it that you (well I!) can't help but feel happy and want him to do well. As long as Katya can keep including enjoyable bits in his ballroom choreography (so he doesn't fall into that ' he isn't very good, but he isn't being funny either' trap) then he could easily get to the final. Whether he can win is another question - but the world has been seriously surprised twice this year ,so stranger things have happened
KorkyTheCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by BionicBard:
“And oh, the cameraderie and fun
Of being together for an extended run
Amazing audiences every night
And a feeling that everything's come right!”

And soon he'll be the talk of the town
Overwhelmed by loving acclaim and renown
His fame through the weeks will quickly grow
As millions will visit this must-see show
fridgesoup
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by Lola the cat:
“ I truly believe that Ed is getting the popular vote at the moment, I’m not saying he will definitely win, we all know that winning the popular vote doesn’t necessarily mean you become President, but at the moment Ed is making people smile and laugh together. I want Ed to win, he deserves it as much as anyone else taking part, it is not, in my opinion, an engineered by TPTB or the judges journey for him. It is his journey, he makes people happy and surely making people happy counts more a perfectly precise but dull routine.

Anyway, that's my opinion, you may all ignore.”

I agree. Ed's been bottom with the judges every week, I think, so he must be connecting with the public. I also think people are laughing with him, not at him. It matters to me that he's trying his best, too - there have been duffers who didn't - and also that he absolutely gets the nuttiness of the situation. Some person fulminating on the MF said he should do the decent thing and withdraw. Of for goodness sake! Total lack of perspective and what an insult to his partner who has worked her socks off to give him entertaining routines with a ton of content. He might not be able to do all of it , but my goodness, he tries! Those lifts this week were brilliant. (Frightened the life out of me, mind )


Originally Posted by BMLisa:
“Katya is brilliant and deserves recognition too, she's actually teaching him to dance.

She reminds me of Aliona who was tough even with the less able on technique.

I think Aliona did less well with less able as she didn't seem a fan of going the comedy route.”

Yep. She could have taken the well trodden path of "distraction" choreography, but Ed does everything she does (just not so well ). I think Katya's fab (and, yes, she reminds me of Ali)
BionicBard
13-11-2016
Ed entered the contest as an unfit no hoper, but has caught the imagination of some people, rather like Ann Widdecombe, so they have that in common.

But times are changing and things that previously seemed impossible are happening on the world stage. It's the zeitgeist - who dares wins, and I think that's maybe what TPTB are tapping in to.

Ed can dance, and if he'd bothered to get a bit fitter before he started, as other contestants have, might have done reasonably well on dance merits. I think it's a shame that his partner tended to dance round him to start with, which did him no favours.

But it is a dance competition and I'd like to see the best dancer win, as he did last year. What if Jay had gone out because Jeremy was 'more entertaining'?
jayfan
13-11-2016
As mentioned, I was discussing SCD with friends tonight
(like a normal SCD fan, not like a mad one who does a day trip to Plymouth to see last year's winner) and one of them thought the final 3 would be Louise, Ore and Danny. Several of us said how boring that would be.
If Ed was like Ann W, Judy M, or any other of the comedy contestants, I would not ever think of voting for him. But as others have said, he is trying to dance, has a sense of rhythm, and a great partner who has made the effort to teach him and who has put together some exciting, enjoyable routines to show what he can do. I really hope he stays in and gets to the final and resists any demands to pull out.
RaffertyCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by BionicBard:
“And oh, the cameraderie and fun
Of being together for an extended run
Amazing audiences every night
And a feeling that everything's come right!”

Originally Posted by KorkyTheCat:
“And soon he'll be the talk of the town
Overwhelmed by loving acclaim and renown
His fame through the weeks will quickly grow
As millions will visit this must-see show”

Surely the best acclaim of all
Would be to hear this widespread call
To see more of Jay on the theatre stage.
Or maybe when he turns the page,
And decides to venture into pastures new,
We'd all be wanting to be in the queue,
To cheer him on with lusty zest,
And to wish him all the very best.
nelliek
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by Dufnut:
“Hi everyone!

The songs and dance routines were really good, the only criticism I had was that sometimes the orchestra overpowered the voices and I couldn't always make out the lyrics, but that could have been my hearing!!

”

Originally Posted by fridgesoup:
“
BIB. Not your hearing! Rosedroplet and I said the same. I thought the tech guys might have made some adjustments, but maybe not. Not sure everyone who went the same night thought the same, so I wondered if it varied depending on where you were sitting . (We were in the middle of the stalls).”

Originally Posted by CatO9Tales:
“BIB - same here (on the Monday).”

