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Who is the greatest European footballer of all time??


View Poll Results: Who is the greatest European footballer of all time?
Cristiano Ronaldo 19 21.59%
Franz Beckenbauer 2 2.27%
Ruud Gullet 0 0%
Roberto Baggio 0 0%
Zinedine Zidane 20 22.73%
Eusebio 2 2.27%
Andres Iniesta 1 1.14%
George Best 9 10.23%
Marco van Basten 1 1.14%
Bobby Charlton 0 0%
Franco Baresi 1 1.14%
Michele Platini 6 6.82%
Gerd Muller 0 0%
Johan Cruyff 19 21.59%
Xavi 0 0%
Other 8 9.09%
Voters: 88. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

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Old 30-06-2016, 16:40
FMKK
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Of course I did.
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Old 10-07-2016, 23:19
Thomas007
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Ronaldo's won an international tournament.

Does this dramatically alter the course of the discussion?

For me Zidane was overall a better player. Though Ronaldo deserves his place in history, easily in the top 10 greatest players ever now.
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Old 11-07-2016, 01:26
Georges Grun
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Tbh how many people here have clear memories of Eusebio in real time, or even Beckenbauer?

This is always going to sway in a certain recent direction.
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Old 11-07-2016, 02:06
Pee
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So despite (although clearly through no fault of his own) having very little to do with his team winning today, Ronaldo now suddenly becomes (or cements his position as, if you were already that way inclined) a top 10 player? I don't really understand that one. It's either he was or he wasn't beforehand, because no one will convince me that anything he's done on the pitch during this tournament has elevated his legacy.
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Old 11-07-2016, 02:13
Thomas007
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So despite (although clearly through no fault of his own) having very little to do with his team winning today, Ronaldo now suddenly becomes (or cements his position as, if you were already that way inclined) a top 10 player? I don't really understand that one. It's either he was or he wasn't beforehand, because no one will convince me that anything he's done on the pitch during this tournament has elevated his legacy.
No I agree with you actually, but footballers reputations and their legacies ultimately are decided by the big trophies they win. I don't agree with that, but that's how footballers are (harshly) judged.

My position of Ronaldo doesn't change much either, for me he was in the top 10 anyway, he justs cements that more so I guess, but he's not in the class of Pele or Maradona, or even Messi.

Ronaldo was a passenger at lot of times during this tournament, with occasional brilliance.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:19
Xela M
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Ronaldo is a different type of player though (at least nowadays). Like Henry said, he might not touch the ball or miss countless chances all game, but he will score the decisive goal. That's what he does for Real as well.

He got Portugal to that final by hook or by crook. He didn't play great, but he was there to bail them out in the most important moments of the tournament. I'm happy he won this and has now achieved immortality in Portugal and will cement his place in history
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:14
Stilton Cheesew
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So despite (although clearly through no fault of his own) having very little to do with his team winning today, Ronaldo now suddenly becomes (or cements his position as, if you were already that way inclined) a top 10 player? I don't really understand that one. It's either he was or he wasn't beforehand, because no one will convince me that anything he's done on the pitch during this tournament has elevated his legacy.
He has captained his country to a major tournament win. That aside I agree he was already comfortably at or close to the top but it's another boxed ticked for some I suppose.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:32
Grim Fandango
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I went for Ronaldo.
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:00
Pee
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He has captained his country to a major tournament win. That aside I agree he was already comfortably at or close to the top but it's another boxed ticked for some I suppose.
Well technically it was Nani that actually captained them to the win, and Ronaldo was not exactly stellar before then either. It's funny how the argument has always been that his team's aren't good enough, then when they actually do it without him (again, no reflection on him personally), some are so keen to attribute it to him in any way they can.

Yesterday was the team's achievement IMO, not Ronaldo's.
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:02
celesti
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The tournament won't have done too much for his reputation as a player, but that honours list suddenly has a vital new column.

