It all just feels too comfortable for me, the latter stage of the groups has seen the sheen wear off a little. I'd rather they either drop back to 16 teams or just go the big 32 next time, really cut the crap in the groups and make every game matter.
Group B: Slovakia vs England - (20/6/16) KO 8pm, ITV1/HD
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Originally Posted by shelleyj89:
“Of the changes we made from the starting eleven against Russia, I thought Wilshere was awful. His lack of fitness and lack of playing time this season really showed. Bertrand is nowhere near the level of Rose. Vardy was useless in that system, and Sturridge suited it better was mostly anonymous. I fee like Henderson tried, but he is bang average and pedestrian. Clyne was the best of the changes, but I don't think he is as good as Walker. He faded by about the hour mark, whereas Walker can keep going and going and going. He also wasn't really tested defensively, so had the freedom to attack all night.
For those who kept their spots, Hart, Smalling and Cahill barely had anything to do, Dier was again excellent and I thought Lallana was ok. I would have kept him on over Vardy.”
“Of the changes we made from the starting eleven against Russia, I thought Wilshere was awful. His lack of fitness and lack of playing time this season really showed. Bertrand is nowhere near the level of Rose. Vardy was useless in that system, and Sturridge suited it better was mostly anonymous. I fee like Henderson tried, but he is bang average and pedestrian. Clyne was the best of the changes, but I don't think he is as good as Walker. He faded by about the hour mark, whereas Walker can keep going and going and going. He also wasn't really tested defensively, so had the freedom to attack all night.
For those who kept their spots, Hart, Smalling and Cahill barely had anything to do, Dier was again excellent and I thought Lallana was ok. I would have kept him on over Vardy.”
I do have to say that I agree with what you are saying here, especially with regards to Whilshire, he just gassed far to early for a player of his supposed reputation and abilities (and those are questionable at best, considering he has been absent for the best part of two years).
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“I do have to say that I agree with what you are saying here, especially with regards to Whilshire, he just gassed far to early for a player of his supposed reputation and abilities (and those are questionable at best, considering he has been absent for the best part of two years).”
“I do have to say that I agree with what you are saying here, especially with regards to Whilshire, he just gassed far to early for a player of his supposed reputation and abilities (and those are questionable at best, considering he has been absent for the best part of two years).”
You are entitled to some 'I told you so' regarding Wilshere - although it really is about time you learned how to spell his name - but try not to overdo it batdude ... please
Originally Posted by celesti:
“It all just feels too comfortable for me, the latter stage of the groups has seen the sheen wear off a little. I'd rather they either drop back to 16 teams or just go the big 32 next time, really cut the crap in the groups and make every game matter.”
“It all just feels too comfortable for me, the latter stage of the groups has seen the sheen wear off a little. I'd rather they either drop back to 16 teams or just go the big 32 next time, really cut the crap in the groups and make every game matter.”
i was very relaxed watching England last night. Slovakia had absolutely no intention of trying to score, or really play football for that matter.
Originally Posted by Minkinit:
“i was very relaxed watching England last night. Slovakia had absolutely no intention of trying to score, or really play football for that matter.”
“i was very relaxed watching England last night. Slovakia had absolutely no intention of trying to score, or really play football for that matter.”
I can't remember the last time I was relaxed watching England in a tournament. I'm surprised they don't sell Valium along with the kit.
Originally Posted by NiteOwl12:
“You are entitled to some 'I told you so' regarding Wilshere - although it really is about time you learned how to spell his name - but try not to overdo it batdude ... please”
“You are entitled to some 'I told you so' regarding Wilshere - although it really is about time you learned how to spell his name - but try not to overdo it batdude ... please
”
Oops my bad sorry.
The point still stands though why take a player who has not played in neigh on two years, it was very much a case of managers favourite there (teachers pet is another way of saying it).
So it is no shock that he played poorly, he simply has not had the required game time under his belt, and form to even be under consideration for a squad place, nevermind actually playing for England.
Originally Posted by Minkinit:
“i was very relaxed watching England last night. Slovakia had absolutely no intention of trying to score, or really play football for that matter.”
“i was very relaxed watching England last night. Slovakia had absolutely no intention of trying to score, or really play football for that matter.”
That is the trouble, being relaxed is not a good thing, as it meant we were not troubling them.
There was no great period of dominance, where it looked like a goal was imminent, it was just slow, boring sideways and backwards football, with no-one looking to exert themselves too much in search of a goal.
It was almost as if both sides were happy enough with a 0-0 before and after the game.
I see it's the usual moanfest from the usual suspects here.
