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Is chart indie dead?


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Old 05-06-2016, 22:56
Noxy
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The British music charts now are either American or Americanised dance/pop/r 'n' b; it is absolutely wall-to-wall. Apart from the odd random rock single by Disturbed, Stone Roses, Jake Bugg etc. indie as a genre seems to have corpsed. Has it, and will it ever reinvent itself and be successful again?
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Old 05-06-2016, 23:49
Adamsk
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The British music charts now are either American or Americanised dance/pop/r 'n' b; it is absolutely wall-to-wall. Apart from the odd random rock single by Disturbed, Stone Roses, Jake Bugg etc. indie as a genre seems to have corpsed. Has it, and will it ever reinvent itself and be successful again?
I think it is safe too say Indie music is dead and has been for sometime.When I think of indie I think of the 80's the first wave of indie.And there was the second wave and the third that was the end.Will it reinvent itself it hard too say indie Wolf Alice is pants same with the Vaccines and Biffy it kind of dull as dish water.
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Old 06-06-2016, 00:07
DRAGON LANCE
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I wouldn't say it couldn't ever rise and live again and its due a comeback... but the last few years haven't been exactly healthy for the movement have they? Simple brutal truth is most of the current talent isn't good enough and is a pale imitation of what went before. When its ageing bands still making the best indie it’s struggle to attract young people who would buy the songs to make them chart hits. Add to that:

1) Most of the big indie labels of the past got bought out and then dissolved when they became unprofitable by the majors years ago-so you don't have the network anymore to nurture new bands.

2) There isn't as much money in the business anymore so aspiring bands have to pay for their own recording costs and marketing. This has priced most working class bands out of the industry. This is what I find really sad- there might be great talent out there and its just getting throttled because they can't pay the bills.

3) Indie has always been snobbish. That snobbishness is now killing the movement. Everything, including indie itself, is always dreadful according to indie fans. If you were a 12 year old what would you seriously want to buy into? The fun pop world that promotes how brilliant super cool fab Bieber, Drake, Taylor Swift, Beyonce are or a miserable negative indie world where everything is "sh*te" full of boring miserable old farts moaning, moaning, moaning 24/7 on the Guardian website?

4) You look at the few Indie bands/acts that are seen as cred by all the sneering Guardian reader types and just think.... really? Sleaford Mods perfect example, here's Noel Gallagher's opinion on them...which I can't help agree with :

hhttp://www.nme.com/news/noel-gallagher/82244ttp://

"They're like ****ing Brown Bottle in Viz," he said. "There's no joy in that, is there? It's just two guys, one clearly mentally ill, who's just shouting like Brown Bottle about ****ing cider and ****ing shit chicken. Yeah, that would've been fun wouldn't it, at Knebworth. 'Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and while we're all here', while all the people at the back are on acid and E, 'round of applause for the miners, wahey'. **** off."
5) The mainstream media and broadcasting never liked rock or indie anyway as it was too dangerous for their conservative world. Commercial radio never wanted to play indie as their advertisers didn't like it. Even Radio 1 clearly no longer gives a toss. The only indie acts they ever seem to play are Muse, The Foo Fighters, Artic Monkeys and whoever the NME tell you to like this week to meet their tick box indie quota requirement rather than through any passion for the music.

The evening slots on Radio 1 used to be indie time. Now it’s mostly all been shoved off on Radio 6 for nobody to listen to. I suspect most of the current Radio 1 DJ's hate having to play anything with a guitar in it. I believe Nick Gwimmyshaw is on record as saying he can't stand rock.

Look at the state of their "yearly introducing new talent award" for gods sake. Are their winners such as Beige-core specialists James Bay and former child eurovision entry Jack Garrett really the best talent that can be found in this country???

6) Including streaming as a means of making up the charts was supposed to open the doors for a more varied chart. In reality its been the exact reverse with the likes of Ed Sheeran and Justin Beiber enjoying ridiculous chart runs that go on forever as kids play there songs on loops everyday.
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Old 06-06-2016, 00:15
barbeler
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Instead of trying to be the new Jesus & Mary Chain or Gang Of Four, most of the young indie bands are trying to be the new Railway Children or Deacon Blue. It's nearly all so wet and dreary.
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Old 06-06-2016, 00:33
Noxy
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I wouldn't say it couldn't ever rise and live again and its due a comeback... but the last few years haven't been exactly healthy for the movement have they? Simple brutal truth is most of the current talent isn't good enough and is a pale imitation of what went before. When its ageing bands still making the best indie it’s struggle to attract young people who would buy the songs to make them chart hits. Add to that:

1) Most of the big indie labels of the past got bought out and then dissolved when they became unprofitable by the majors years ago-so you don't have the network anymore to nurture new bands.

2) There isn't as much money in the business anymore so aspiring bands have to pay for their own recording costs and marketing. This has priced most working class bands out of the industry. This is what I find really sad- there might be great talent out there and its just getting throttled because they can't pay the bills.

