Who would you choose Codeblue?
Next England Manager?
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Originally Posted by MichPlat:
“I'd presume that he isn't the same person with the same half baked beliefs now , some 17 years later . Imagine what was going through your mind 17 years ago
”
“I'd presume that he isn't the same person with the same half baked beliefs now , some 17 years later . Imagine what was going through your mind 17 years ago
”
Well not quite in the same way I should hope but Hoddle did say he believed in reincarnation as part of his beliefs which everyone would probably accept.
But the comments were a step too far.
Of course Hoddle would probably not be allowed to make such comments now with all the PR people around.
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“But these Welsh players that everyone is getting so exited about as just as "overpaid" in just as "over-rated" a league so that doesn't really stack up. To say nothing of the number of foreign players in the league who are also at the Euro's.
England have good players. People can slate them and have a go at them but they are not bad players and that has been the case for years. The problem with England is the complete lack of any sort of coherent plan. I saw someone speak very well about this (Giggs?) and they were saying that England dont ever look to bring groups through the ranks together and dont take the youth and U21 tournaments seriously enough. Players drop out at the drop of a hat or are fast-tracked to the senior squad whereas in other countries they are allowed to develop so by the time they are 22 as group they have been to tournaments and are used to it. Obviously you will have players coming in and dropping out along the way but a core coming through allows you to do what Germany did and go from a struggling side to World Champions. Instead what England do is simply change the manager, win a few games and think its all fixed, then reach a major Championship and are left disappointed.”
“But these Welsh players that everyone is getting so exited about as just as "overpaid" in just as "over-rated" a league so that doesn't really stack up. To say nothing of the number of foreign players in the league who are also at the Euro's.
England have good players. People can slate them and have a go at them but they are not bad players and that has been the case for years. The problem with England is the complete lack of any sort of coherent plan. I saw someone speak very well about this (Giggs?) and they were saying that England dont ever look to bring groups through the ranks together and dont take the youth and U21 tournaments seriously enough. Players drop out at the drop of a hat or are fast-tracked to the senior squad whereas in other countries they are allowed to develop so by the time they are 22 as group they have been to tournaments and are used to it. Obviously you will have players coming in and dropping out along the way but a core coming through allows you to do what Germany did and go from a struggling side to World Champions. Instead what England do is simply change the manager, win a few games and think its all fixed, then reach a major Championship and are left disappointed.”
Exactly. Young players get a full cap now after literally a handful of games without even establishing themselves in their club side. It reeks of desperation. Play 5 games in the prem, lets give him a call up to the England squad. There is no gradual progression which is what needs to happen.
Players are lauded as the next big thing for England time and time again. Walcott aged just 16 in the world cup squad, and Rashford this year when he shouldnt be anywhere near the squad.
If Hoddle made the same comments as England manager today, he'd be out of his job so much quicker than he was then.
Originally Posted by pete137:
“Exactly. Young players get a full cap now after literally a handful of games without even establishing themselves in their club side. It reeks of desperation. Play 5 games in the prem, lets give him a call up to the England squad. There is no gradual progression which is what needs to happen.
Players are lauded as the next big thing for England time and time again. Walcott aged just 16 in the world cup squad, and Rashford this year when he shouldnt be anywhere near the squad.”
“Exactly. Young players get a full cap now after literally a handful of games without even establishing themselves in their club side. It reeks of desperation. Play 5 games in the prem, lets give him a call up to the England squad. There is no gradual progression which is what needs to happen.
Players are lauded as the next big thing for England time and time again. Walcott aged just 16 in the world cup squad, and Rashford this year when he shouldnt be anywhere near the squad.”
Rashford is a good players and should definitely be in the England team!Pele was 16 when he first appeared at the World Cup, Maldini was 16 when he first made the Italy team etc etc (can't be bothered to look up all the other stars) but 18 is not too young to play in a tournament!
Originally Posted by celesti:
“If Hoddle made the same comments as England manager today, he'd be out of his job so much quicker than he was then.”
“If Hoddle made the same comments as England manager today, he'd be out of his job so much quicker than he was then.”
exactly what i said above.
