Back on topic.
I have never, ever seen Roy Keane look so overjoyed as he was tonight.
Along with his reaction, the fans reaction (some ROI crying at this stage of the tournament) and the complete dissapointment of those who went out, says everything about how much this means.

I know you never see this in the Champions League because playing for your club is not the same as playing for country

Playing for your country is the pinnacle in every footballers career

I just remembered Chelsea aren't playing the Champions League next season. Suddenly this all makes sense.

That's wherepart of me thinks that the reason Keane was so emotional was because he missed the chance of scenes like this as a player in 2002 due to his own pig headedness

That competition is only for flat track bullies anyway.

No it isn't.

Is that a fact or just your opinion?
Either way, do have a single fact or reason to back that up?

The evidence that this means more has been there for everyone to see!
Even at just the group stages we have seen goals and results being celebrated by players and fans, like they have just won the Euros,
Grown men crying in the stands, Brady saying it was like an "out if body experience"
Old soldiers like Keane and O'Neil going bonkers.
This is on a completely different level to the mundane early stages of the CL. The atmosphere in these group stages has been better that you get in most CL finals. Vastly more people watching on TV as well.
Anyone who's denying this has either not been watching or is telling a bare faced lie in order to fit their view that club football is bigger.

It's completely ridiculous to argue that the CL means more to a player or to (the vast majority of) fans than a Euro or World Cup. It's utter nonsense.

Players who have won both will never refer to winning the CL as the pinnacle of their careers because it wasn't.

Anyway...

There are sporting events that changed the course of whole nations - one of them was Germany winning the World Cup in 1954 (another was the US Miracle on Ice). I've never heard of a club winning the CL having that effect.

Celtic still celebrate the Lisbon Lions to this day.

And many clubs celebrate their teams' past achievements, but that doesn't have any effect on the nation as a whole some sporting events are bigger than the individual clubs

So you want a club result to have the exact same effect as a national team result, otherwise one is better than the other? Solid.

I am just saying that a national team win means more to players and fans than club wins.

I don't think that can really be said either way, it's a person to person thing. Look how many England fans cackle at their misfortune on here as a small example.

So then, a local by-election result is just as important
as what's going on today? Of course it is.
There scales of importance in all walks of life. You know that, so stop being a silly billy.

If England actually won the Euros (not even talking about Worlds) the whole nation would be celebrating this moment for the next 50 years (until the next semi-final exist )

Yes, 11 extremely hard to please DS FM's is just as representative as 30,000 England fans who have travelled to see their team play and give them the most tremendous vocal support. Not forgetting the many millions at home watching them on the telly.

I'm sure they would, but if you offered fans the chance to trade it for their own club's success I think you might find a different set of priorities. I mean I'm a million miles from the people committing suicide because we didn't score against Slovakia, but I'd go out against Iceland if you offered me so much as a League one playoff place next season.


I'd work on those metaphors.

If forum members are a biased selection, you think people paying money to go watch England aren't? Now who's a silly billy.

Millions watch, but that doesn't tell you anything about them other than they like it when football's on the telly.

Compare the viewing figures for the big England ganes, then compare them to UTD (our biggest club) playing in the CL or Premiership.
There's no comparison in the interest.

Twist this as much as you like. The numbers and the reactions of players and fans prove the point beyond any doubt!

I love PL and CL football, but nothing compares to a blood and thunder international match at a major tournament with proper stakes. Absolutely nothing comes close.

The reaction of the Icelandic commentator to their goal, or the Irish fans to Brady's goal...you can't sell those sort of moments to BT Sport. They are absolutely exclusive to international football.

It isn't surprising however to see the England fans here arguing they would trade international success for club success. Never in a million years would you see someone from another part of the British isles say that. I would quite happily send Manchester United to League Two for the next twenty years for Northern Ireland to win the Euros!

BIB - that's very true and it doesn't just apply to the British Isles. You will never hear a German or an Italian fan say that for instance

You cant say that with any degree of certainty. Its easier to say it if you are talking about players who play for countries who actually have a hope of winning a World Cup but that is a very narrow band. Ask players who through no fault of their own, nor reflection on either their hard work or ability will never come close to a World Cup win what they would look for and they will be club focussed.

The World Cup means more to other players simply because it is rarer and as such you need many things outwith your control to come together in order to win one. It isn't an automatic indicator of sporting greatness nor ability, its simply a snapshot of a moment in time, ask the Newcastle fans who watched Stephane Guivarc'h

Well, ask players who have won both which was their greatest achievement and you will get your answer.

And players like Robben or RVP or Messi or Cruyff etc (and countless others) would I assure you happily give up their many club medals for that one decisive goal that would have resulted in them lifting the World Cup.

So lets say Wales fall in the last 8. Do you think Bale will call that the best achievement of his career ahead of his, so far, two CL medals ?

Unfortunately I don't know these players so I cannot ask them however what basis you have for making such sweeping ridiculous statements I don't know.

Messi would give up everything he has achieved in the game to have won the last World Cup?????? I see.