3) Indie has always been snobbish. That snobbishness is now killing the movement. Everything, including indie itself, is always dreadful according to indie fans. If you were a 12 year old what would you seriously want to buy into? The fun pop world that promotes how brilliant super cool fab Bieber, Drake, Taylor Swift, Beyonce are or a miserable negative indie world where everything is "sh*te" full of boring miserable old farts moaning, moaning, moaning 24/7 on the Guardian website?

4) You look at the few Indie bands/acts that are seen as cred by all the sneering Guardian reader types and just think.... really? Sleaford Mods perfect example, here's Noel Gallagher's opinion on them...which I can't help agree with :

hhttp://www.nme.com/news/noel-gallagher/82244ttp://



5) The mainstream media and broadcasting never liked rock or indie anyway as it was too dangerous for their conservative world. Commercial radio never wanted to play indie as their advertisers didn't like it. Even Radio 1 clearly no longer gives a toss. The only indie acts they ever seem to play are Muse, The Foo Fighters, Artic Monkeys and whoever the NME tell you to like this week to meet their tick box indie quota requirement rather than through any passion for the music.

The evening slots on Radio 1 used to be indie time. Now it’s mostly all been shoved off on Radio 6 for nobody to listen to. I suspect most of the current Radio 1 DJ's hate having to play anything with a guitar in it. I believe Nick Gwimmyshaw is on record as saying he can't stand rock.

Look at the state of their "yearly introducing new talent award" for gods sake. Are their winners such as Beige-core specialists James Bay and former child eurovision entry Jack Garrett really the best talent that can be found in this country???

6) Including streaming as a means of making up the charts was supposed to open the doors for a more varied chart. In reality its been the exact reverse with the likes of Ed Sheeran and Justin Beiber enjoying ridiculous chart runs that go on forever as kids play there songs on loops everyday.
Amazing post. PS I'm a Guardian reader
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:36
dodrade
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Strictly speaking isn't Adele an indie artist?
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:40
Noxy
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Strictly speaking isn't Adele an indie artist?
Yeah, strictly speaking. But then Coldplay are indie strictly speaking and who even knows what they are anymore!
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:07
Thorney
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For all the reasons said above singles chart indie is dead I agree but just this week Catfish & The bottlemen are number one in the album chart with more 30000 sales and no hit singles. Bands put more emphasis into their albums now and most of their single sales go on preorders which are not chart eligible. Also they tend to release a few tracks before the album so one song doesnt dominate so the streaming is spread thin so no hit single.

Although I think many of these tactics are self fulfilling as they knew they wouldnt go top 40 anyway.

PS Biffy are rock and their last 2 singles are anything but dull.
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:56
mgvsmith
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Strictly speaking isn't Adele an indie artist?
I think posters are confusing being on an indie label with being an 'indie' artist. The idea of the independent label predates the 'indie' genre of music....if there is such a thing as an indie genre?

A lot of the artists getting a mention here would more likely fit into a genre like Alt Rock or maybe, Post Rock?

Instead of trying to be the new Jesus & Mary Chain or Gang Of Four, most of the young indie bands are trying to be the new Railway Children or Deacon Blue. It's nearly all so wet and dreary.
Yeah, maybe it would be better if youngsters would listen to the Mary Chain or Gang of Four and channel their anger with the system into some alternative music. But Deacon Blue channelled some of that too, it just came out as more melodic and mor. I like 'Raintown'.

I think that pop music and even alternative music is populated with kids who are broadly middle class, who are enthralled with technology and the ability to write music and songs that will sound cool and will sell. May it is the spirit of the age? Maybe it was always like that?

I think we are missing 'visionaries like Tony H Wilson, Alan McGee and our own Terri Hooley, who had the courage to create a scene aound their indie labels and their mission to make music better in some way.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:28
Thorney
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I think it has always been like that but the weirdos, underdogs, scenesters and unusual have always managed to infiltrate the mainstream and sometimes take over, we are now in a phase where the different can not do this anymore.

Ok I wait for the old if great music comes then it won't be ignored comment but , I just don't think 'Field Of Dreams' thinking applies anymore sadly.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:37
Noxy
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I do think counting streaming in the charts is a problem. Only kids and young adults probably stream, effectively ruling out music for anyone over 30 ever entering the singles chart again. It's very wrong.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:27
thewaywardbus
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The original question I believe was whether chart indie was dead, not all indie, which is what a lot of people seem to be taking about in this thread.

The truth is it has never been easier to get new music out independently, either via self publishing (DIY) or an indie record label on sites like Bandcamp.

True it has gone back underground, but is that really such a bad thing for a genre of music which was never really created to be mainstream or popular?

