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The players and fans showing the Euros is far more important than the CL. |
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#26 |
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Join Date: May 2016
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Yes you did.
You said greats do it at club and international level. Are we now changing the bench mark? At the moment he is doing it at club level (this season has scored a record number of goals for his club) and he is doing it international level. Using your own formula he is one of the greats. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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I have been an Arsenal fan all my life, and have revelled in the 6 times they have won the league in my lifetime. But the greatest moment in football I have ever had was when David O'Leary scored the penalty to put Ireland into the WC Quarter Finals in Italia 90. I cried like a baby. Even now seeing it on Youtube still makes me emotional. Club football is great, but seeing your country win in much better.
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#28 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Quote:
Yes you did.
You said greats do it at club and international level. Are we now changing the bench mark? At the moment he is doing it at club level (this season has scored a record number of goals for his club) and he is doing it international level. Using your own formula he is one of the greats. Two goals in one game does not = a player having a great tournament, anymore than a player having one bad game means they've had a bad one. |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Show me one single post of mine anywhere on this forum where I've said he is a world class player. Don't waste your time searching because there won't be one!
Two goals in one game does not = a player having a great tournament, anymore than a player having one bad game means they've had a bad one. |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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I dunno, you seemed quick to dismiss Cristiano Ronaldo after the Iceland game.
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#31 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I dunno, you seemed quick to dismiss Cristiano Ronaldo after the Iceland game.
The real greats - Pele, Cruyff, Maradona et al - had outstanding tournaments and were voted player of the tournament etc. Ronaldo should be giving a series of great games in a tournament but he never has. PS. I hope he does come good as he's a player I enjoy watching when he's on form. |
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#32 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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The goalposts will just continue to move.
As always though, I have a piss easy answer to anything you throw at me. You backed off when I asked you to look through the Chelsea thread to prove I was right and you were wrong. Your comment about George Best was again almost to simple to bother dealing with and now thus latest failed attempt to trap me. Sadly, I can now see what kind of poster you are. I prefer to chat and indeed argue with fm's who are not here to score points over FM's. You start off in this thread slagging me for starting it, yet you post in it several times. I'm not going to bother replying to you anymore. However, if you continue to troll and bait I will report you to the mods. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Show me one single post of mine anywhere on this forum where I've said he is a world class player. Don't waste your time searching because there won't be one!
Two goals in one game does not = a player having a great tournament, anymore than a player having one bad game means they've had a bad one. So by that every player who meets that criteria is either an all time great on their way to being one. He is meeting that criteria (plus at times doing it "on his own") But of course its nonsense because your criteria is just not valid in today's game. Yes in the past it was but football has moved on. While international football is very important and is a decent way of judging talent its not what it was. The movement of players, The cream of the crop being spread over more leagues, The improvement of the leagues has changed how players are judged. While of course footballers still want to perform of their countries and still have great pride and push themselves to the best possible performances and still think a successful international tournament can be the pinnacle of their careers there are just no longer the measuring stick they once was. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Not just one one bad game in tournament football.
The real greats - Pele, Cruyff, Maradona et al - had outstanding tournaments and were voted player of the tournament etc. Ronaldo should be giving a series of great games in a tournament but he never has. PS. I hope he does come good as he's a player I enjoy watching when he's on form. He is the past. Players like Ronaldo are the present and future. Those players are the bench mark today and going forward. In the modern game they are the "great players". |
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#35 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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The Euros is nowhere near the champions league, especially this euros which has been terrible so far.
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#36 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Can you go an entire day without mentioning Cruyff? Yes you like the player but bringing him into every single topic?
He is the past. Players like Ronaldo are the present and future. Those players are the bench mark today and going forward. In the modern game they are the "great players". Pele. Bobby Charlton. Bobby Moore. Gerd Muller. Beckenbaur. Maradona. Mathaius and many others. It didn't matter who they were playing, where they were playing or at what level they were playing, they did the business time and time again. Anyone who says Ronaldo come close to doing that either knows nothing about football or is lying just so it sits with their opinion of him. I used to see this with Mike Tyson fans. They would never admit he fell short when under real pressure. At this level Ronaldo consistently fails to do what he'd do with his eyes shut at club level, and I'm not even taking the missed oenatky into account because anyone can miss them. |
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#37 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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The Euros is nowhere near the champions league, especially this euros which has been terrible so far.
But why cant Ronaldo perform at the Euros when the standard is not as good |
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#38 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Pele. Bobby Charlton. Bobby Moore. Gerd Muller. Beckenbaur. Maradona. Mathaius and many others.
