Yay SD have signed a jobber.
A jobber who jobs to jobbers
A jobber who jobs to jobbers
World Wrestling Entertainment Discussion 42 (Spoilers)
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Not a bad show I suppose, could have done with more matches though instead of all the talking
Some matches had a bit of a rushed feeling, other than that not bad
6.5/10
Some matches had a bit of a rushed feeling, other than that not bad
6.5/10
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“I'm sure many would prefer a steady job to rocking the boat in current day WWE. Why be a mark for the belt?”
“I'm sure many would prefer a steady job to rocking the boat in current day WWE. Why be a mark for the belt?”
Isnt it better to be a multiple time world champion and a Hall of Famer than say a nobody who never gets any of that?
I do get what your saying though.
Id rather be a CM Punk than a Brooklyn Brawler.
Originally Posted by Lee_Smith2:
“If Hogan or The Ringmaster came into the WWE today they'd turn down Hulkamania on the grounds it puts him over too much. They'd refuse to change Austin's crap act, and then book Hogan/Piper and Ringmaster/Hart literally a dozen times on free TV. Not forgetting the Vince scripted Ringmaster just kicked your butt!
Simply put, the format of Raw in 2016 isn't keeping fans watching across 3 hours and probably isn't drawing in new viewers either on a long term basis.”
“If Hogan or The Ringmaster came into the WWE today they'd turn down Hulkamania on the grounds it puts him over too much. They'd refuse to change Austin's crap act, and then book Hogan/Piper and Ringmaster/Hart literally a dozen times on free TV. Not forgetting the Vince scripted Ringmaster just kicked your butt!
Simply put, the format of Raw in 2016 isn't keeping fans watching across 3 hours and probably isn't drawing in new viewers either on a long term basis.”
This is the problem today. Even a Sammartino today would never get a 7 year run with the World title and fans would end up moaning about a several year title run. People would just complain about him not putting anyone over.
Take the stone cold podcast for instance where Steve right at the end of the interview had a go at Dean Ambrose who then was the World Champion for not pushing the envolope.
Im sure alot of people were embarrassed doing it with the World Champ but this isnt 1998, and dean would get in a lot of shit same with AJ. WWE these days has too many sponsors and you cant go cussing on Live TV incase you offend them. Its taken WWE alot of years to get where they are and Steve seems to forget this.
Wrestlers can give ideas but if they just end up being shot down anyway there isnt alot you can do.
Or maybe it was Steve who had a problem Dean having fun with him and cutting a promo on his busted knee that seemed to touch a nerve with Austin.
If you have a gimmick that has never been done in WWE before and you know you can pull it off and it's something you completely believe in then I do think you can push the envelope a little bit, but Dean Ambrose is a reminder of an older Steve Austin, a Bryan Pillman type characte. It's like John Cena and The Miz, they're very similar to The Rock in the way they speak. I think if someone has something that really hasn't been seen or done they could maybe do it but it would need to be all or nothing, they would need to be willing to lose their job over it.
Most wont be willing to lose their job and WWE wont take any risks at all. I think Steve maybe doesn't realise this and he had his own chance to ask Vince McMahon on his podcast why and he never, he never pulled him up for anything.
It reminds me of Shawn Michaels telling Vince Russo he doesn't miss the WWE because what they do today isn't what he used to do, he used to be a pro wrestler in the pro wrestling business, that's not what it is today. I think Steve Austin is of that mindset also. It's unfair for them to really judge what happens today because when they were in their prime doing it they had so much freedom to do what they wanted and that just doesn't exist now. I have to wonder if it ever will again.
Most wont be willing to lose their job and WWE wont take any risks at all. I think Steve maybe doesn't realise this and he had his own chance to ask Vince McMahon on his podcast why and he never, he never pulled him up for anything.
It reminds me of Shawn Michaels telling Vince Russo he doesn't miss the WWE because what they do today isn't what he used to do, he used to be a pro wrestler in the pro wrestling business, that's not what it is today. I think Steve Austin is of that mindset also. It's unfair for them to really judge what happens today because when they were in their prime doing it they had so much freedom to do what they wanted and that just doesn't exist now. I have to wonder if it ever will again.
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“The reasons for their steady decline are so deep seated that there's very little they could do in the short term to turn things around immediately unless the next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan was to walk in the door tomorrow. And that ain't happening.”
“The reasons for their steady decline are so deep seated that there's very little they could do in the short term to turn things around immediately unless the next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan was to walk in the door tomorrow. And that ain't happening.”
The problem is that if the next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan walked through WWE's door tomorrow, they would be fired within a month for having a 'bad attitude' i.e. a personality.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Who have people got winning the first ever CWC?
I hope Zack wins it personally!”
“Who have people got winning the first ever CWC?
I hope Zack wins it personally!”
I want Zack to win it. If not, then Ibushi.
