Apart from Ian Botham I couldn't name a Cricketer ever.

Last time I watched a Cricket Match was about 27 years ago teachers vs students at my school even then I read a book more than watched it.

Reading this stuff about Miz and Bryan makes me wonder if they are going down the route of having Miz quit when his contract comes up and then show up on raw saying that he has signed with raw. Making it look like they are separate entities.

They have sort of done that already with Jack Swagger.

Last Raw they said his contract was about to expire then he showed up on SD saying he had just signed with them.

I've read that the only WWE wrestler thats a household name in the states is Cena.

Others well known tend to be from the attitude era and people watching a decade ago.

You can't really compare ratings from a series to raw. 60 minutes is easier than 3 hours to find time and you never really fall behind on raw, compared to a series. Even vince has said 90 minutes is the perfect show length for wrestling.

I think wrestling is more popular than live ratings, but people are choosing to watch the bits they want online later.

Shorter show and storylines that leave people wanting to find out what happens next would fix alot of the current issues.

Posted this before but-

At the point the no compete clause in the WCW sale contract was up, Ted Turner asked former owner of Georgia Championship Wrestling, Jim Barnett, to look into how feasible it was to start again and was told-

1. $50 million in start up costs for a WWE sized company
2. WWE has all the stars under contract so we'd have to create new stars out of complete unknowns.
3. TNT and TBS have no interest in showing wrestling.

The last one is the killer. It's impossible to do without a good tv deal, and Turner wouldn't have been able to convince channels named after him to show wrestling.

I may be wrong but I personally feel, wrestling as we know it right now (3 hour live Raw, 2 hour live SD and all the other shows they produce) will be gone within the next 10 years. The product as it is right now (bar the network) is just not good enough and is complete over kill in terms of live tv content.

If it was good exciting live tv, then fair enough. Yet a good 80% of it is very boring and just repeating itself week after week, month after month..ect ect.

The brand spilt was suppose to be a huge new era and a bright new start, but lets be honest, nothing has changed, well SD is a bit better, but Raw is still boring, 99% of storylines are lame and people just don't see wrestling as a must watch show anymore.

Just look at Raw right now, with Triple H coming back and interfering to help Owens win the belt, we are no doubt going to get The Authority story line times 100 again. Hardly exciting stuff.

You're probably right about the hours of WWE TV. I thought the brand split would be the perfect opportunity for Raw to go down to two hours. Hopefully the cruiaerweight division will improve things, but I highly doubt they're going to give an hour for the Cruiserweight division.

It's classic WWE to over do things and in this case give away too much too soon. Now they struggle to fill the time and give us pointless segments and matches which don't develop characters or storylines. They don't create the need to see anything. Instead, they over do it and make us sick of it. Just look at Lesnar's matches as an example.

I'd love to see Raw and SD go to an hour. Sure, we wouldn't see our favourite superstars each week but it'd create the desire of wanting to see them. Plus, every segment would matter and develop things (I hope). Very unlikely to happen.

As for HHH and Owens, when HHH finally explains his actions, I'd like to see Owens turn on him straight away. KO could simply say that he didn't ask for HHH's help and he doesn't need it. Then we could get a triple threat title match between KO, HHH and Rollins. But, again, unlikely to happen.

You need to compare them sargeant. Many people, including Triple H himself said people watch on their tablets and phones now and ratings aren't what they used to be.


Clearly there are many shows on TV which people don't want to watch on their tablet or phone. They want to sit on their couch and watch it on their TV. The point is if a show is GOOD, people will watch it on TV, I'm not saying the people watching on DVR or Youtube are somehow less of a fan than someone sat on their couch but clearly one person can't miss it and the other doesn't mind waiting till the next day.

And while that wont make any difference to any of us. It means a lot to the people that are paying WWE money to show their programs. That's how they make that money back. They make that money back by charging advertisers money to advertise during the advert break. If less people are watching the show LIVE or it's FIRST RUN then they can't charge as much money but the more people that watch it LIVE or the FIRST RUN they can then charge more money and make that money back quicker and make a profit.