I don't get to see Real Madrid play much at all in recent seasons, does he play as much of an orthodox striking role for them too?
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:11
Stilton Cheesew
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Well technically it was Nani that actually captained them to the win, and Ronaldo was not exactly stellar before then either. It's funny how the argument has always been that his team's aren't good enough, then when they actually do it without him (again, no reflection on him personally), some are so keen to attribute it to him in any way they can.

Yesterday was the team's achievement IMO, not Ronaldo's.
Not at all, he captained the team throughout the tournament which is what I was meaning. It was always the team achievement no-one can win on their own.

He has now added a major International title to everything else he has achieved in his career which is always nice.

He was already at or close to the top of any list of top players so its not like he needed this extra trophy but some people do put some misguided extra importance on International achievement so its something to put alongside his personal and club accolades in that respect. He was a brilliant player on Sunday morning and he is still a brilliant player this morning regardless though.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:38
Xela M
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Well technically it was Nani that actually captained them to the win, and Ronaldo was not exactly stellar before then either. It's funny how the argument has always been that his team's aren't good enough, then when they actually do it without him (again, no reflection on him personally), some are so keen to attribute it to him in any way they can.

Yesterday was the team's achievement IMO, not Ronaldo's.
It's killing you isn't it Ronaldo is now King of the World

Not at all, he captained the team throughout the tournament which is what I was meaning. It was always the team achievement no-one can win on their own.

He has now added a major International title to everything else he has achieved in his career which is always nice.

He was already at or close to the top of any list of top players so its not like he needed this extra trophy but some people do put some misguided extra importance on International achievement so its something to put alongside his personal and club accolades in that respect. He was a brilliant player on Sunday morning and he is still a brilliant player this morning regardless though.
Ronaldo has won countless trophies and broken even more records during his career, yet last night meant everything to him. I wonder why
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:48
Nova21
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Winning an international tournament is a bigger achievement and event than winning an annual club tournament. Not sure how anyone can argue differently.

And of course what Ronaldo achieved with his team mates will elevate his legacy and standing in the history of the game. I don't see how the anti Ronaldistas can argue against that.... Or come to think of it, how those who say that he doesn't need to perform in an international tournament to strengthen his claims to being an all time great, can argue against it.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:01
shaneomax
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One could now make a very very strong argument for CR7 after last night he has propelled himself into legendary status by winnning a major trophy with Portugal.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:03
Xela M
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Winning an international tournament is a bigger achievement and event than winning an annual club tournament. Not sure how anyone can argue differently.