Slovakia played like many teams have done at this tournament. They were well organised, and defended like their lives depended on it. Other teams playing like that against better teams have won praise for that.
We've actually dominated every group match, and qualified. It's been a long time since that happened.
Games will open up from now on, and we have a chance against anyone.
Slovakia played like many teams have done at this tournament. They were well organised, and defended like their lives depended on it. Other teams playing like that against better teams have won praise for that.
We've actually dominated every group match, and qualified. It's been a long time since that happened.
Games will open up from now on, and we have a chance against anyone.
Like many have said it was back to the sideways backwards passing. The whole team seemed to be so low energy. I can't help comparing them to say an Italy. I know it's not like for like, but the Italians played their first game like it was a final. Even though France haven't been firing on all cylinders they have creativity.
This team is so "meh" compared to the the other top sides in the Euros. Why did Wales get out of the blocks so quickly against Russia while we coasted out for the Slovakia match? I don't think it's all Hodgson I put the blame also at the players.
The England players don't have anything to prove and therefore don't show the passion needed to do something at tournaments anymore. We'll need to hold the World Cup or Euros in England to see that passion on display.
This team is so "meh" compared to the the other top sides in the Euros. Why did Wales get out of the blocks so quickly against Russia while we coasted out for the Slovakia match? I don't think it's all Hodgson I put the blame also at the players.
The England players don't have anything to prove and therefore don't show the passion needed to do something at tournaments anymore. We'll need to hold the World Cup or Euros in England to see that passion on display.
We've been better than we have in a group stage for many tournaments.
If we don't have the quality, you cant blame the manager. For one or two wrong selections, yes, but if every England team for 20 years has failed to have the ability to play flowing football and show great ability and vision and technique it is not Roy Hodgsons fault.
If we don't have the quality, you cant blame the manager. For one or two wrong selections, yes, but if every England team for 20 years has failed to have the ability to play flowing football and show great ability and vision and technique it is not Roy Hodgsons fault.
Originally Posted by VichyTen:
“Like many have said it was back to the sideways backwards passing. The whole team seemed to be so low energy. I can't help comparing them to say an Italy. I know it's not like for like, but the Italians played their first game like it was a final. Even though France haven't been firing on all cylinders they have creativity.
This team is so "meh" compared to the the other top sides in the Euros. Why did Wales get out of the blocks so quickly against Russia while we coasted out for the Slovakia match? I don't think it's all Hodgson I put the blame also at the players.
The England players don't have anything to prove and therefore don't show the passion needed to do something at tournaments anymore. We'll need to hold the World Cup or Euros in England to see that passion on display.”
“Like many have said it was back to the sideways backwards passing. The whole team seemed to be so low energy. I can't help comparing them to say an Italy. I know it's not like for like, but the Italians played their first game like it was a final. Even though France haven't been firing on all cylinders they have creativity.
This team is so "meh" compared to the the other top sides in the Euros. Why did Wales get out of the blocks so quickly against Russia while we coasted out for the Slovakia match? I don't think it's all Hodgson I put the blame also at the players.
The England players don't have anything to prove and therefore don't show the passion needed to do something at tournaments anymore. We'll need to hold the World Cup or Euros in England to see that passion on display.”
Did you watch the game? How do you break down teams when the are set up like Slovakia? Should we go back to the hoof it to the big fella days?
We are playing like other international teams at long last.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“Did you watch the game? How do you break down teams when the are set up like Slovakia? Should we go back to the hoof it to the big fella days?
We are playing like other international teams at long last.”
“Did you watch the game? How do you break down teams when the are set up like Slovakia? Should we go back to the hoof it to the big fella days?
We are playing like other international teams at long last.”
I did watch the game and they weren't very good. The team can't fall back on the excuse of the parked bus. A top side needs to be adaptable enough to break those teams down, not just revert to type. The lack of creativity told yesterday. The only players in that team who can in theory create that spark are Alli and Dier and possibly Rooney and they didn't do it.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“I see it's the usual moanfest from the usual suspects here.
Slovakia played like many teams have done at this tournament. They were well organised, and defended like their lives depended on it. Other teams playing like that against better teams have won praise for that.
We've actually dominated every group match, and qualified. It's been a long time since that happened.
Games will open up from now on, and we have a chance against anyone.”
“I see it's the usual moanfest from the usual suspects here.
Slovakia played like many teams have done at this tournament. They were well organised, and defended like their lives depended on it. Other teams playing like that against better teams have won praise for that.
We've actually dominated every group match, and qualified. It's been a long time since that happened.
Games will open up from now on, and we have a chance against anyone.”