Imagine Hoddle, the england manager, at a pr event with children playing disability football and explaining to them god is punishing them in this life for mistakes in a former life!
Hoddle is lucky that he had a short and unsuccessful career in football afterwards, when he sould have been gone from the game and punditry. It pains me that he is still on TV eve, and its shocking that people are considering him for the top job again.
Who next, big racist ron?
Originally Posted by Xela M:
“ Rashford is a good players and should definitely be in the England team!
Pele was 16 when he first appeared at the World Cup, Maldini was 16 when he first made the Italy team etc etc (can't be bothered to look up all the other stars) but 18 is not too young to play in a tournament!”
“
Rashford is a good players and should definitely be in the England team!Pele was 16 when he first appeared at the World Cup, Maldini was 16 when he first made the Italy team etc etc (can't be bothered to look up all the other stars) but 18 is not too young to play in a tournament!”
I dont think using a player "coming through" in 1958 is a relevant example. Walcott is not Pele.
The point is as soon as a player plays a small handful of games in the league there are calls for international call ups rather than allowing players to develop through the ranks and come through in groups.
Originally Posted by codeblue:
“exactly what i said above.
Imagine Hoddle, the england manager, at a pr event with children playing disability football and explaining to them god is punishing them in this life for mistakes in a former life!
Hoddle is lucky that he had a short and unsuccessful career in football afterwards, when he sould have been gone from the game and punditry. It pains me that he is still on TV eve, and its shocking that people are considering him for the top job again.
Who next, big racist ron?”
“exactly what i said above.
Imagine Hoddle, the england manager, at a pr event with children playing disability football and explaining to them god is punishing them in this life for mistakes in a former life!
Hoddle is lucky that he had a short and unsuccessful career in football afterwards, when he sould have been gone from the game and punditry. It pains me that he is still on TV eve, and its shocking that people are considering him for the top job again.
Who next, big racist ron?”
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“Who would you choose Codeblue?”
“Who would you choose Codeblue?”
Who would you like to see appointed?
Originally Posted by Xela M:
“ Rashford is a good players and should definitely be in the England team!
Pele was 16 when he first appeared at the World Cup, Maldini was 16 when he first made the Italy team etc etc (can't be bothered to look up all the other stars) but 18 is not too young to play in a tournament!”
“
Rashford is a good players and should definitely be in the England team!Pele was 16 when he first appeared at the World Cup, Maldini was 16 when he first made the Italy team etc etc (can't be bothered to look up all the other stars) but 18 is not too young to play in a tournament!”
Although Pele and Maldini were rather special players , I'm not sure Rashford is as good as they were at that age and I'm not sure he will ever hit their dizzy heights .
People raved about his 5 minutes play and some gave him man of the match but realistically I seem to recall that he made a couple of decent runs , then he ran into the box and tripped over the ball then won a corner , rushed to take it himself ... rushed the corner and messed up .
Maldini got his first full Italy cap at 19, but that was after three proper seasons of club football. As 'can't miss' a prospect as he was he still had to do his stint first.
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“Who would you like to see appointed?”
“Who would you like to see appointed?”
I would draw up a top 10 list of the best current managers in the world, and go down that list step by step.
We should go all out for Gus Hiddink.
People we should aviod at all costs:
Hoddle, Klinsmann, Redknapp, (any former player, like Shearer, Hoddle, Lapmpard, Rio, Scholes, Neville, Pearce, Bechham, Gerrard), Southgate & Hoddle.
We need to also avoid current PL english managers with court injunctions, who of course i cannot talk about.
Originally Posted by codeblue:
“I would draw up a top 10 list of the best current managers in the world, and go down that list step by step.
We should go all out for Gus Hiddink.
People we should aviod at all costs:
Hoddle, Klinsmann, Redknapp, (any former player, like Shearer, Hoddle, Lapmpard, Rio, Scholes, Neville, Pearce, Bechham, Gerrard), Southgate & Hoddle.
We need to also avoid current PL english managers with court injunctions, who of course i cannot talk about.”
“I would draw up a top 10 list of the best current managers in the world, and go down that list step by step.
We should go all out for Gus Hiddink.