That's why people like me always ask what the number is that will cause change. Raw got a 1.88 in America this week. They were doing almost a million more viewers when they signed that 5 year deal with the USA Network for $100 million a year and it's set to increase again in January. The USA Network has to make that $100 million back and that's why the only number that matters to them is the LIVE number, the DVR numbers don't matter because people fast forward the adverts, they don't watch them. They wont care about WWE's Network numbers or Youtube numbers, they don't get a penny from them either. That's why it's in their best interests to get as many people watching Raw live on TV as possible. That's why when the ratings keep getting lower I keep saying I wonder when things will change, I wonder when someone is gonna step in cause change is needed and clearly WWE don't care about it. They don't. As long as the money is rolling in they wont care. I'm not saying that's wrong either but, people want to enjoy wrestling again. People want to sit and look forward to it again and have characters they like and stories they want to follow and have cliffhangers and stories that challenge them and have outcomes they can't predict. People want that.

You can't keep saying DVR ratings don't matter. You really can't.

Nielson themselves said, and this was in 2009, "C3 is a measure of the commercials watched both live and three days DVR playback and is the metric under which much of primetime advertising is bought and sold."

CBS President Les Moonves called overnight ratings "worthless" almost 2 years ago.

FOX executives Dana Walden and Gary Newman put out a statement almost a year ago saying "and nothing could be more antiquated than a decades old measurement that reflects only a portion of our audience". FOX went on to stop releasing overnight ratings for their programming.

It's been reported countless times, most advertisement sales now are done on a Live +3 or Live +7 basis.

FX stopped distributing, commenting on or analysing overnights in July 2014, HBO followed suit in December 2014. USA Network itself followed in November 2015. AMC are another network who have dismissed overnights. These cable networks all say the overnights are increasingly irrelevant and now wait until Live+3, as a minimum, are available.

We can talk about WWE's falling ratings but you can't keep saying that live numbers are all that matters and that DVR doesn't because the networks and advert buyers in America are saying (and buying) differently.

Very well put and said and put, overnight ratings these days in this era of modern TV consumption, are just an outdated model, that does not give a true representation of how a show is doing.

To get a true idea, you need to look at multiple sources of data, rather than just the one like on the old days.

So for WWE, you need to learn how k at Network subscriber numbers, YouTube views, and subscriptions, twitter followers, and a whole host of other things before you can begin to judge if they are a succes or not.

Just looking at ratings and saying, oh it is 1.88, or 10.88 is totally meaningless, and doesn't mean anything to anyone these days, so I don't see why they are even brought up or discussed, as they do not give be a true representation of a shows following.

Most people pick and choose when and where they watch a show, the era of watching a show when the TV companies tell you to, is either at an end, or is very shortly coming to a close.

Look at how successful Netflix has become for example, there you can watch whole series whenever and wherever you want, there are no schedules there, and that is how more and more shows will be like I think.

There really is no point to actually having a TV schedule these days, shows should be available as soon as they are filmed and "in the can" so to speak, what is the point in holding them back?
Just do as Netflix does and put a whole series out all at once, rather than drip feeding the audience, and making them wait once a week to watch a show, that is such an outdated model.

I see Bubba Ray delivered a better promo the other night at a House of Hardcore event than he did in the all time he was back at the WWE. Again showing that the creative team are not letting the talent...well use their talent!

If ratings didn't matter, they wouldn't measure them. They are the ONLY way to measure how many people are watching on television.

Of course people can watch the show in other ways but as far as the USA Network and Sky Sports are concerned, they don't make money from Youtube or the WWE Network, only WWE does. So WWE might not care if they're making money on Youtube and Hulu and that balances the number from the TV audience but what about the TV channels? They want people watching their channel, not on Youtube or Hulu.

The actual number doesn't matter to us fans but it matters to them, the more people watching the show on TV means the more money they can charge advertisers. The higher that rating is the more money they can make, it doesn't make any difference to WWE, they'll get what they agreed to in their contracts which is why I think WWE don't care. They wont care till 2019.

And with that being said I think you're right and TV is changing and people's habits are changing but the way it is just now, the TV ratings still mean something until they can find a way of finding a way of finding out the true number of people watching a show at any one time. The WWE is very close to what TNA were pulling at their best, TNA's highest rating for a full show was a 1.45 and they were doing 1.4s pretty often before that. WWE Raw is very close to that now. I think in 2019 will be the end of WWE wrestling on prime time TV in America and it will have had a good run. That's a good 25 plus years of Raw and prior to that the episodes of Saturday Night's Main Event.


