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The players and fans showing the Euros is far more important than the CL.


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Old 23-06-2016, 22:10
FrankieFixer
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Nonsense. International competitions are the pinnacle of any team sport(, and some individual sports too - eg: athletics).. Unless the sport is played in very few countries at a half competitive level - eg: American football.

Five nations rugby is far more important than club rugby
The Ashes are far more important than county cricket
The World Cup is far more important than the Champions League.
Rugby and cricket are nothing sports that the majority of the world does not even play competitively. Getting called up to an international team can happen even if you or a have never set foot there. It is not the pinnacle of a career and especially not the pinnacle if you are successful at elite club level. Going through in this bloated euros is not anything like winning the champions league.
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:16
FrankieFixer
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I''m talking about wild celebrations for just a goal in a group match and you're comparing that to a 5,000/1 footballing miracle and the reaction to actually winning the CL. You are unbelievable!
Leicester winning the league is a bigger upset and better story than any world cup has or will ever have. A great player winning the champions league and not winning the world cup because he's in an inferior team does not diminish him.
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:22
FrankieFixer
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England are hardly a small nation, but they've been going nuts when they score.
When I see grizely old Keane acting like he did last night, then I need say no more.

Some of you have an sgenda and will refuse to admit the obvious, even when it's there on camera. So, there's no point going round in circles on this .
I know what i'm seeing and hearing with my own eyes and ears and that's good enough for me.
It's such a poor argument. If you had 10,000 drunk, crying with joy Man City fans blubbing because they beat a weakened Juventus to get through to the last 16 would you be saying how great the champions league is?
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:37
Dixon
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Leicester winning the league is a bigger upset and better story than any world cup has or will ever have. A great player winning the champions league and not winning the world cup because he's in an inferior team does not diminish him.
You have not read what i havd been saying.
I have never said anything about a player not winning the World Cup diminishes his status.
All along I have talked about individuals perfomances at tournament level. I repeat, a player cannot be responsible for his entire teams performance, but he is responsible for his own performance.
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:46
Dixon
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Rugby and cricket are nothing sports that the majority of the world does not even play competitively. Getting called up to an international team can happen even if you or a have never set foot there. It is not the pinnacle of a career and especially not the pinnacle if you are successful at elite club level. Going through in this bloated euros is not anything like winning the champions league.
Sorry, but your arguments are getting beyond daft.
You talk about a "bloated tournament" then praise the CL A competition that calls itself the ' 'CHAMPIONS LEAGUE' which is not a league comp.
A comp that has 4th placed clubs in it. Champs???
A comp that has clubs in it that haven't been champs of their country for 25 years, yet still good enough to be called champs of Europe.
What an absolute joke to diss the Euros and big up the CL.
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:54
Dixon
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It's such a poor argument. If you had 10,000 drunk, crying with joy Man City fans blubbing because they beat a weakened Juventus to get through to the last 16 would you be saying how great the champions league is?
Are you drunk by any chance?

Let's pretend none of this happened.
Roy Keane, never said anything sbout prawn sanies and the poor atmosphere at Old Trafford. The champs and biggest club in England we are talking about
No calls for standing areas to be brought back to improve the atmosphere at grounds.
Highbury wasn't nicknamed The Library.
Jose did not moan about the Bridge being too quiet.
There have been no moans about how quiet Man City fans have been on CL nights.
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Old 23-06-2016, 23:00
Grim Fandango
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I think generally younger people who have grown up during the past couple of decades would probably view the CL as the premier competition.

For players the World Cup is still probably a pinnacle simply because it's such a difficult thing to win, especially given that it's only up for grabs every four years.
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Old 23-06-2016, 23:08
celesti
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Some of you have an sgenda
You created this thread entirely based on an agenda that was fuelling your argument in another thread about how players have to do it at international level.
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Old 23-06-2016, 23:49
Dixon
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You created this thread entirely based on an agenda that was fuelling your argument in another thread about how players have to do it at international level.
At least I have something to back up my agenda, other than saying I think this, so therefore it is fact.
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Old 24-06-2016, 01:03
FrankieFixer
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Are you drunk by any chance?

