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The players and fans showing the Euros is far more important than the CL. |
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#101 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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Inter!
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#102 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,397
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Thats what makes me laugh about messi, you look at brazilisn ronaldo, a legend of the game and the clubs hes been successful with real barca, inter corinthians and then u look at messi all you see is barcelona a barcelona b barcelona c lmao he will never leave barca. Tbh i could probably manage 10-15 goals a season if i had suarez and neymar with me lolol
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#103 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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What a ridiculous argument. Sorry!
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#104 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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Sad to say, you're another FM who thinks they're really clever and try to score points whenever they can.
As always though, I have a piss easy answer to anything you throw at me. You backed off when I asked you to look through the Chelsea thread to prove I was right and you were wrong. Your comment about George Best was again almost to simple to bother dealing with and now thus latest failed attempt to trap me. Sadly, I can now see what kind of poster you are. I prefer to chat and indeed argue with fm's who are not here to score points over FM's. You start off in this thread slagging me for starting it, yet you post in it several times. I'm not going to bother replying to you anymore. However, if you continue to troll and bait I will report you to the mods. If you just said you like player x cos its your opinion or you like team y cos its your opinion, thats fine, we all have preferences or irrational likes or dislikes but you keep trying to pass your opinions off as fact whilst getting your criteria hopelessly mixed up depending on which player or team you are talking about. That isn't my fault and it is neither trolling nor baiting to point it out. You bang on about Brazilian Ronaldo (a great player) yet you didn't know he played for Real Madrid. Essentially by your own criteria true "great" players can only come from a handful of countries because in order to be great they have to perform at an International tournament so that rules out 3/4 of the world players straight away. Next not only do they have to do that they have to drag said team along on their own so anyone with the good fortune to be born in one of those countries has to be born in a generation when the rest of the players aren't quite so good. Its virtually impossible to please you and even then you seem to totally misjudge the quality of teams anyway. Again thats not my fault. You walked away from the last thread when your inaccuracies were pointed out and it seems from the last two or three pages here Im at the back of a long long queue to do it again. Just say who you like and dislike and declare you biases up front because when you try and justify it as being factual it goes really badly wrong. |
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#105 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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You are bang out of order. Im neither trolling nor baiting, i'm just pointing out the inaccuracies of your opinions. You continually shoot yourself in the foot without me having to do any more than that.
If you just said you like player x cos its your opinion or you like team y cos its your opinion, thats fine, we all have preferences or irrational likes or dislikes but you keep trying to pass your opinions off as fact whilst getting your criteria hopelessly mixed up depending on which player or team you are talking about. That isn't my fault and it is neither trolling nor baiting to point it out. You bang on about Brazilian Ronaldo (a great player) yet you didn't know he played for Real Madrid. Essentially by your own criteria true "great" players can only come from a handful of countries because in order to be great they have to perform at an International tournament so that rules out 3/4 of the world players straight away. Next not only do they have to do that they have to drag said team along on their own so anyone with the good fortune to be born in one of those countries has to be born in a generation when the rest of the players aren't quite so good. Its virtually impossible to please you and even then you seem to totally misjudge the quality of teams anyway. Again thats not my fault. You walked away from the last thread when your inaccuracies were pointed out and it seems from the last two or three pages here Im at the back of a long long queue to do it again. Just say who you like and dislike and declare you biases up front because when you try and justify it as being factual it goes really badly wrong. Fact is Ronaldo has never been player of a tournament. I have repeatedly said a player can still be great regardless of the team he's in. Players do not have to win the big ones to be great - Cruyff never did with Holland- but they still played great. Also lots of FM's have been on my side on this. Some are more extreme than me, and some admit they too forget some simple things. The football media have put question marks about his performances in tournaments, as they have done with Messi. There are no question marks against Pele and co. Why is that? I did not back off from you in the other thread. I answered everything you threw at me. I just got bored going round in circles with you. There is no question mark |
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#106 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Messi not playing for a lesser side than Barcelona can't be held against him with any logic. No matter how many world class teammates he has there, he became a first team player at a young age and had spent a decade ruling the roost. It takes a very special player to excel in those circumstances, certainly not one coasting along.
Ronaldo's spell at Milan was a bit too late, but he still had a decent scoring rate. He's one of those who'd score even in one leg. |
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#107 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,605
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Messi not playing for a lesser side than Barcelona can't be held against him with any logic. No matter how many world class teammates he has there, he became a first team player at a young age and had spent a decade ruling the roost. It takes a very special player to excel in those circumstances, certainly not one coasting along.