Originally Posted by jayfan:
“Hi Fridgesoup

I also thought the orchestra was slightly too loud and I was in the Circle. In the big (no pun intended) numbers and the crescendos, I felt all the soloists were almost fighting to be heard above orchestra. I thought the music could also have been slightly slower to let the lyrics, which are central to the story, be more prominent. No idea if that makes any sense in musical terms. My hearing is not great though so I may not be a good judge. No doubt things will evolve as the show develops and moves to different theatres.”

Firstly, apologies for snipping some posts in order to retain the relevant bits.

One of my 'further comments' was going to be about the sound level of the orchestra with the rider 'but it might just be my hearing'.
Because I wanted to see the stage from different angles I sat in three different areas of the theatre. First and second shows I sat on the left-hand side of the stage, about five/six rows back from the stage. Music was definitely overpowering the vocals.
Saturday afternoon I sat in row E of the stalls, three seats in from the end of the row.
The sound was a lot better - particularly noticeable in Jessica's solos 'Say good morning to mom' and 'Stop time' as I was able to hear most of her words instead of only every fourth or fifth one.
Saturday evening I was in the circle, row D, end of row at right-hand side. Vocals sound better than on the left, but not as good as in the stalls. Music still way too loud though.

Incidentally, for anyone booking in the future I would recommend stalls, centre to right-hand side of stage, or centre circle. You're then able to see the Baskins 'house' completely.
In the circle (certainly at Plymouth anyway) sitting to the right of the stage in the circle you run the risk of lights getting in the way of you seeing the top floor of Billy's 'house'.

If you want to see the dancers' feet, in the stalls you need to sit in a row level with the stage.
The piano goes across the front of the stage so you see the lights go on as the notes are played, but to see everyone dancing on the piano you do need to be in the circle.
KorkyTheCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by jayfan:
“As mentioned, I was discussing SCD with friends tonight
(like a normal SCD fan, not like a mad one who does a day trip to Plymouth to see last year's winner) and one of them thought the final 3 would be Louise, Ore and Danny. Several of us said how boring that would be.
If Ed was like Ann W, Judy M, or any other of the comedy contestants, I would not ever think of voting for him. But as others have said, he is trying to dance, has a sense of rhythm, and a great partner who has made the effort to teach him and who has put together some exciting, enjoyable routines to show what he can do. I really hope he stays in and gets to the final and resists any demands to pull out.”

Not at all mad, Jayfan, just loyal and steadfast and true.

I've voted for Ed too because he's a brave trIer who can dance, just not too well. I like his humour and I like academics and writers.

I'd like a final of Ed, Greg and Claudia, but I know that won't happen.
KorkyTheCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by RaffertyCat:
“Surely the best acclaim of all
Would be to hear this widespread call
To see more of Jay on the theatre stage.
Or maybe when he turns the page,
And decides to venture into pastures new,
We'd all be wanting to be in the queue,
To cheer him on with lusty zest,
And to wish him all the very best.”

I only hope
That I'm still here
When Sir Jay gives
His great King Lear
BionicBard
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by RaffertyCat:
“Surely the best acclaim of all
Would be to hear this widespread call
To see more of Jay on the theatre stage.
Or maybe when he turns the page,
And decides to venture into pastures new,
We'd all be wanting to be in the queue,
To cheer him on with lusty zest,
And to wish him all the very best.”

The world will be an opening door
With wonderful opportunities galore
And as a man of open mind
He's well-equipped, the best to find
What life will bring we can never tell
But whatever he chooses he'll do it well
A talented, funny and popular man
I hope we'll see him whenever we can!
jan_butcher1
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by Lola the cat:
“I think that what a lot of people who post on the forums forget is that Strictly is not a dance competition, if it was a proper competition it would be be on a Wednesday at 11pm on BB4 and have real judges who knew what they were talking about. But it’s not, it’s a Saturday night light entertainment programme about celebs learning to dance / improving their dance (delete as appropriate). With the best will in the world, even those who have some dance experience are never going to learn the real dances in a week, they can achieve an approximation or Strictly version of a dance.

What makes someone popular are a number of factors, not just how well they do a heel-lead. The vast majority of the 10 million-plus viewers just want to be entertained on a dreary, dark late Autumn night. 2016 hasn’t been a great year and is going to go down in history as not one of the best. We have had numerous deaths of favourite personalities, Brexit, austerity, Trump, people genuinely worried about what the future holds and into that mix dances Ed Balls. I truly believe that Ed is getting the popular vote at the moment, I’m not saying he will definitely win, we all know that winning the popular vote doesn’t necessarily mean you become President, but at the moment Ed is making people smile and laugh together. I want Ed to win, he deserves it as much as anyone else taking part, it is not, in my opinion, an engineered by TPTB or the judges journey for him. It is his journey, he makes people happy and surely making people happy counts more a perfectly precise but dull routine.

Anyway, that's my opinion, you may all ignore.”