People we should aviod at all costs:
Hoddle, Klinsmann, Redknapp, (any former player, like Shearer, Hoddle, Lapmpard, Rio, Scholes, Neville, Pearce, Bechham, Gerrard), Southgate & Hoddle.
We need to also avoid current PL english managers with court injunctions, who of course i cannot talk about.”
You seem very willing to name the people what shouldn't be appointed and less willing to focus on those that should.
Are the current top 10 managers in the world likely to leave their jobs for the England job, given that they are probably in high profile prestigious posts already? I would suggest that is unlikely?
In Hiddink you have named a man of 70 who doesn't really fall into your own requirements?
I remember a good few years ago, I think it was the England under 20 side which reached their respective tournament finals, when Rooney was eligible to play for them, but did we pick him to stand a good chance of winning that tournament? No, we didn't as he was already in the Senior side, and so that would have been a step back, rather than having a decent chance of silverware at international level, and thus getting players used to perhaps winning something, we once again put individuals ahead of a team doing well.
We are just stuck in seeking individuals being far more important than what is best for each team, if that continues, as I expect it to, then we will continue to struggle for any sort of top level wins.
We are just stuck in seeking individuals being far more important than what is best for each team, if that continues, as I expect it to, then we will continue to struggle for any sort of top level wins.
Rooney was a teenage sensation, the likes of which we hadn't seen since Owen and then a long time before that. He had performed at an elite level for a couple of years for England. He is not a good example of someone who shouldn't have been promoted to a full England international.
Originally Posted by Nova21:
“Rooney was a teenage sensation, the likes of which we hadn't seen since Owen and then a long time before that. He had performed at an elite level for a couple of years for England. He is not a good example of someone who shouldn't have been promoted to a full England international.”
“Rooney was a teenage sensation, the likes of which we hadn't seen since Owen and then a long time before that. He had performed at an elite level for a couple of years for England. He is not a good example of someone who shouldn't have been promoted to a full England international.”
What exactly would have been wrong with helping the Under 20's (I think it was that group, my mind is a tad bit fuzzy), from winning an international title??
We have seen for example Spanish players willing to drop back down (if that is an appropriate term to use) a level to help a group win something, why do we think we are above doing such things??
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“You seem very willing to name the people what shouldn't be appointed and less willing to focus on those that should.
Are the current top 10 managers in the world likely to leave their jobs for the England job, given that they are probably in high profile prestigious posts already? I would suggest that is unlikely?
In Hiddink you have named a man of 70 who doesn't really fall into your own requirements?”
“You seem very willing to name the people what shouldn't be appointed and less willing to focus on those that should.
Are the current top 10 managers in the world likely to leave their jobs for the England job, given that they are probably in high profile prestigious posts already? I would suggest that is unlikely?
In Hiddink you have named a man of 70 who doesn't really fall into your own requirements?”
We are discussing people in the media who are being speculated on - and it is easy to see why they would be terrible.
Out of the game for 10 years
Ridiculous hateful religious beliefs and intollerance
Madness & superstition on the coaching field
Dodgy injections of players before games
Injunctions in the press
Zero managerial / coaching experience
Very ill, unable to work
People who only talk about "passion" and not about "skill & strategy"
These are all good reasons NOT to hire the people suggested.
My choice, Hiddink, is 69, thats the only downside. However international management is hardly a day to day job. Its a retirement job and i think he could go 2 years (all managers whould be hired for)
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“You seem very willing to name the people what shouldn't be appointed and less willing to focus on those that should.
Are the current top 10 managers in the world likely to leave their jobs for the England job, given that they are probably in high profile prestigious posts already? I would suggest that is unlikely?
In Hiddink you have named a man of 70 who doesn't really fall into your own requirements?”
“You seem very willing to name the people what shouldn't be appointed and less willing to focus on those that should.
Are the current top 10 managers in the world likely to leave their jobs for the England job, given that they are probably in high profile prestigious posts already? I would suggest that is unlikely?
In Hiddink you have named a man of 70 who doesn't really fall into your own requirements?”
Hiddink. Bloody hell. After all the complaining he's done, he comes up with that.