It didn't matter who they were playing, where they were playing or at what level they were playing, they did the business time and time again. Anyone who says Ronaldo come close to doing that either knows nothing about football or is lying just so it sits with their opinion of him. I used to see this with Mike Tyson fans. They would never admit he fell short when under real pressure. At this level Ronaldo consistently fails to do what he'd do with his eyes shut at club level, and I'm not even taking the missed oenatky into account because anyone can miss them. Anyone who says Ronaldo is on their level lives in today and not in the past. As the modern game evolves the international calendar is now a continuation of the club calendar so you need to look at the entire football calendar and not the tail end of it (more so when the level of their preparation and the players around them for many drops to a large extent) you would not judge a player on the last month of the season when their level has been at such a high level throughout the season. The trouble is you are still living in a time where international games are the highest level players play, Its no longer the case. Its much more of a straighter line then it has ever been in the past. We are now entering the last month of a football season, Yes we still have trophies up for grabs its still at the end of the season where different factors come into play then they would if we was in the middle of the season International football is not what it was during the days of those players you are talking about so you can not use the criteria you did in the past to judge today's players. The world of football has changed to much, The game has changed to much, Players have have changed to much. |
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#39 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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Quote:
Pele. Bobby Charlton. Bobby Moore. Gerd Muller. Beckenbaur. Maradona. Mathaius and many others.
It didn't matter who they were playing, where they were playing or at what level they were playing, they did the business time and time again. Anyone who says Ronaldo come close to doing that either knows nothing about football or is lying just so it sits with their opinion of him. I used to see this with Mike Tyson fans. They would never admit he fell short when under real pressure. At this level Ronaldo consistently fails to do what he'd do with his eyes shut at club level, and I'm not even taking the missed oenatky into account because anyone can miss them. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,589
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The idea that the Champions League is more prestigious and more coveted than the Euros and that international football is on the wane is laughable,
There are 125 CL games every single year. I'd say most people around Europe are really only energised by the CL semi finals and the final. |
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#41 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Messi and Ronaldo are the two best players that have ever lived. The game now is well ahead of the 60s, 70s and 80s.
At hid peak he was completely unstoppable and could single handedly ruin defences. IThe UTD fans giving him a standing ovation after he scored a brilliant 3 goals lives in my memory. He never played in a World Cup when fully fit, yet still went on to become the alltime leading scorer in WC finals. That is true greatness, not some flat track bully who never performs at this level. |
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#42 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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And your obsession with the past and how things use to be continues.
Anyone who says Ronaldo is on their level lives in today and not in the past. As the modern game evolves the international calendar is now a continuation of the club calendar so you need to look at the entire football calendar and not the tail end of it (more so when the level of their preparation and the players around them for many drops to a large extent) you would not judge a player on the last month of the season when their level has been at such a high level throughout the season. The trouble is you are still living in a time where international games are the highest level players play, Its no longer the case. Its much more of a straighter line then it has ever been in the past. We are now entering the last month of a football season, Yes we still have trophies up for grabs its still at the end of the season where different factors come into play then they would if we was in the middle of the season International football is not what it was during the days of those players you are talking about so you can not use the criteria you did in the past to judge today's players. The world of football has changed to much, The game has changed to much, Players have have changed to much. The mighty Monaco played Porto in a final. A dour Athletico getting to a final lead by a Torres many years past his best. A trophy won by an English club who haven't been champs of England for decades. A trophy won by a Chelsea team that finished 6th that season. An EPL that has just been won by 5000/1 shot. Despite the money, PSG are still a long way from great. No great Italian teams. One very good German team and two very good Spanish teams is hardly something to prove the CL is all that. The defending at club level is poor these days, even a team like Barca are well dodgy. At least in the Euros we are seeing teams who know how to defend properly. |
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#43 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,105
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Whenever I encounter people claiming the players of today are superior to those of the past, I am reminded of an article about one of the all time greats of world football, Eusébio,
Last summer Africa's first great footballer was invited by his friend and boyhood idol, Alfredo Di Stefáno, to the unveiling of Cristiano Ronaldo by Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu stadium. An €80m purchase from Manchester United, Ronaldo was Portugal's new global star. Di Stefáno nudged Eusébio and said: "That would have been you." ..... As he tells that story about the Ronaldo unveiling, the question of envy creeps into the interviewer's mind. But he is straight on to it, like a loose ball in the box: "There is no jealousy. The generation I played with was the best generation ever. You don't have that now and I wouldn't change it for the money. It was all heart and that's why there were so many great players. Portugal, England, Brazil, Argentina: so many. That's why I'm so happy with what I had, to have been a great player. I'm happy to have been part of that era. "Football nowadays is just commercial. Television commands the times of the games. The players are very good, obviously. I'm happy for the modern-day player who signs his contract and makes lots of money. The players of my era helped make that possible. "I respect the football of today but the football of my time was better. Football hasn't got better, it has just evolved, from the ball to the boots to the shirts to the training methods – everything around them. Pelé, George Best, Cruyff, Garrincha would have been amazing players today. "When we played Real Madrid and won 5-3 [in the 1962 European Cup final – Eusébio scored two] it was soaking wet and the ball ended up weighing a kilo. It didn't have a brand. That's why Pelé or Garrincha, if they played now, would be so wonderful. Consider their boots. There was no personalised footwear from Adidas. We'd have one pair for all surfaces, and the kitman would change the studs according to the conditions. Sometimes they'd do it in a rush and a nail would still be in there. You'd take your boot off and there would be blood from where the nail had penetrated your foot. Back then we made money, but we played for the love, it was all heart." https://www.theguardian.com/football...rica-world-cup |