I agree!
BionicBard
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by KorkyTheCat:
“I only hope
That I'm still here
When Sir Jay gives
His great King Lear”

But Glenda wears that shaky crown
Getting rave reviews all over town
So disregarding Hamlet and Timon
I'd prefer to see him do Neil Simon!
RaffertyCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by BionicBard:
“The world will be an opening door
With wonderful opportunities galore
And as a man of open mind
He's well-equipped, the best to find
What life will bring we can never tell
But whatever he chooses he'll do it well
A talented, funny and popular man
I hope we'll see him whenever we can!”

But for now rest assured that we all know
That Jay has got all his ducks in a row
He's playing to audiences who love what they see
Some were surprised at how good he could be
As they might not have known about this shooting star
How lovely for them to discover how far
He can transport them to lands of childlike delight
It's all come together now and just feels so right!
KorkyTheCat
13-11-2016
Originally Posted by BionicBard:
“But Glenda wears that shaky crown
Getting rave reviews all over town
So disregarding Hamlet and Timon
I'd prefer to see him do Neil Simon!”

Or my fave by far,
An Alan Bennett
(If J's not a member
Of the U.S. Senate)
RaffertyCat
14-11-2016
Originally Posted by KorkyTheCat:
“Or my fave by far,
An Alan Bennett
(If J's not a member
Of the U.S. Senate)”

Jay for Senator, what a thought,
As we all know, he can't be bought.
So I wonder what they would make of him,
An honest and true man - not given to whim.
nelliek
14-11-2016
This bit is 'other things I spotted', and is in no way a criticism - it's all part of doing live theatre.
And the first one would make it the third of 'things come in threes' for Friday evening after the satchel and spacehopper hiccups already mentioned.
This is in the 'Coffee black' sequence, and Jay has to do a quite quick costume change for his entrance. I didn't notice anything at first then I suddenly thought 'white socks '. Then I looked again, and realised that I could see the socks because his trousers were above his ankles.
He'd obviously run out of time so he'd had to throw on the shirt, tie, and suit any old how, and completely forget the change of socks. The shirt collar didn't look right, and the tie wasn't done up properly. I would have thought that it would have been a 'clip-on' tie though that probably that wouldn't be possible because of the risk of it flying off during the dancing. I suppose even one on a piece of elastic would still be prone to not looking as if it had been properly done up.
Saturday afternoon he was back to black socks (wonder if he wore them under the white ones, and had just forgotten to take the white ones off the previous evening?) Trousers were the right length, and collar and tie looked as if they 'fitted', so obviously War Drobe Mark ll were back on form.

Meanwhile on Saturday afternoon Jessica missed catching the toast as it came out of the toaster so it landed in 'the street'. (She caught it exactly the other three times.)
And I swear that when Jay has to throw his pyjamas out of the cupboard that in the afternoon he only threw out the top, not the top and bottoms. Though as fridgesoup has said, the cupboard looks barely big enough for small Josh to fit into, let alone big Josh, so how he manages to strip off his pyjamas is one of life's mysteries. (Unless Korky is secretly hiding in the cupboard, giving him a helping hand. Memo to Korks - if anyone is going to be first in the queue for that job - it's me. Isih - please note. )

This is pure praise:

Reading my notes (as best I can because I was writing without really looking where I was writing so some of the words have been written over!) in the afternoon show I wrote 'Telling Susan he's only 13 - his voice is PERFECT. Such exact emotion.' and after that I wrote that word - vulnerability.
In the evening I wrote 'When telling Susan he's just a kid the emotion in his voice is just so perfect. Maureen will rush the stage.'
Obviously that scene made a big (sorry! ) impact on me.
Lola the cat
14-11-2016
The thing with watching a play, or a film, or a concert, is that the vast majority will watch it once and once only. They will not watch it multiple times in a short space of time. So when they see it they will be watching and enjoying the performance they see in front of them, they will not be comparing to another one seen only a few hours previous. It won’t matter a jot that white socks are being worn when 2 hours earlier black socks were, because they won’t know, and something you don’t know cannot be allowed to spoil the experience. It is live theatre, things happen as in real life, so some toast wasn’t caught, white socks were worn, a tie was askew. Going to watch it only once I won’t know that a few hours earlier the toast was caught, the socks were black and the tie was straight. I am going to see it to enjoy it, immerse myself in it and enjoy it for what I see on the day and not constantly think to myself, the socks were black 2 hours ago. Sometimes, less is more.
StrictlyRed
14-11-2016
Morning all!

I've just realised that I said I would post a review of Big, and I did mean to write one yesterday evening. Unfortunately, after a very busy weekend, I fell asleep during the Strictly results show and only woke up at 10.30.

Luckily, I had read the spoiler so knew who was eliminated.

Have just been catching up with reading everything I've missed on here for the last couple of days. Thanks to everyone who sent good wishes that I and everyone attending on Saturday would gave a great time.