Let's pretend none of this happened.
Roy Keane, never said anything sbout prawn sanies and the poor atmosphere at Old Trafford. The champs and biggest club in England we are talking about
No calls for standing areas to be brought back to improve the atmosphere at grounds.
Highbury wasn't nicknamed The Library.
Jose did not moan about the Bridge being too quiet.
There have been no moans about how quiet Man City fans have been on CL nights.
Your argument about how much joy the fans experienced and relating it to how it makes the euros somehow better is a poorly thought out argument. It makes no sense at all. A league campaign over 38 games vs a tournament game is also irrelevant.
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Old 24-06-2016, 01:04
FrankieFixer
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At least I have something to back up my agenda, other than saying I think this, so therefore it is fact.
Your Ronaldo argument was shot down in flames, again it made absolutely no sense at all. The tearing up over national anthems or other patriotism doesn't make it 'better'.
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Old 24-06-2016, 04:28
mattlamb
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Rugby and cricket are nothing sports that the majority of the world does not even play competitively. Getting called up to an international team can happen even if you or a have never set foot there. It is not the pinnacle of a career and especially not the pinnacle if you are successful at elite club level. Going through in this bloated euros is not anything like winning the champions league.
And yet the international competitions are still far more important than club or county competitions.
Football is one of the most popular sports in most countries in the world so therefore international competitions are even more prestigious bearing this in mind as they are very difficult to win.
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Old 24-06-2016, 07:26
celesti
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At least I have something to back up my agenda, other than saying I think this, so therefore it is fact.
What? That's all you're doing. No part of 'this competition means more than this one' can ever be fact, it's a completely subjective viewpoint.
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Old 24-06-2016, 08:08
Dixon
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What? That's all you're doing. No part of 'this competition means more than this one' can ever be fact, it's a completely subjective viewpoint.
Is a fact what I posted about the atmosphere's at stadiums.
Is a fact about the celebrations of players and fans.
Is s fact about millions more tuning in for England games.
Is a fact about the international tournaments always being regarded as the pinacle, but no longer so just because a few DS fm's say ithey're not.

You got not a single thing like those facts to back your argument up. Nothing!
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Old 24-06-2016, 08:40
Stilton Cheesew
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Is a fact what I posted about the atmosphere's at stadiums.
Is a fact about the celebrations of players and fans.
Is s fact about millions more tuning in for England games.
Is a fact about the international tournaments always being regarded as the pinacle, but no longer so just because a few DS fm's say ithey're not.

You got not a single thing like those facts to back your argument up. Nothing!
Ive given you hundreds of things.

Your "facts" may well be correct, its the conclusions you are drawing from them that are based on nothing but opinion. Its completely subjective to say that because people are celebrating it means they care more.
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Old 24-06-2016, 09:25
celesti
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The viewing figures one is the only actual fact, and at no point have I disagreed with it because I know that facts are factual. My argument is that you don't, and you're providing evidence with each post. I prefer big international tournaments over everything else, particularly a European club competition I'll never have any close involvement with and on a channel I don't subscribe to, but your reasoning for everything is ludicrous.

It's a petulant thread created because a) some mean boys in another thread said that club football counts when talking about elite players so a new thread is a way to get the cavalry onside b) Chelsea aren't in the Champions League this season so of course nobody cares about it and all goals and victories are celebrated with eyerolls and half-hearted handshakes in front of 12 people

Note: none of the reasons above are facts even if I went full Brent and shouted 'fact.' after each one.
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Old 24-06-2016, 09:59
FrankieFixer
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And yet the international competitions are still far more important than club or county competitions.
Football is one of the most popular sports in most countries in the world so therefore international competitions are even more prestigious bearing this in mind as they are very difficult to win.
Cricket and rugby are irrelevant at domestic level, football isn't. That's where the elite players make £300k a week and are heroes. Simply getting called up at international level is not the 'pinnacle' of a career for these players.
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Old 24-06-2016, 12:59
Dixon
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Ive given you hundreds of things.

Your "facts" may well be correct, its the conclusions you are drawing from them that are based on nothing but opinion. Its completely subjective to say that because people are celebrating it means they care more.