I thought the idea was to build for a strong future, with someone who will be able to stay around long enough to help that, although the media witch hunt will start after the first defeat.
Klinsmann would be my first choice, followed by Hoddle.
What Hoddle said years ago should be forgiven, and I think he has mose sense in that respect now. He has worked a lot with younger players the last few years, and knows the game. He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.
People have complained that we haven't had a manager that bounces about on the touchline all game, but the Spanish manager never did that, nor did Sir Alf, and they did okay.
Originally Posted by batdude_uk1:
“What exactly would have been wrong with helping the Under 20's (I think it was that group, my mind is a tad bit fuzzy), from winning an international title??
We have seen for example Spanish players willing to drop back down (if that is an appropriate term to use) a level to help a group win something, why do we think we are above doing such things??”
“What exactly would have been wrong with helping the Under 20's (I think it was that group, my mind is a tad bit fuzzy), from winning an international title??
We have seen for example Spanish players willing to drop back down (if that is an appropriate term to use) a level to help a group win something, why do we think we are above doing such things??”
I think there will always be the odd player who can go straight to the top based on playing for a top club team for a couple of years at a very young age, it's looking for them to be given international recognition as a matter of course after a handful of games that I'm talking about.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“Hiddink. Bloody hell. After all the complaining he's done, he comes up with that.
I thought the idea was to build for a strong future, with someone who will be able to stay around long enough to help that, although the media witch hunt will start after the first defeat.
Klinsmann would be my first choice, followed by Hoddle.
What Hoddle said years ago should be forgiven, and I think he has mose sense in that respect now. He has worked a lot with younger players the last few years, and knows the game. He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.
People have complained that we haven't had a manager that bounces about on the touchline all game, but the Spanish manager never did that, nor did Sir Alf, and they did okay.”
“Hiddink. Bloody hell. After all the complaining he's done, he comes up with that.
I thought the idea was to build for a strong future, with someone who will be able to stay around long enough to help that, although the media witch hunt will start after the first defeat.
Klinsmann would be my first choice, followed by Hoddle.
What Hoddle said years ago should be forgiven, and I think he has mose sense in that respect now. He has worked a lot with younger players the last few years, and knows the game. He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.
People have complained that we haven't had a manager that bounces about on the touchline all game, but the Spanish manager never did that, nor did Sir Alf, and they did okay.”
Im not sure how you forgive Hoddle for something that as an actual belief?
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.”
“He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.”
I cannot express just how far your statement is away from the truth.
One of the things Eileen performed for England (and hoddle in his career) is "distance healing".
That is exactly what you think it is, "healing" things like broken feet metatarsals, groin strains, hamstrings, broken legs "at a distance". As in praying for them to get better, or a witchcraft style ritual. Is that what a sports psychologist does?
Eileen also acted as a "medium". Thats exactly what you think it is. Alble to contact the spirit world and act as an interface between players and their dead relatives and friends. As in being able to channel the spirit of bobby robson for advice. Is that what a sports psychologist does?
Hoddle picks the team based on Eileens feelings about them, and players are forced to have sessins with her. Those who do not, are kicked out. Is that what a sports psychologist does?
Hoddle tells the world that his "one big mistake was not taking Eileen to France for thw world cup".
Here is a quote from Ray Parlour:
"I had a bad calf and Glenn sent me to see her. I sat in this seat, she placed her hands on my shoulders – I had long hair back then – and I just said: “short back and sides, please, Eileen”.she told her husband and it was suddenly in The Sun! I never got picked for England again.
Here is a quote from her:
"I discovered I was a healer at the age of 32. I was visiting a friend who had arthritis and her hand was deformed and swollen. In an effort to comfort her I leaned forward and took her hand and as she was talking I thought "please God, make her hand better". Almost instantly she snatched her hand away - I thought I had hurt her, because her hand was so swollen. But she said: "What did you do? The pain has gone." and she burst into tears."
Is that what a sports psychologist does?
"I can interpret dreams. I find they are usually straightforward and the meanings very clear. I sometimes get visions of a person's future when I am healing them, but it is not common. If I do get a vision it is always for the good of the person. But I stress I am a healer, not a medium."
Is that what a sports psychologist does?