Having the ball when the opposition team doesn't want it, is that really something to be proud of?
The manager at this level of the game, should be able to adapt to a team sitting deep and tell his players, especially in those crucial half time minutes how to penetrate a resolute defence like that, as it is surely something that he should be able to recognise and know how to deal with.
The fact that he couldn't do so, is a very poor reflection on him.
Being slow and ponderous on the ball, is not deserving of praise, we should have been far more quicker last night, running with the ball, looking to beat a man, do something, anything other than looking like an over 75 walking football team.
We need to vastly change our tactics if we wish to win our next match against whomever that may turn out to be.
Originally Posted by VichyTen:
“I did watch the game and they weren't very good. The team can't fall back on the excuse of the parked bus. A top side needs to be adaptable enough to break those teams down, not just revert to type. The lack of creativity told yesterday. The only players in that team who can in theory create that spark are Alli and Dier and possibly Rooney and they didn't do it.”
“I did watch the game and they weren't very good. The team can't fall back on the excuse of the parked bus. A top side needs to be adaptable enough to break those teams down, not just revert to type. The lack of creativity told yesterday. The only players in that team who can in theory create that spark are Alli and Dier and possibly Rooney and they didn't do it.”
Spain, France and Germany have all had similar games. I think they are considered very top sides. Teams are better organised nowadays, and even sides like Iceland, and Albania are proving tough to break down for much better teams.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Having the ball when the opposition team doesn't want it, is that really something to be proud of?
The manager at this level of the game, should be able to adapt to a team sitting deep and tell his players, especially in those crucial half time minutes how to penetrate a resolute defence like that, as it is surely something that he should be able to recognise and know how to deal with.
The fact that he couldn't do so, is a very poor reflection on him.
Being slow and ponderous on the ball, is not deserving of praise, we should have been far more quicker last night, running with the ball, looking to beat a man, do something, anything other than looking like an over 75 walking football team.
We need to vastly change our tactics if we wish to win our next match against whomever that may turn out to be.”
“Having the ball when the opposition team doesn't want it, is that really something to be proud of?
The manager at this level of the game, should be able to adapt to a team sitting deep and tell his players, especially in those crucial half time minutes how to penetrate a resolute defence like that, as it is surely something that he should be able to recognise and know how to deal with.
The fact that he couldn't do so, is a very poor reflection on him.
Being slow and ponderous on the ball, is not deserving of praise, we should have been far more quicker last night, running with the ball, looking to beat a man, do something, anything other than looking like an over 75 walking football team.
We need to vastly change our tactics if we wish to win our next match against whomever that may turn out to be.”
So would you level that at the French, Spanish and Germans when they've had the same problems, or is it just down to being anti Roy, and one of those people who slag off their own team all the time when they dont win?
That is a common factor in phone ins, and club threads. Most people are moaners when it comes to participating in these things, and can only see the negative.
Mr Bilic on tv said we played very well, and I could see his points, and I respect his view over the moaning minnies of this forum.
I'm happy to say if we play badly, but we didn't. We've played badly in all the tournaments since 96, but so far in this one, we haven't. Can you recall us ever attacking, and dominating games like this in groups? All three of our opponents set themselves up to stop us, including Wales.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“Spain, France and Germany have all had similar games. I think they are considered very top sides. Teams are better organised nowadays, and even sides like Iceland, and Albania are proving tough to break down for much better teams.”
“Spain, France and Germany have all had similar games. I think they are considered very top sides. Teams are better organised nowadays, and even sides like Iceland, and Albania are proving tough to break down for much better teams.”
And how did those top teams do against teams that sat back and defended?
They found a way to win, whereas we just looked clueless, and just tried long hopeful balls, with no plan or idea as to how to actually score last night, that is the crucial difference.
We have no-one like Payet or Inestia, who can do what is needed at the crucial moments.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“I see it's the usual moanfest from the usual suspects here.
Slovakia played like many teams have done at this tournament. They were well organised, and defended like their lives depended on it. Other teams playing like that against better teams have won praise for that.
We've actually dominated every group match, and qualified. It's been a long time since that happened.
Games will open up from now on, and we have a chance against anyone.”
“I see it's the usual moanfest from the usual suspects here.
Slovakia played like many teams have done at this tournament. They were well organised, and defended like their lives depended on it. Other teams playing like that against better teams have won praise for that.
We've actually dominated every group match, and qualified. It's been a long time since that happened.
Games will open up from now on, and we have a chance against anyone.”
C'mon you know full well that England should dominate games vs that level of opposition.