That rating should be a definite concern for them, regardless of anything else. From what I've read, NFL was down a bit, but on the positive Raw didn't drop as much throughout the show as the week before. Nevertheless, the rating for Raw since late 2013 has fallen off the cliff. Overall steady decline since 2001 - as could be expected - though complete bomb in last two years or so. 2.5 million viewers is so bad even I'm wondering where the absolute baseline is thesedays. TNA 2008 levels?
What's worse is the decline has continued as they've given away loads of PPV level matches (Reigns/Balor, Reigns/Owens, Owens/Zayn, the fatal 4 way etc). I wonder where the buck stops and Vince brings in somebody to shake things up I.E a Bischoff, Russo, Kreski etc. I heard Corgan was doing good down in TNA.
What's worse is the decline has continued as they've given away loads of PPV level matches (Reigns/Balor, Reigns/Owens, Owens/Zayn, the fatal 4 way etc). I wonder where the buck stops and Vince brings in somebody to shake things up I.E a Bischoff, Russo, Kreski etc. I heard Corgan was doing good down in TNA.
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“I'm sure many would prefer a steady job to rocking the boat in current day WWE. Why be a mark for the belt?”
“I'm sure many would prefer a steady job to rocking the boat in current day WWE. Why be a mark for the belt?”
Depends. By all accounts, unless you are a main event star in WWE, the pay isn't great and working conditions are poor - all those days on the road, away from family and friends, and all out of your own pocket.
All you have to do is look at the lower mid-carders from the Attitude Era. Scotty 2 Hotty is now a fireman (love the irony) and Val Venis has his own medical marijuana business. These guys were paid far more than WWE's mid-carders today (read Hardcore Holly's autobiography for a great insight into the life of a WWE mid-carder) and yet still didn't earn anywhere near enough money to set them up for life.
So "Why be a mark for the belt?" Because if you are working in WWE to set you and your family up with a decent life, then you need to break the main event. That's why. Jobbing will pay the bills for a few years - and then what?
Ratings against MNF openers
2010: 3.02
2011: 2.72
2012: 2.89
2013: 2.90
2014: 2.87
2015: 2.42
2016: 1.88
If those numbers don't cause them to panic then I don't know what will. And this is only the start of 4 months of the NFL. That's a steady year on year decline but look at last years, that is one big drop just in the last 12 months.
The interesting thing in all this for me is the USA Network, I know the get all the money from advertisers and that in turn pays for the WWE, I think it was said the WWE get paid $1 million alone just for the 3rd hour of Raw. The WWE is getting paid $100 million per year for Raw and Smackdown. It would be interesting to see if the USA Network/NBC are getting that money back and if they are in profit because if they are, it really might be down to them to force change, if they're happy with things and they're making that $100 million back they wont care, who knows how low that rating could go. I thought under 2.0 would definately be a game changer.
I can't fault WWE for trying to make money and Vince trying to make sure everything is ok for his family because he is 71 years old. I don't blame him for that but at what point do you stop hurting your own company? Regardless of how much money they are making that's what they're doing, they're hurting their own company, their own product, stifling their own creativity and the worrying thing for me is such a large part of that company relies on paying customers, it relies on the fans. The fans literally keep them in business, if those ratings start to affect live attendances they could be in trouble because it's like anything else in life, if someone pushes your buttons long enough or you get fed up and you walk away, chances are you're not going back. Once you've walked that's it and that's the worrying thing with the NFL, if they have over 500,000 people a week missing Raw and then in 4 months time those 500,000 realise they're not any worse off they might decide well, I think I'll miss Raw again, then they do it the next week and then they're not watching it at all. Now they're in the habit of not watching it live.
I think that is the issue with many many wrestling fans. Many don't want to step away even for a week. They've done it for so long, for so many years and they're so used to it that they don't want to chance missing it for a week or two and I think for many that do, they soon realise they can miss a month of WWE and they've missed nothing.
I'd love to know what the real numbers are and at what point does either the WWE panic or does USA Network step in and have a word.
2010: 3.02
2011: 2.72
2012: 2.89
2013: 2.90
2014: 2.87
2015: 2.42
2016: 1.88
If those numbers don't cause them to panic then I don't know what will. And this is only the start of 4 months of the NFL. That's a steady year on year decline but look at last years, that is one big drop just in the last 12 months.
The interesting thing in all this for me is the USA Network, I know the get all the money from advertisers and that in turn pays for the WWE, I think it was said the WWE get paid $1 million alone just for the 3rd hour of Raw. The WWE is getting paid $100 million per year for Raw and Smackdown. It would be interesting to see if the USA Network/NBC are getting that money back and if they are in profit because if they are, it really might be down to them to force change, if they're happy with things and they're making that $100 million back they wont care, who knows how low that rating could go. I thought under 2.0 would definately be a game changer.