"there is scientific proof that healing works, and that healers are already working alongside GPs in the NHS."
No there is not.
"I do not believe in evolution. I believe that God created our spirits and our bodies."
I see.
"I have given my cats and dogs healing on many occasions."
She can heal pets as well, Is that what a sports psychologist does?
Can you see the difference between a faith healer and a sports psychologist now?
Originally Posted by Stilton Cheesew:
“I think there will always be the odd player who can go straight to the top based on playing for a top club team for a couple of years at a very young age, it's looking for them to be given international recognition as a matter of course after a handful of games that I'm talking about.”
“I think there will always be the odd player who can go straight to the top based on playing for a top club team for a couple of years at a very young age, it's looking for them to be given international recognition as a matter of course after a handful of games that I'm talking about.”
It is about getting that winning mentality, and of being used to tournament football, that should be more important than an individual, the team should come first, and be foremost in The FA's structure.
The development of a winning culture at all levels should be paramount, the more we win at younger levels, the more we can get that ingrained in the teams, the better it will be in the long-term.
I'd be cool with Hiddink, his tournament record beats most managers we've had before and most we could offer the job to.
I wasn't entirely serious about Drewery being like a sports psychologist, but in some ways she did help some players in a similar way. Others would have nothing to do with it, and going back, they wouldn't have considered a psychologist as a serious option.
I dont know whether Hoddle still believes the things he did back then with regards to religion, but if he was taught such nonsense in a religious sense, it's no dafter than many other widespread beliefs in religion, and we wouldn't stop most of those having jobs for being religious.
He certainly shouldn't have said such a stupid thing out loud, but he knows his football, and he does seem more mature now.
I dont know whether Hoddle still believes the things he did back then with regards to religion, but if he was taught such nonsense in a religious sense, it's no dafter than many other widespread beliefs in religion, and we wouldn't stop most of those having jobs for being religious.
He certainly shouldn't have said such a stupid thing out loud, but he knows his football, and he does seem more mature now.
Interesting that Hoddle should be forgiven as it was ages ago. I guess in 10 years JT will be in with a shout based on that.
He's yesterday's man. He's had his chance. Let's not turn the clock.
I would definately give it to Allardyce. Takes no nonsense and if some of the precious players don't want to play for him then find ones who will.
This tournament has proved that if you are a fully committed team then you can succeed.
He's yesterday's man. He's had his chance. Let's not turn the clock.
I would definately give it to Allardyce. Takes no nonsense and if some of the precious players don't want to play for him then find ones who will.
This tournament has proved that if you are a fully committed team then you can succeed.
Originally Posted by Deep Purple:
“Hiddink. Bloody hell. After all the complaining he's done, he comes up with that.
I thought the idea was to build for a strong future, with someone who will be able to stay around long enough to help that, although the media witch hunt will start after the first defeat.
Klinsmann would be my first choice, followed by Hoddle.
What Hoddle said years ago should be forgiven, and I think he has mose sense in that respect now. He has worked a lot with younger players the last few years, and knows the game. He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.
People have complained that we haven't had a manager that bounces about on the touchline all game, but the Spanish manager never did that, nor did Sir Alf, and they did okay.”
“Hiddink. Bloody hell. After all the complaining he's done, he comes up with that.
I thought the idea was to build for a strong future, with someone who will be able to stay around long enough to help that, although the media witch hunt will start after the first defeat.
Klinsmann would be my first choice, followed by Hoddle.
What Hoddle said years ago should be forgiven, and I think he has mose sense in that respect now. He has worked a lot with younger players the last few years, and knows the game. He was mocked for his use of Drewery, who in reality was an equivalent of the modern sports psychologist which is someone used all the time now.
People have complained that we haven't had a manager that bounces about on the touchline all game, but the Spanish manager never did that, nor did Sir Alf, and they did okay.”
I don't see how Hiddink is a bad choice at all. A vastly experienced and successful manager at all levels. I know people generally think it should be someone younger for a long term project but if there aren't really any quality candidates that fit the bill then it makes perfect sense to take on someone proven like him for a couple of years while a few prospects like Howe get the chance to mature.
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