People referencing excuses for the Iceland game need to start providing evidence of them.

Otherwise we have to assume that they're deliberately missing the point and looking to wind up.

Its just baiting. If it was a Spurs fan talking about Arsenal it wouldn't be acceptable.

You all keep saying "no one is excising the Iceland game" - Ok, no one has actually said "England played well that day," and I am not saying anyone did. But in my eyes, continuously blaming the press and unreasonable fan expectations is justifying something that simply cannot be justified or excused. It's also completely glossing over the point that England's performances have not just been terrible in the Iceland game, but have been really poor over the course of two tournaments (and even worse than the poor 2010 showing). It is ignoring the fact that the England team has been playing really badly since Sven left.

I know you're being facetious, but one of Englands biggest problems has been the insistance on picking players from the biggest clubs and discounting those from lesser top flight clubs or the Championship, for example Rashford - what is the likelyhood that he would have been in the England squad, if he'd have broke through with exactly the same record at Stoke or Watford? Yet, if anything breaking through with that record would have been a lot more impressive at a lesser club where he isn't surrounded by other top players to help him. You've only got to look at England teams over the years to see that players for top clubs are preferred even if played out of position than someone who is best in that position.

I haven't seen anyone making any excuses. You keep saying it but its simply not true.

What is being said is that its over simplistic to continually demand the removal of the manager and the highest profile players every time England fail whilst ignoring the fact that the same failures have been continually happening and England have been underperforming for the vast majority of the time in existence. Obviously if you have an inept manager he has to go but England have had a hundred and one different types of manager and magically each one has had some massive flaw that meant he "wasn't good enough" and became the scapegoat for failure along with players who demonstrate week in week out that they are of good quality but struggle to replicate that form in a white shirt.

It at least merits deeper investigation rather than what will actually happen - new manager comes in, few games are won and everyone pretends its all great.



You can equally argue that a player who breaks through at a club where he has to play in Europe, is expected to win, and plays in front of 75k fans every week will be better equipped to play International football than someone who hasn't.

That's because the big clubs sign those better players. If you look at players like, for the sake of argument, Troy Deeney, Ryan Shawcross, Craig Gardner and Charlie Daniels, they aren't going to be suggested over any of the names that have been picked. If any young player did break through at a so called lesser club no doubt they would get the attention they deserve. I can't remember the last player who had his sort of impact at a so called lesser club.

The problem is scoring 5 in as many games shouldn't be getting players anywhere near the England side, but it does these days.

My point which was put facetiously to a degree was you can't just jettison players after one or two bad tournaments unless you really think those players underneath are better and if they were we'd already have Deeney at City, Shawcross at United, Gardner at Arsenal and Daniels at Liverpool, with players like Sterling, Cahill, Lallana and Sturridge filling out slots for mid-table sides.

Players tend to be in the second tier for a reason. All the effort and desire in the world won't bridge a gap that talent creates.

That'll be why Englands talent are currently sunning themselves on beaches having been knocked out by a team consisting of 2nd tier players, while Wales another without many top tier players are currently playing in the semi-finals.

In their first tournament in 60 years. Doesn't suggest a pattern does it?

Goal and an assist in a tournament semi-final. That Ronaldo is pure shite, isn't he?

Will be lucky to keep his place in the team.

9 players in the Welsh team were born in England.

See my prediction before the game.
Even counting an excellent header, his overall performance was yet again extrenely average at best!
6 games, 3 goals, two against possibly the worst defence in the tournament and one against mighty Wales. Overall, his performances have been shite and a million miles away from a great tournament.
The real greats dominated strings of matches, not two flashes of excellence!

So the goalposts shift again. The two decisive moments in the game were sparked by Ronaldo and it's still not enough. He needs to have some mythical roy of the rovers performance where he does absolutely everything. Bonkers.

Laughable revisionism.

This thread jumped the shark a long time ago.

No we wouldn't!

Being sensible, the clearly talented players (say Kane and Ali) should be given time to adjust to tournament football.
A span of 4 years would give them 3 tournaments to prove themselves in. If, by then, they are still not performing, then that would surely be enough time to say they haven't got what it takes at this level.
We then look at other players and give them the same chance. You're then talking 8 years on, and if they too fail, by then a new crop of young players will be waiting for their chance.

I cannot believe anyone would want us to continue with this new bunch the way we did with Lsmpard, Gerrard, Rooney and others. Continue to use them tournanent after tournament for ten years plus, even though they never cut it.
Before tonight's game, Bale was asked why some top players shrink at this level. while less talented thrive. He had no answer.

If we see Portugal win the Euros on Sunday

Will we see Ronaldo celebrating like he has won the Champions League

Or will he be crying with tears of joy of the achievement at winning a trophy playing for your country

TBF most of their first choice play in the Premier league and of course there is Bale.

2 were missing tonight and it showed bringing on the likes of Simon Church against a solid but not particularly pretty Portugal side.

Ronaldo's heading ability is something often forgotten about with all his other skills (not shown too many times this tournament I admit) - he has a great leap.

One of England's many issues was the lack of threat from a set play - not helped by having our main striker taking them!

Have you EVER actually seen ANY of the tournaments that the great players that have been talked about played in and dominated? If you have, are you seriously saying that Ronaldo has had a string of great performances like they all did?
If this is what you now call great performances, then the bar has dropped to below ground level. He's been mostly terrible!
Just look for one second who he has scored against. The greats took apart great teams, and were outstanding against great teams. They did not have two class moments against teams who haven't played at a major tournament for blinking decades and decades. I've called him all along. This only underlines my opinion that he's a flat track bully at this level.
I'll call him again, he'll be 100%, shite in the final.

Would you rather be popular in a city you work in, or a sporting hero for millions in the country you were born and bred in?
Tough one, that.

By your metric, only Zidane, Maradona, Pele and Cruyff are great players and even then three of them were in top sides so can be discounted because they didn't win all by themselves and Cruyff didn't even win a trophy. So only Maradona is a truly great player, and even then you've mythologised about him beyond reality.

And were on everyone's radar before the tournament too. Obviously.

What do you think Ronaldo would say if somebody asked him after winning the Euros. What was your greatest achievement in your footballing career

Do you think he would say winning the Champions League

Or

Winning the Euros

Sorry, but I have never said anything about winning trophies = greatness. Nothing whatsoever to do with this whole point! Neither has it ever been about great or not so great teams. All along, it's been about the true greats being able to take their undoubted talents and great club form and performing at their own, individual best against the best at national tournament level. They produced great performances game after game.
Benteke had scored two goals, just one less than Ron. Nobody has said he had a great tournament because he
certainly didn't.
Bale scored two and overall played better than Ron but he also was nowhere near having a great tournament.
I remember Cruyff in a WC final running through a German defence like a hot knife through butter. A German team that had the great Beckenbauer in it
Maradona, single handedly destroying teams.
Pele, on a different planet to the rest of his team, s team that was regarded ad one of. if not the best of all time
Zidane bossing match after match.
Two flashes of Ronaldo's UNDOUBTED TALENT has been nothing compared to that!
He's done what he usually does at this level. A few goals and a couple of moments of his club. If that'd your idea of what an alltime great has to do, then so be it.

😒😒😒😒😒