And of course what Ronaldo achieved with his team mates will elevate his legacy and standing in the history of the game. I don't see how the anti Ronaldistas can argue against that.... Or come to think of it, how those who say that he doesn't need to perform in an international tournament to strengthen his claims to being an all time great, can argue against it.
The voice of reason
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:04
Grim Fandango
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He was already a great, and now he's even greater!
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:20
shaneomax
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Hes an absolute living legend now there us no doubt about that, only the creme de la creme of superstars go on to win major tournaments with their countries, I mean THAT Portugal team lol they did play well last night but without CR7 they probably would not have made it out of the group stages even. A better player than Messi.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:35
Stilton Cheesew
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Or come to think of it, how those who say that he doesn't need to perform in an international tournament to strengthen his claims to being an all time great, can argue against it.
Because he is EXACTLY the same player whether his team mates won after he went off injured or lost. That's why its a plainly stupid judge of a player. He had an average tournament in a team that won one game in 90 mins. He is an incredibly brilliant footballer but not because of the last four weeks, he is an incredibly brilliant footballer because of the last 10 years at the top, performing week in week out and in the CL league against the best sides in the world. However if it makes the people who said he had to win at International level to be "great" shift more awkwardly in their seats while moving their goal posts then Im good with that.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:40
Jamesp84
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Because he is EXACTLY the same player whether his team mates won after he went off injured or lost. That's why its a plainly stupid judge of a player. He had an average tournament in a team that won one game in 90 mins. He is an incredibly brilliant footballer but not because of the last four weeks, he is an incredibly brilliant footballer because of the last 10 years at the top, performing week in week out and in the CL league against the best sides in the world. However if it makes the people who said he had to win at International level to be "great" shift more awkwardly in their seats while moving their goal posts then Im good with that.
That's the highlight of the whole thing for me. Can't wait to see how certain people will spin this one to fit their argument.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:40
Nova21
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Because he is EXACTLY the same player whether his team mates won after he went off injured or lost. That's why its a plainly stupid judge of a player. He had an average tournament in a team that won one game in 90 mins. He is an incredibly brilliant footballer but not because of the last four weeks, he is an incredibly brilliant footballer because of the last 10 years at the top, performing week in week out and in the CL league against the best sides in the world. However if it makes the people who said he had to win at International level to be "great" shift more awkwardly in their seats while moving their goal posts then Im good with that.
So you don't think that this win will elevate his legacy and standing in the history of the game? Which was the exact point that I said.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:51
Meols
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So you don't think that this win will elevate his legacy and standing in the history of the game? Which was the exact point that I said.
I think what you are saying is that its difficult for those who think club football is the ultimate all encompassing benchmark to then come back and use this tournament to now say he has advanced his claims as the greatest European player of all time.

The point being made in reply to this is that Ronaldo had pretty much achieved everything at club level to make him a great and some criticise him for not doing it with Portugal. Now he has a Euro 2016 winners medal and played an instrumental role in them getting it, alongside 120 odd caps and 60 odd goals, it blunts the axe possessed by those wanting to criticise him and means they have to shift their focus elsewhere. Those people are now largely being left to cling to the fact that he left the field after 20 or so minutes.

Fact is his medals and achievements do the talking and I'll certainly put him up there with Zidane, Cruyff, Beckenbauer as far as European footballers are concerned.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:57
Stilton Cheesew
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So you don't think that this win will elevate his legacy and standing in the history of the game? Which was the exact point that I said.
No, or at least it shouldn't. His record over the last decade should speak for itself and had he gone off injured and Portugal lost you would have got a bunch of eejits saying that he wasn't one of the greats based on a freak incident he had absolutely no control over in a career of constant achievement. That's daft. The fact that events that happened when he wasn't even on the pitch is being cited as something that has elevated his status really should be the final nail in the coffin of those that say international tournament football is any sort of barometer of a players ability, standing or greatness in the game.
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Old 11-07-2016, 13:08
Xela M
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For people who are still somehow arguing in circles

Champions League - happens every year. If you're already in one of the 3 best clubs in the world, you already have a good shot at it from the outset.

International trophy - happens every 4 years. Much more difficult to win because you don't have the best players in the world around you and so many little things have to come together for that to happen. It's also much more prestigious.

Why is it so difficult to accept that winning an international trophy with your national team is more special than winning a club trophy? It's like arguing that winning the Olympics shouldn't be more important to a sprinter than winning a World Championship.
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Old 11-07-2016, 13:21
Nova21
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No, or at least it shouldn't. His record over the last decade should speak for itself and had he gone off injured and Portugal lost you would have got a bunch of eejits saying that he wasn't one of the greats based on a freak incident he had absolutely no control over in a career of constant achievement. That's daft. The fact that events that happened when he wasn't even on the pitch is being cited as something that has elevated his status really should be the final nail in the coffin of those that say international tournament football is any sort of barometer of a players ability, standing or greatness in the game.
It's amazing that you are not willing to say that the statement that I said is true. I can't think that anyone who follows sport would say that winning the European championship would not add to an already top players' legacy....

You're a man who's not for conceding an inch. Respect!
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Old 11-07-2016, 13:21
celesti
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International trophies are every two years in Europe, can't be much different in the other confederations.
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