I think in 2019 not only will USA drastically cut the money they offer to WWE but they will say no more wrestling on Monday nights and put it on earlier which is what I've said for a long time. Raw should be on at 4pm in the afternoon, not finishing at 11pm at night, 11pm at night should be adult programming not wrestling aimed at families. I don't think Smackdown will be renewed at all and I think at that point in 2019, if internet connections are decent everywhere, if the majority of people have SMART TVs in their home or they have Amazon Firesticks or Roku Sticks, the WWE will just say that's it, if you want to watch our wrestling you have to pay for our Network and then whoever wants to watch it has to pay $10/£10. They will put the lot on the Network and that's it. No more WWE on TV in America.


I don't think it just applies to WWE. I think by the time the year 2019 gets here a LOT will have changed in society. I'm surprised wrestling has lasted this long, it's just plodding along whereas other shows really do make the effort, they make the effort to keep their shows on the air. Wrestling really does seem like something that just stays on TV regardless of the quality.

Hi has anyone seen the new harcore DVD ?

What about the guy freddie Flintoff whos always on the jacomo ads?

TBS were complete idiots for snubbing the wrestling business. I really hate how the media looks down at wrestling.

.A loving tribute to Angie Bautista, and all women who have struggled with Cancer in one form or another. 6-time World Champion Wrestler Dave Batista and friend Jimmy Noonan, Dave's Former Director of Security at WWE, made this labor of love over a 2 year period to honor Angie, his ex-wife and Cancer Survivor! As Dave say's in the video, "Come on, people, LET"S BEAT THE HELL OUT OF CANCER!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHAiy_mtIwU

Just a quick question, who said ratings don't matter?

Or three were burned by it and didn't want it any more?

Never heard of Freddie Flintoff or Jacomo.

I tend not to watch or pay attention to ads.

No one, but when people mention recording and DVR and Youtube and any other way to watch a show, they try and take the attention off of the live numbers. The live number is what people pay attention to. TV channels pay for programming, they don't care about people watching on their tablets because they don't make money from that.

The WWE is bleeding viewers and they make no effort to stop it so that's people like me, when we see a 1.88 rating, not far off from TNA's highest 1.45 rating, we ask when something will be done. How low will it drop before something is done, that's all. It's just a talking point

Give it a break already, the live overnight numbers are simply an irreverent thing these days, whatever numbers you or anyone else can come up with just do not matter, as they do not take into account modern day viewing habits.

People simply do not tend to stick by schedules created artificially by TV companies any longer, they like the flexibility of watching when they want, and where they want, and on what device.

It's not take the attention off the live numbers, I'm more than happy to discuss the live ratings.

My point is you keep saying that DVR numbers don't matter when the President of CBS, two heads of FOX alongside cable networks AMC, HBO, USA and FX all say the complete opposite.

You've just done it again in that quote. I've given six examples of heads of networks in the US that say the complete opposite to "The live number is what people pay attention to". They don't even look at overnight ratings, including WWE's home USA Network.

Most advertising blocks sold in America are sold on a minimum of Live +3 basis, some Live +7. It's not true that overnights are what people look at, it really isn't true.

If it's a talking point, engage with the point instead of reading what people write and choosing to ignore it to push your own agenda.

And the advertisers wont mind? They wont say wait a minute, didn't WWE used to get 4 million? DIdnt they get about 3 million last year.........now their in the 2s and you want us to pay how much? How much did you say you want us to pay for our adverts?


Maybe that is how it is now. Maybe advertisers don't mind people fast forwarding their ads now. I should also mention that many shows have product placement. Colony was a USA Network show, they were never done showing you computers and Iphones and cars and brands of foods. Scream The TV Series and Scream Queens was the same. Full of product placement.


That sort of explains why things are the way they are then. Obviously it doesn't matter if their ratings are below a 2.0 every week.

You're doing it again. You're responding to a point I haven't made. At no point did I say advertisers don't mind falling ratings. Which is why it's impossible to have a discussion with you, you're hellbent on putting across what you want to say rather than how most people here discuss which is to respond to what somebody actually said.

I have responded to you. There is a reason why websites don't make a big deal about DVR numbers, there's a reason why the only rating people talk about not just for WWE but any TV show is the first run/live number.

I'm not saying the DVR numbers don't mean anything but I find it hard to believe that they mean anything to advertisers because the only people that are gonna see their adverts is the first run/live audience. Now i'm sure there are those out there with enough time on their hands that will record something and sit through the adverts but they will be in the minority.