I was surprised Coleman set Wales up so negative v England when there really wasn't any need to.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“So would you level that at the French, Spanish and Germans when they've had the same problems, or is it just down to being anti Roy, and one of those people who slag off their own team all the time when they dont win?
That is a common factor in phone ins, and club threads. Most people are moaners when it comes to participating in these things, and can only see the negative.
Mr Bilic on tv said we played very well, and I could see his points, and I respect his view over the moaning minnies of this forum.
I'm happy to say if we play badly, but we didn't. We've played badly in all the tournaments since 96, but so far in this one, we haven't. Can you recall us ever attacking, and dominating games like this in groups? All three of our opponents set themselves up to stop us, including Wales.”
“So would you level that at the French, Spanish and Germans when they've had the same problems, or is it just down to being anti Roy, and one of those people who slag off their own team all the time when they dont win?
That is a common factor in phone ins, and club threads. Most people are moaners when it comes to participating in these things, and can only see the negative.
Mr Bilic on tv said we played very well, and I could see his points, and I respect his view over the moaning minnies of this forum.
I'm happy to say if we play badly, but we didn't. We've played badly in all the tournaments since 96, but so far in this one, we haven't. Can you recall us ever attacking, and dominating games like this in groups? All three of our opponents set themselves up to stop us, including Wales.”
I was fully agreeing with Bilic last night, he was the only pundit who said things that I was saying.
You can't lump last night's dominance with the ball in with the other two games, as the opposition did not want the ball, so praising us for having something the opposition did not want at all is pointless.
I am not moaning for moaning sake, belive me, if we were to perform well, then I would be the first person to congratulate the team in doing so.
I would love for us to do well, nothing would make me happier, as that is all that I want to see us do.
Oh and please don't put me down as anti-Roy, I think he is a very experienced manager with a lot of credentials behind him, but he has just got a lot of things wrong in regards to this tournament so far.
The Spanish played very well and scored three times against Turkey, in which game can you say that we played even remotely like that?
Whilst France have had tough games as well, they have got players that at crucial moments really make a difference, we do not sadly.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“And how did those top teams do against teams that sat back and defended?
They found a way to win, whereas we just looked clueless, and just tried long hopeful balls, with no plan or idea as to how to actually score last night, that is the crucial difference.
We have no-one like Payet or Inestia, who can do what is needed at the crucial moments.”
“And how did those top teams do against teams that sat back and defended?
They found a way to win, whereas we just looked clueless, and just tried long hopeful balls, with no plan or idea as to how to actually score last night, that is the crucial difference.
We have no-one like Payet or Inestia, who can do what is needed at the crucial moments.”
What??
Is that Roys fault? Those other teams have not broken down lesser opponents in games. The defensive qualities of these teams should be noted.
Who really thought we'd dominate all of our games the way we have? So many people were complaining about Roy being negative, and he's shown that with the right players, he isn't. That must be upsetting for you, so it's now his fault we dont have an Iniesta.
We have who we have, and we have to do our best with them.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“I was fully agreeing with Bilic last night, he was the only pundit who said things that I was saying.
You can't lump last night's dominance with the ball in with the other two games, as the opposition did not want the ball, so praising us for having something the opposition did not want at all is pointless.
I am not moaning for moaning sake, belive me, if we were to perform well, then I would be the first person to congratulate the team in doing so.
I would love for us to do well, nothing would make me happier, as that is all that I want to see us do.
Oh and please don't put me down as anti-Roy, I think he is a very experienced manager with a lot of credentials behind him, but he has just got a lot of things wrong in regards to this tournament so far.
The Spanish played very well and scored three times against Turkey, in which game can you say that we played even remotely like that?
Whilst France have had tough games as well, they have got players that at crucial moments really make a difference, we do not sadly.”
“I was fully agreeing with Bilic last night, he was the only pundit who said things that I was saying.
You can't lump last night's dominance with the ball in with the other two games, as the opposition did not want the ball, so praising us for having something the opposition did not want at all is pointless.
I am not moaning for moaning sake, belive me, if we were to perform well, then I would be the first person to congratulate the team in doing so.
I would love for us to do well, nothing would make me happier, as that is all that I want to see us do.
Oh and please don't put me down as anti-Roy, I think he is a very experienced manager with a lot of credentials behind him, but he has just got a lot of things wrong in regards to this tournament so far.
The Spanish played very well and scored three times against Turkey, in which game can you say that we played even remotely like that?
Whilst France have had tough games as well, they have got players that at crucial moments really make a difference, we do not sadly.”
We are not Spain, and that should not be used against us.