Indie is not dead, it had just gone back to it's roots
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:42
barbeler
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I do think counting streaming in the charts is a problem. Only kids and young adults probably stream, effectively ruling out music for anyone over 30 ever entering the singles chart again. It's very wrong.
But only kids are bothered about whether 'singles' are in the Top 30.
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Old 06-06-2016, 16:13
Inkblot
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I do think counting streaming in the charts is a problem. Only kids and young adults probably stream, effectively ruling out music for anyone over 30 ever entering the singles chart again. It's very wrong.
Haven't studies (eg this one) shown that as people get older, their taste in music tends to move away from pop to less mainstream music? So the charts will never reflect the diversity of music people like as they get older because by definition the most popular music will always be in the charts. I don't know if there is any data on the use of streaming by age groups but I would expect it to follow the same pattern: younger people streaming current pop, older people streaming older pop and non-mainstream new music.
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Old 06-06-2016, 17:16
thewaywardbus
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Haven't studies (eg this one) shown that as people get older, their taste in music tends to move away from pop to less mainstream music? So the charts will never reflect the diversity of music people like as they get older because by definition the most popular music will always be in the charts. I don't know if there is any data on the use of streaming by age groups but I would expect it to follow the same pattern: younger people streaming current pop, older people streaming older pop and non-mainstream new music.
I think another issue is that as people get older they tend to have less spare time in order to stream anything at all, with families and jobs to contend with. As people get closer to retirement of course spare time will increase again, however people of this age will currently not be as confident about using streaming technology. Logically this may even itself out as the age span of people streaming naturally increases. Although by then technology could have completely changed!

I do think we may be moving away from the main topic of discussion however, and it wont belong people start complaining that either young people also have a diverse taste in music or that older people can like chart pop music too!
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Old 06-06-2016, 17:26
Inkblot
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I do think we may be moving away from the main topic of discussion however, and it wont belong people start complaining that either young people also have a diverse taste in music or that older people can like chart pop music too!
Well if you think about it, people who were buying independently released music in the late 70s (eg labels like Factory, Rough Trade, Stiff etc) will be around 60 now (like me!) and probably still buying and streaming independent music today, just from different sources.
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Old 06-06-2016, 20:05
montyburns56
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Instead of trying to be the new Jesus & Mary Chain or Gang Of Four, most of the young indie bands are trying to be the new Railway Children or Deacon Blue. It's nearly all so wet and dreary.
It's funny 'cos it's true!
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Old 06-06-2016, 20:36
Tejas
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For all the reasons said above singles chart indie is dead I agree but just this week Catfish & The bottlemen are number one in the album chart with more 30000 sales and no hit singles. Bands put more emphasis into their albums now and most of their single sales go on preorders which are not chart eligible. Also they tend to release a few tracks before the album so one song doesnt dominate so the streaming is spread thin so no hit single.

Although I think many of these tactics are self fulfilling as they knew they wouldnt go top 40 anyway.

PS Biffy are rock and their last 2 singles are anything but dull.
This is pretty much spot on. You can't really use the singles chart to determine how 'big' guitar acts are, the Catfish example is not that uncommon. Look at Royal Blood - a huge album but no top 40 hits at all.

Its hard to imagine acts like The Killers, Kaiser Chiefs and Franz Ferdinand churning out decent charting hits like they did a decade ago now. I'd say the only guitar bands still having hits are Arctic Monkeys and Coldplay, and the latter tend to release very poppy stuff as singles.
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Old 07-06-2016, 22:04
vauxhall1964
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Indie is not dead, it had just gone back to it's roots
People said that about punk in the 80s and jazz in the 70s

in other words, the genre is dead. And now it's indie rock's turn. All things must pass.
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Old 07-06-2016, 22:17
vauxhall1964
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But only kids are bothered about whether 'singles' are in the Top 30.
really? I'm sure record labels and all but the snobbiest of artists would love to have a huge hit. Where would Queen, U2, Springsteen, Chic, Bowie, Oasis, Blur, REM, Kate Bush, New Order, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys and Prince have been without their career defining hits? Who'd still be buying tickets to their gigs or buying their 'best of's and tuning into all those oldies stations to hear their music without those hits that everyone recognises decades later? When Bowie died it was his greatest hits that sold the best, ditto Prince, not their studio albums.

If it's true that 'important' acts of today no longer have or need hits then all I can say is that the imprint they leave on our culture is going to be a shadow of what the great acts of the past left. In short, far fewer people are going to be in the slightest bit bothered about them. And what act wants that?
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:38
DRAGON LANCE
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just this week Catfish & The bottlemen are number one in the album chart with more 30000 sales and no hit singles.

.
Well whatever may be the state of top 40 single chart indie it is good to see bands like them scoring hits in the album charts and flying the flag for young lads in skinny jeans! Nice one.
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:54
barbeler
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really? I'm sure record labels and all but the snobbiest of artists would love to have a huge hit. Where would Queen, U2, Springsteen, Chic, Bowie, Oasis, Blur, REM, Kate Bush, New Order, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys and Prince have been without their career defining hits?
You're missing the point. Every one of those artists mentioned had their hits back in the days of TOTP and when singles still meant something. There was even an NME Indie chart that was quite influential. Singles died along with the demise of NME and TOTP, without which they are now meaningless.
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