Say what you like, but Germany's record speaks for itself.

What's more pitiful is when pundits keep bringing up 1966.

I know how impressive their record is but I would rather the pundits call what's in front of them rather than hyping up a decent but not great performance based on what the country has done in the past.

Hopefully with Carlo Ancelotti as manager he can get back to being a great defender

I have great hopes for Ancelotti at Bayern! For me, he's the best club manager there is.

But quite a few of the Germans play better for Germany than for their clubs (the opposite to England players)

Agree. The best you could say about that was it was an ominous performance, because that was them playing ok at best. But big improvements will be needed..... and knowing Germany probably will happen.

Two things really stood out for me tonight. Firstly how much the german national side look like a club side, their interchanging of positions and the understanding between players was immense. Presumably because the national side is given greater importance in Germany? (a bit like Eng cricket and Rugby union?) And secondly how little pace and lack of a real quality striker hindered them, far too many of their 18 attempts were speculative or from outside the box. Also how unfit does Schweinsteiger look, ive never seen him look so solid in build/frame (or wide)

Could see signs in the England side that they play like a club side especially with the amount of Tottenham players that are in the team

Schweinsteiger looked like he could barely move when he was running down the touchline to celebrate his goal!

Agree with your point about the lack of striker. It was hard for them to find an outlet through the middle for their attacks, which I think explains why they were so content to just keep possession instead. A poacher like Klose at his peak would score loads in this side though. I think their greater understanding and slick play comes from a couple of things. Firstly, their midfield is made of up of very silky, skilful players with great technique. It's their natural game to play that way. And secondly, they're build on the foundations of a great side that's been constructed since 2010 or so. Some of the more experienced players; Lahm, Mertesacker, Klose, have retired from international football but that core of Gotze, Ozil, Muller, Krose and Khedira dominate the middle of the park.

The players that are newer into the England set up need proper time to gel and find that level of understanding.

The national team is MOST important to Germany.
Most people outside of Munich hate Bayern and aren't at all happy about having a german "super club", but the national team is a source of pride. And the manager plays an enormous role. The fact that Low is the best national manager always shows. For instance, he would never get his best striker (if he had one) to take corners Just saying...

Without a good manager England will NEVER play as silky as Germany. Never. And individually, English players don't have the German technique.

The German midfield is awesome but they really need an out and out striker at times. I would like to have seen Gomez.

I'm unconvinced by this Low is the bestest of the bestest best manager ever stuff. He's had a squad of extraordinarily talented players throughout his time as manager, with plenty of fresh ones in each tournaments and, outside of their World Cup victory, the team has lost a lot of big games. If that incredibly tight game against Argentina swung the other way, he his side would be labelled as chokers. This is not to say that he isn't a good manager or anything but he's too untested outside of this role for me to think that he's really this all time great. What makes him better than Del Bosque?

You get three "red button" choices.
1, Usual incessant rabbit.
2, More incessant rabbit, (radio 5 commentary)
3, No rabbit.

As you've got all the spectator noise, with no commentary, it's more like actually being at a match, but with the added benefit of replays.

Lol I can't remember exactly, but has Low ever taken Germany lower than a semifinal/final in any major tournament since he became involved in the national side? Just because he "only" won one World Cup () doesn't make his record questionable. How many golden generations of English players (or foreign teams) have been mismanaged and got nowhere?! Simply having good players doesn't mean anything if you don't have a manager who knows exactly what he is doing. And by the way Argentina were a very strong team and the game understandably tight, but Low's substitutions (plus Ozil and Schweinsteiger) made the difference.

Del Bosque is also obviously a very good manager and up there with Low (although he's getting too old and going a bit senile now judging by his team selection).

No they won't. What makes you think they can't beat Poland? They knew if they got anything against Germany it would be a bonus and their target is to win their 2 other games. Ukraine v Poland is also a derby match, so anything could happen.

May be just me but I thought this the most enjoyable and attacking match so far.

Looking forward to the next one....

I never said I didn't think Ukraine could beat Poland.

But if I was the Ukraine manager watching Poland and Northern Ireland yesterday, I'd definitely think that the latter were the easier team to beat because as dogged as their defence was, they still made the mistake which cost the goal - and that was against a team who mounted slow-tempo attacks, so how will the Northern Ireland defenders deal with the kind of quick counter-attacking we saw from the Ukrainians at the end of last night's first half?

And, as I mention, a substantial win against Northern Ireland may mean that Ukraine go into that final match not needing a win and even being able to qualify with a defeat.