Will do my best with a report today. Sorry it's late, folks.
nelliek
14-11-2016
Way back when we were all talking about booking tickets someone was asking about how the bedroom scene between Josh and Susan would be played out.
I've just been checking the imdb and the parental guidance for Big.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094737/...ef_=tt_stry_pg
All that's said in the musical is
Spoiler
A grown woman suggests that she may not be ready to stay the night with Josh. He says: "You mean sleep over? OK, but I get to be on top."
Obviously everyone laughs at that but adults laugh at a completely different meaning to a child as there's bunk beds in the room.
Prior to that Josh sings 'do you wanna play games?' which segues into Stars and a wonderful backdrop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDxy...8183E7107A95E4

The scene ends with Josh falling asleep in the top bunk and the scenery goes off-stage while Susan sings 'Little Susan Lawrence'.

Very much more innocent than the film.

Spoiler
In the scene, set in the New York Port Authority Bus Terminal, when Josh and Billy first go to New York there's a bit of stranger-danger where Josh sings 'That girl has a beard' and 'a man pulling a knife from his shoe' but it's not menacingly-scary.


Other stuff which comes under the 'parents guide'.

Spoiler
Mention has already been made of Jay in his undercrackers, and in the song he sings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry02...8183E7107A95E4
when it gets to 'all this hair' he looks at his armpits, and when you hear 'whoa' he's looking down into his undercrackers.
There's a scene where Josh and Susan try out a suggestion for a new toy for the company and Josh falls on top of Susan whereupon he suddenly leaps up, with a horrified look on his face and holds the boxing gloves he'd been wearing in front of his 'lower parts'.

Several 'assholes', possibly a bullshit and a damn (can't remember every single thing! ) a finger (though not sure if that would actually have been used in the 80s), and drinking at a party, though limited to pouring a glass rather than a dozen people getting totally Brahms and Listz.


Perhaps people who have seen the show could just read the spoilers and check if I've missed out anything of significance.
Certainly if a child has seen the film then they could see the musical without any problems. (Says me, speaking as someone who's only read what's in the imdb, as I haven't seen the film myself. Don't know if that fact is or )
nelliek
14-11-2016
Originally Posted by Lola the cat:
“The thing with watching a play, or a film, or a concert, is that the vast majority will watch it once and once only. They will not watch it multiple times in a short space of time. So when they see it they will be watching and enjoying the performance they see in front of them, they will not be comparing to another one seen only a few hours previous. It won’t matter a jot that white socks are being worn when 2 hours earlier black socks were, because they won’t know, and something you don’t know cannot be allowed to spoil the experience. It is live theatre, things happen as in real life, so some toast wasn’t caught, white socks were worn, a tie was askew. Going to watch it only once I won’t know that a few hours earlier the toast was caught, the socks were black and the tie was straight. I am going to see it to enjoy it, immerse myself in it and enjoy it for what I see on the day and not constantly think to myself, the socks were black 2 hours ago. Sometimes, less is more.”

I did say that I knew things went wrong in live theatre, and I know they were things that only someone who saw the show as frequently as I did at the weekend would notice - though the white socks did sort-of shout out. Mainly because you could see them because his trousers weren't on properly. Where I was sitting might also have had something to do with it. As I've already said - if you sit in a different seat you get a different view of the stage.

None of the 'wrong' things I saw in any way spoilt my experience - if anything they added to it as they made me aware of just how finely things are 'tuned'. e.g. Jessica catching the toast three times out of four. I'd be lucky to catch it once. Just how quick some of the costume changes are. And just how 'precise' each and every movement is. e.g. in one scene Diana/Susan is singing, moving from one side of the stage to the other, and every time Jay/Josh's head slowly moves as he watches her walk across. It might sound strange, but that movement of his head adds to the scene.
I am not intensely watching every single detail - it's just stuff I've noticed which adds other layers.
BionicBard
14-11-2016
Hiccups in live theatre are part of the fun - for the cast mostly, as the audience probably don't notice most of them because things move swiftly on. As Aliona said on ITT - it's not bad to go wrong, it's what you do about it. I love it that somebody said J's quick interception of an escaping space bopper saved it from ending up in the orchestra pit, and that he ad libbed to help the boy playing Billy when he got tangled up in his rucksack.

Jay made me laugh on ITT with his imitation of Aliona's 'keep smiling, they didn't notice!'

From what I can remember of the film, it was absolutely fine for kids old enough to appreciate the fun in it.
ahouch
14-11-2016
Hi All,

Here's another review of Big:

https://twitter.com/musicaltheatrer/...75428984520704

Plus a couple of pics from Ali at Celtic Manor:

https://twitter.com/alionavilani/sta...40780350504961

https://twitter.com/alionavilani/sta...40859882897408
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