Ronaldo's spell at Milan was a bit too late, but he still had a decent scoring rate. He's one of those who'd score even in one leg. A move away means only a sideways move at best. The style of play along with the large pitch suits him, so I see no reason why he'd ever want to leave. By then, at the end the injuiries had taken a serious toll on Ronaldo. I gather he was a poor trainer. If he'd looked after himself and worked as hard as Ron 2, and not had those injuries, he might have widely regarded as the best of alltime. He really was that great when fully fit. |
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#108 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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These are my own opinions but some things are facts!
Fact is Ronaldo has never been player of a tournament. I have repeatedly said a player can still be great regardless of the team he's in. Players do not have to win the big ones to be great - Cruyff never did with Holland- but they still played great. Also lots of FM's have been on my side on this. Some are more extreme than me, and some admit they too forget some simple things. The football media have put question marks about his performances in tournaments, as they have done with Messi. There are no question marks against Pele and co. Why is that? I did not back off from you in the other thread. I answered everything you threw at me. I just got bored going round in circles with you. There is no question mark However that doesn't mean Cruyff, Pele and Maradona aren't greats - of course they are no one is arguing that. They can all be great players as can Messi and Ronaldo, you dont have to fit a set tick box exercise to be a great. What I would say is that in the modern game you see Messi's every game - the bad with the good, you see Ronaldo's every game - the bad with the good. As much as Pele is a true great, back in those days how many of his games did you watch? How many club games of his have you seen? What was the standard of opposition? In most cases with guys from the 70s and before what we have are highlight reels. Apart from Brazil in the 70 World Cup, dads aside how much of Pele have we actually seen? Its a different world now and we see all the top players all the time so of course we can make a more rounded judgement of their ability. We dont need to rely on a tournament every four years and hope they hit their heights then. We see then in every big game every week. Thats really the point I'm trying to make. Messi and Ronaldo have changed what it means to be a striker. They combine beating the numbers of the greatest number 9s with the skills of the greatest number 10s. They are true greats of the game and thats fine - they can do it without affecting the greatness of players of the past. |
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#109 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26,160
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That one club though has world class players in every position. At least portuguese ronaldo had success at united aswell. Messi is scared to leave barca.
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#110 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,343
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This is a YouTube comments level taking point.
I was thinking more 'Daily Star Text Maniacs' personally. |
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#111 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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This is a YouTube comments level taking point.
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#112 |
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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A list of things Maradona did does not negate the things that Messi has done. No one has said Maradona isn't a legend but that doesn't mean Messi isn't one of the greats and no amount of exaggerated use of capital letters changes that.
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#113 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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Argentina were not average.
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#114 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Would Jamie Vary be better than Maradona seeing as he took Leicester.......yes Leicester City to win the Premier League title??!!
If he helps England to win these European Championships, does that cement his legacy?
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#115 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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Argentina were not average.
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#116 |
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Would Jamie Vary be better than Maradona seeing as he took Leicester.......yes Leicester City to win the Premier League title??!!
If he helps England to win these European Championships, does that cement his legacy? ![]() |
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#117 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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A list of things Maradona did does not negate the things that Messi has done. No one has said Maradona isn't a legend but that doesn't mean Messi isn't one of the greats and no amount of exaggerated use of capital letters changes that.
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#118 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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Messi will not have the same legacy as Maradona.
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#119 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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It is well known that the 86 Argentina team were infact bang average.. Can you name me any world class players from that team?
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#120 |
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He already has.
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#121 |
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It's not well known, it's just the lazy explanation trotted out about a player who doesn't need exaggeration. Leaping from 'bang average' to world class with nothing inbetween is similarly simplistic, so you're probably best sticking with it.
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#122 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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The public are lazy and stupid.
I doubt your mind will be changed, but there's a decent writup here why Argentina a few years after their first World Cup weren't a load of chumps and also why Napoli weren't 'lol' http://www.averageopposition.com/201...-maradona.html He's the best player I've ever seen, but no genius does it alone. |
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#123 |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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The public are lazy and stupid.
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#124 |
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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lol no he doesnt.
To put Messi ahead of Maradona or Maradona ahead of Messi is simply a judgement call and certainly not any sort of foregone conclusion. |
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#125 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 771
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lol only valdano could be argued as good but probably not world class.
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