Please name just one fact that you gave.

So, then, now you are suggesting there are no scales of human emotion. To you, esstatic, wild celebrations after a goal means no more than an everyday 'well done, mate' hug.
The comments from people in the game, about poor atmosphere's has been around for years and universally agreed with. Now, to suit your point of view they suddenly mean nothing.
Viewing figures are very telling. People see what's on and have a choice what to watch. Many, many millions more care to tune in to watch England in tournaments than they would do if Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea were playing.They don't tune in to watch the club teams because they have no interest in them. Their games are meaningless to them. Simple as!
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:06
celesti
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Because largely Arsenal fans plus casuals will watch Arsenal, whereas England includes the casual tournament viewers plus fans of Arsenal, Aston Villa, Blackburn, Chelsea, Derby, Everton, I'm sure you get the picture.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:08
Dixon
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The viewing figures one is the only actual fact, and at no point have I disagreed with it because I know that facts are factual. My argument is that you don't, and you're providing evidence with each post. I prefer big international tournaments over everything else, particularly a European club competition I'll never have any close involvement with and on a channel I don't subscribe to, but your reasoning for everything is ludicrous.

It's a petulant thread created because a) some mean boys in another thread said that club football counts when talking about elite players so a new thread is a way to get the cavalry onside b) Chelsea aren't in the Champions League this season so of course nobody cares about it and all goals and victories are celebrated with eyerolls and half-hearted handshakes in front of 12 people

Note: none of the reasons above are facts even if I went full Brent and shouted 'fact.' after each one.
I have never said the CL goals are not celebrated and matches are played in front of poor attendances. I have said the atmosphere's can be flat for some games.
All i have been saying is that the celebrations by all at this level, are on a different scale to that of run of the mill CL matches. The players have been talking about how fantastic the atmosphere's have been at this tournament.
You're another completely ignoring the hard facts about people in the game saying the atmosphere at club grounds is not what it used to be. This is not my opinion, it is a fact!.
Do we see fanzones for CL games? No! There's just not the interest for them.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:12
celesti
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...-final-8051922

For the final you do, because that's the game where both sets of fans travel and so the only one with a similar setup to a tournament.

You wouldn't have one for the regular games, as you've got one small away allocation. It's not a lack of interest, it's a lack of travelling supporters by definition.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:13
Dixon
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Because largely Arsenal fans plus casuals will watch Arsenal, whereas England includes fans of Arsenal, Aston Villa, Blackburn, Chelsea, Derby, Everton, I'm sure you get the picture.

'Supporters will watch their team' isn't quite the revelation you're hinging this on.

Yes, i get the picture and that's part of my blinking point all along.
You've just shot yourself in the foot with that reply. Basically admitting that England verses club is on another level of interest and therefore,another level of importance.

Btw. Hand on heart this has nothing whatsoever to do with Chelsea not being in the CL.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:16
celesti
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You've just shot yourself in the foot with that reply. Basically admitting that England verses club is on another level of interest and therefore,another level of importance.
No, that's why viewing figures can't be used to measure anything but how many people have the telly on and particularly can't be used for direct comparison as they're two different beasts.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:18
snukr
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Of course they are, the CL is important to supporters of clubs who are in it, but the Euros and World Cup are watched by people who aren't usually interested in football and they unite the nation, those people who would have no interest in the CL. In the CL, half the people want Man Utd, Chelsea, ect to win, the other half want them to lose.
Winning the World Cup is the biggest honour a player can get, it's far bigger and much more prestigious than a CL win.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:26
Stilton Cheesew
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So, then, now you are suggesting there are no scales of human emotion. To you, esstatic, wild celebrations after a goal means no more than an everyday 'well done, mate' hug.
This is why you are so difficult to discuss things with. I did not say that at all. What I did say is that I disagree a wild celebration means people care more and therefore its more important.

I may have celebrated wildly when I beat my friend playing pool down the pub yet shown much less outward emotion when a relative died or when my girlfriend said yes to my marriage proposal, are you really telling me the game of pool was most important because of the manner I reacted? Of course not, because that would be stupid.
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