Roys last two tournaments were dire, due to the players available. We now have a young squad, playing attacking football.
France, and Spain have won games with late goals, and you say they have the players to do that. When we did that, you said we were lucky. Dont try and tell us you dont moan for the sake of it.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“What??
Is that Roys fault? Those other teams have not broken down lesser opponents in games. The defensive qualities of these teams should be noted.
Who really thought we'd dominate all of our games the way we have? So many people were complaining about Roy being negative, and he's shown that with the right players, he isn't. That must be upsetting for you, so it's now his fault we dont have an Iniesta.
We have who we have, and we have to do our best with them.”
“What??
Is that Roys fault? Those other teams have not broken down lesser opponents in games. The defensive qualities of these teams should be noted.
Who really thought we'd dominate all of our games the way we have? So many people were complaining about Roy being negative, and he's shown that with the right players, he isn't. That must be upsetting for you, so it's now his fault we dont have an Iniesta.
We have who we have, and we have to do our best with them.”
Why would it be upsetting for me??
I never said it was his fault that we don't have top level calibre players like that that I mentioned, that is more down to the systems at club level.
I only mentioned them in relation to other sides being able to break down defensive sides.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“Why would it be upsetting for me??
I never said it was his fault that we don't have top level calibre players like that that I mentioned, that is more down to the systems at club level.
I only mentioned them in relation to other sides being able to break down defensive sides.”
“Why would it be upsetting for me??
I never said it was his fault that we don't have top level calibre players like that that I mentioned, that is more down to the systems at club level.
I only mentioned them in relation to other sides being able to break down defensive sides.”
Yet when we broke Wales down, you claimed it was luck. When those other teams do it, it is because of their quality.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“We are not Spain, and that should not be used against us.
Roys last two tournaments were dire, due to the players available. We now have a young squad, playing attacking football.
France, and Spain have won games with late goals, and you say they have the players to do that. When we did that, you said we were lucky. Dont try and tell us you dont moan for the sake of it.”
“We are not Spain, and that should not be used against us.
Roys last two tournaments were dire, due to the players available. We now have a young squad, playing attacking football.
France, and Spain have won games with late goals, and you say they have the players to do that. When we did that, you said we were lucky. Dont try and tell us you dont moan for the sake of it.”
If we play poorly am I just supposed to ignore that, and instead say that we played well instead?
I don't moan for the sake if it, I only give out criticism when it is fully deserved, likewise if we play well, then I will say that.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“So would you level that at the French, Spanish and Germans when they've had the same problems, or is it just down to being anti Roy, and one of those people who slag off their own team all the time when they dont win?
That is a common factor in phone ins, and club threads. Most people are moaners when it comes to participating in these things, and can only see the negative.
Mr Bilic on tv said we played very well, and I could see his points, and I respect his view over the moaning minnies of this forum.
I'm happy to say if we play badly, but we didn't. We've played badly in all the tournaments since 96, but so far in this one, we haven't. Can you recall us ever attacking, and dominating games like this in groups? All three of our opponents set themselves up to stop us, including Wales.”
“So would you level that at the French, Spanish and Germans when they've had the same problems, or is it just down to being anti Roy, and one of those people who slag off their own team all the time when they dont win?
That is a common factor in phone ins, and club threads. Most people are moaners when it comes to participating in these things, and can only see the negative.
Mr Bilic on tv said we played very well, and I could see his points, and I respect his view over the moaning minnies of this forum.
I'm happy to say if we play badly, but we didn't. We've played badly in all the tournaments since 96, but so far in this one, we haven't. Can you recall us ever attacking, and dominating games like this in groups? All three of our opponents set themselves up to stop us, including Wales.”
I thought we did in Euro 2004 to a fairly decent extent, the 4-2 win over Croatia being one of the most open England tournament games I can remember. Trouble is we invited both France in the group stage and Portugal in the quarter-finals back into the game and conceded costly late goals.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“If we play poorly am I just supposed to ignore that, and instead say that we played well instead?
I don't moan for the sake if it, I only give out criticism when it is fully deserved, likewise if we play well, then I will say that.”
“If we play poorly am I just supposed to ignore that, and instead say that we played well instead?
I don't moan for the sake if it, I only give out criticism when it is fully deserved, likewise if we play well, then I will say that.”
You said you agreed with Bilic. He said we played well, and that when we play more open sides in the knockout stages, we will do well.
You do moan, and you are doing now.
We dominated all three games, and had some decent chances. The keeper made a couple of good saves, there was one cleared off the line, and some of the blocks they made were impressive.
We dont usually get anything like that in tournaments.
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