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#44 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Quote:
Whenever I encounter people claiming the players of today are superior to those of the past, I am reminded of an article about one of the all time greats of world football, Eusébio,
Last summer Africa's first great footballer was invited by his friend and boyhood idol, Alfredo Di Stefáno, to the unveiling of Cristiano Ronaldo by Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu stadium. An €80m purchase from Manchester United, Ronaldo was Portugal's new global star. Di Stefáno nudged Eusébio and said: "That would have been you." ..... As he tells that story about the Ronaldo unveiling, the question of envy creeps into the interviewer's mind. But he is straight on to it, like a loose ball in the box: "There is no jealousy. The generation I played with was the best generation ever. You don't have that now and I wouldn't change it for the money. It was all heart and that's why there were so many great players. Portugal, England, Brazil, Argentina: so many. That's why I'm so happy with what I had, to have been a great player. I'm happy to have been part of that era. "Football nowadays is just commercial. Television commands the times of the games. The players are very good, obviously. I'm happy for the modern-day player who signs his contract and makes lots of money. The players of my era helped make that possible. "I respect the football of today but the football of my time was better. Football hasn't got better, it has just evolved, from the ball to the boots to the shirts to the training methods – everything around them. Pelé, George Best, Cruyff, Garrincha would have been amazing players today. "When we played Real Madrid and won 5-3 [in the 1962 European Cup final – Eusébio scored two] it was soaking wet and the ball ended up weighing a kilo. It didn't have a brand. That's why Pelé or Garrincha, if they played now, would be so wonderful. Consider their boots. There was no personalised footwear from Adidas. We'd have one pair for all surfaces, and the kitman would change the studs according to the conditions. Sometimes they'd do it in a rush and a nail would still be in there. You'd take your boot off and there would be blood from where the nail had penetrated your foot. Back then we made money, but we played for the love, it was all heart." https://www.theguardian.com/football...rica-world-cup Along with the boots and balls being very different, there is the state of the pitches. These days they are as flat as snooker tables and perfect to play on. Gone are the days of horrid bumpy pitches (see some of the dreadfully bobling balls in the 70,world cup ) and the mud heaps and sand covered pitches. Gone are the days when George Best would be walking off at half time with blood running down both his knees. I would say the quality of the poor/average player and team is hugher now, but the quality at the very top is not what it used to be. |
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#45 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West London
Posts: 5,657
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I have been an Arsenal fan all my life, and have revelled in the 6 times they have won the league in my lifetime. But the greatest moment in football I have ever had was when David O'Leary scored the penalty to put Ireland into the WC Quarter Finals in Italia 90. I cried like a baby. Even now seeing it on Youtube still makes me emotional. Club football is great, but seeing your country win in much better.
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#46 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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Until injuiries took their toll and finished him off, Brazilian Ronaldo was a different class to this one.
At hid peak he was completely unstoppable and could single handedly ruin defences. IThe UTD fans giving him a standing ovation after he scored a brilliant 3 goals lives in my memory. He never played in a World Cup when fully fit, yet still went on to become the alltime leading scorer in WC finals. That is true greatness, not some flat track bully who never performs at this level. Portugese Ronaldo is ahead of Brazilian Ronaldo in every area of the game. Portugese Ronaldo in a Spain or German side would tear the world cup and euros apart. |
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#47 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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Quote:
I have been an Arsenal fan all my life, and have revelled in the 6 times they have won the league in my lifetime. But the greatest moment in football I have ever had was when David O'Leary scored the penalty to put Ireland into the WC Quarter Finals in Italia 90. I cried like a baby. Even now seeing it on Youtube still makes me emotional. Club football is great, but seeing your country win in much better.
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#48 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Quote:
Until injuiries took their toll and finished him off, Brazilian Ronaldo was a different class to this one.
At hid peak he was completely unstoppable and could single handedly ruin defences. IThe UTD fans giving him a standing ovation after he scored a brilliant 3 goals lives in my memory. He never played in a World Cup when fully fit, yet still went on to become the alltime leading scorer in WC finals. That is true greatness, not some flat track bully who never performs at this level. |
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#49 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,429
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Where are all these amazing teams in the CL?
The mighty Monaco played Porto in a final. A dour Athletico getting to a final lead by a Torres many years past his best. A trophy won by an English club who haven't been champs of England for decades. A trophy won by a Chelsea team that finished 6th that season. An EPL that has just been won by 5000/1 shot. Despite the money, PSG are still a long way from great. No great Italian teams. One very good German team and two very good Spanish teams is hardly something to prove the CL is all that. The defending at club level is poor these days, even a team like Barca are well dodgy. At least in the Euros we are seeing teams who know how to defend properly. |
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#50 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,429
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Until injuiries took their toll and finished him off, Brazilian Ronaldo was a different class to this one.
At hid peak he was completely unstoppable and could single handedly ruin defences. IThe UTD fans giving him a standing ovation after he scored a brilliant 3 goals lives in my memory. He never played in a World Cup when fully fit, yet still went on to become the alltime leading scorer in WC finals. That is true greatness, not some flat track bully who never performs at this level. Complete and utter nonsense of the highest order. It's not based in any degree of reality whatsoever |
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