I can't fault WWE for trying to make money and Vince trying to make sure everything is ok for his family because he is 71 years old. I don't blame him for that but at what point do you stop hurting your own company? Regardless of how much money they are making that's what they're doing, they're hurting their own company, their own product, stifling their own creativity and the worrying thing for me is such a large part of that company relies on paying customers, it relies on the fans. The fans literally keep them in business, if those ratings start to affect live attendances they could be in trouble because it's like anything else in life, if someone pushes your buttons long enough or you get fed up and you walk away, chances are you're not going back. Once you've walked that's it and that's the worrying thing with the NFL, if they have over 500,000 people a week missing Raw and then in 4 months time those 500,000 realise they're not any worse off they might decide well, I think I'll miss Raw again, then they do it the next week and then they're not watching it at all. Now they're in the habit of not watching it live.
I think that is the issue with many many wrestling fans. Many don't want to step away even for a week. They've done it for so long, for so many years and they're so used to it that they don't want to chance missing it for a week or two and I think for many that do, they soon realise they can miss a month of WWE and they've missed nothing.
I'd love to know what the real numbers are and at what point does either the WWE panic or does USA Network step in and have a word.
WWE issued another poll asking how Mick Foley should punish Seth Rollins for interfering in the RAW main event this week - remove him from the WWE Universal Title match at Clash of Champions, fine him, suspend him, force him to give a public apology or no long-term punishment at all.
As of this writing, 52% believe he should be removed from Clash of Champions while 25% believe no punishment is necessary. 10% believe he should be forced to apologize.
As of this writing, 52% believe he should be removed from Clash of Champions while 25% believe no punishment is necessary. 10% believe he should be forced to apologize.
Originally Posted by Harris_07:
“Haha!
I was expecting SmackDown Live's very own Heath Slater.
They can save that for next year.
”
“Haha!
I was expecting SmackDown Live's very own Heath Slater.
They can save that for next year.
”
I was expecting Heath Slaters kids to be on the cover
.
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“Loving the live CWC.
But thought both Semi Finals matches would go the other way.”
“Loving the live CWC.
But thought both Semi Finals matches would go the other way.”
ZSJ was apparently openly telling people he doesn't want to go to WWE at the moment, saying there are still things he'd like to do elsewhere in wrestling.
Yes.
I was just about to post (Had to delete it) this should be for the CW Championship.
On the title it actully looks pretty good.
I was just about to post (Had to delete it) this should be for the CW Championship.
On the title it actully looks pretty good.
The CWC final produced some great matches (as did the whole tournament). The Cruiserweight title looks good. I thought we'd get a Ibushi/ZSJ final. Nice surprise to see TJP win.
I just hope that the Cruiserweight division gets a good showing on Raw.
Also, the backstage and post-match interviewers are gorgeous!
I just hope that the Cruiserweight division gets a good showing on Raw.
Also, the backstage and post-match interviewers are gorgeous!
Originally Posted by Lee_Smith2:
“That rating should be a definite concern for them, regardless of anything else. From what I've read, NFL was down a bit, but on the positive Raw didn't drop as much throughout the show as the week before. Nevertheless, the rating for Raw since late 2013 has fallen off the cliff. Overall steady decline since 2001 - as could be expected - though complete bomb in last two years or so. 2.5 million viewers is so bad even I'm wondering where the absolute baseline is thesedays. TNA 2008 levels?
What's worse is the decline has continued as they've given away loads of PPV level matches (Reigns/Balor, Reigns/Owens, Owens/Zayn, the fatal 4 way etc). I wonder where the buck stops and Vince brings in somebody to shake things up I.E a Bischoff, Russo, Kreski etc. I heard Corgan was doing good down in TNA.”
“That rating should be a definite concern for them, regardless of anything else. From what I've read, NFL was down a bit, but on the positive Raw didn't drop as much throughout the show as the week before. Nevertheless, the rating for Raw since late 2013 has fallen off the cliff. Overall steady decline since 2001 - as could be expected - though complete bomb in last two years or so. 2.5 million viewers is so bad even I'm wondering where the absolute baseline is thesedays. TNA 2008 levels?
What's worse is the decline has continued as they've given away loads of PPV level matches (Reigns/Balor, Reigns/Owens, Owens/Zayn, the fatal 4 way etc). I wonder where the buck stops and Vince brings in somebody to shake things up I.E a Bischoff, Russo, Kreski etc. I heard Corgan was doing good down in TNA.”
People on this forum used to have a real go at me when I said that wrestling generally is in decline.
Now, TNA has become Ring of Honour, and WWE is in the process of becoming TNA. If that isn't wrestling in decline, I don't know what is!
Niche level ratings? Check. PPV matches given away on free TV? Check. No real PPVs anymore? Check (the network doesn't count. Nobody in their right mind would pay $60 for a WWE PPV nowadays). Crowds dimmed out to avoid showing empty seats? Check. Smackdown is beginning to look very like TNA in 2013 when they toured Impact.
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