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Should Rooney still be England captain?


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Old 01-07-2016, 12:57
Xela M
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Of course he should stay as captain. He's the bedrock on which our success is built.

Once he gets into his forties he should drop back into defence, before finally becoming goalkeeper.
Made me laugh

but I'm easily pleased
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Old 01-07-2016, 13:53
TheSloth
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Forget club bias or banter, his second half display once faced with a significant challenge told me everything. Did he get his team going? No. Did he lead by example? No. Did he let the situation affect him? Yes.

He put the effort in, of course, but lacked the behaviours to suggest he's a viable captain if we really want to move on. The fact he was even in thee team as a stand-in (and distinctly average) midfield player was bad enough - like many, Hodgson hoped he would somehow morph back into the fearless, free-styling Rooney of 2004 and that was never going to happen sadly. Since the heights of 2004, his output and resilience at the top level of international football has been poor.

We should move on and start putting square pegs in square holes and create a good team of average players rather than an average team of good players.
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Old 01-07-2016, 14:07
Choc_villes
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Forget club bias or banter, his second half display once faced with a significant challenge told me everything. Did he get his team going? No. Did he lead by example? No. Did he let the situation affect him? Yes.

He put the effort in, of course, but lacked the behaviours to suggest he's a viable captain if we really want to move on. The fact he was even in thee team as a stand-in (and distinctly average) midfield player was bad enough - like many, Hodgson hoped he would somehow morph back into the fearless, free-styling Rooney of 2004 and that was never going to happen sadly. Since the heights of 2004, his output and resilience at the top level of international football has been poor.

We should move on and start putting square pegs in square holes and create a good team of average players rather than an average team of good players.
This.
Well said. The only point that you could be brought up on would be his output, as has got himself to the top of the scoring charts for his country by scoring outside of tournaments.
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Old 01-07-2016, 14:17
Meols
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Forget club bias or banter, his second half display once faced with a significant challenge told me everything. Did he get his team going? No. Did he lead by example? No. Did he let the situation affect him? Yes.

He put the effort in, of course, but lacked the behaviours to suggest he's a viable captain if we really want to move on. The fact he was even in thee team as a stand-in (and distinctly average) midfield player was bad enough - like many, Hodgson hoped he would somehow morph back into the fearless, free-styling Rooney of 2004 and that was never going to happen sadly. Since the heights of 2004, his output and resilience at the top level of international football has been poor.

We should move on and start putting square pegs in square holes and create a good team of average players rather than an average team of good players.
Round of applause from me for that.
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Old 01-07-2016, 15:01
Meols
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Who has the most England caps after Rooney? If Rooney is still in the team, it makes sense to leave him as captain.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't make your captain undroppable. No one's position should be guaranteed
And all I'm saying is you ideally want someone who's going to start matches. Little point naming a captain who's going to be continually on the bench.
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Old 01-07-2016, 16:06
TheSloth
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This.
Well said. The only point that you could be brought up on would be his output, as has got himself to the top of the scoring charts for his country by scoring outside of tournaments.
That's why I said top level international football - meaning tournament football. His goals record is more a testament to longevity - worth commending.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:05
SwanGirl
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I don't mean to rub this in but you saw a real captain in action tonight in Ashley Williams. We go one nil down but there's no panic or 'Oh my God what the hell do we do?, we get a corner and up steps our captain and brings us back into the game. Considering how experienced Rooney is I was expecting to see him get very vocal and make an effort to try and gee the players up a bit but there was none of that, and this isn't coming from someone who 'hates' Rooney.

I just think that perhaps giving him the captaincy wasn't the best thing, it can be more of a hindrance to someone than a help. We gave Aaron Ramsey the captains armband for Wales years ago and he clearly could not cope with the role so it was passed onto Ashley Williams, I think Rooney might actually do better without it to be honest.
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:20
Xela M
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I don't mean to rub this in but you saw a real captain in action tonight in Ashley Williams. We go one nil down but there's no panic or 'Oh my God what the hell do we do?, we get a corner and up steps our captain and brings us back into the game. Considering how experienced Rooney is I was expecting to see him get very vocal and make an effort to try and gee the players up a bit but there was none of that, and this isn't coming from someone who 'hates' Rooney.

I just think that perhaps giving him the captaincy wasn't the best thing, it can be more of a hindrance to someone than a help. We gave Aaron Ramsey the captains armband for Wales years ago and he clearly could not cope with the role so it was passed onto Ashley Williams, I think Rooney might actually do better without it to be honest.
Wales also had a plan and faith in their manager, which England clearly did not.

But yeah, Rooney is not a man for tough occasions. His corner against Italy at the last World Cup in a crucial moment of the game showed that
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:15
Jamesp84
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A corner shows that he isn't captaincy material?
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:23
TheMunch
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A corner shows that he isn't captaincy material?
Explains why Gerrard never made it as Liverpool captain. He was usually crap at corners.
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:42
Xela M
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A corner shows that he isn't captaincy material?
It's not about the corner itself. It was such an important moment in a tight game that at that stage could have gone either way. Then your captain steps up and does this... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlvknSq5t0c

It was demoralizing.
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:55
Jamesp84
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So demoralising that I don't recall anyone ever mentioning it, until now.
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:58
Meols
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I think Pele hit the side netting once.

And they call him the greatest player we've ever seen. If proof were needed...
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:08
Xela M
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So demoralising that I don't recall anyone ever mentioning it, until now.
Err... Did you not have access to the Internet in 2014? The Internet practically exploded with memes of Pirlo's free kick and Rooney's corner. But the point is not the corner itself, but the fact that at the most crucial moment in the game, you cannot rely on Rooney to take control on the pitch and make a difference
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:21
Meols
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Referencing a Pirlo free kick is yet another example of that poster using threads on here for pure self indulgence and not the topic in hand.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:22
Jamesp84
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Err... Did you not have access to the Internet in 2014? The Internet practically exploded with memes of Pirlo's free kick and Rooney's corner. But the point is not the corner itself, but the fact that at the most crucial moment in the game, you cannot rely on Rooney to take control on the pitch and make a difference
Loosely translated as "I've picked a stupid example to try and illustrate my point. But hey, at least I managed to shoehorn in another reference to Italy and Andrea bloody Pirlo"

Edit: What Meols said!
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:35
Meols
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I don't mean to rub this in but you saw a real captain in action tonight in Ashley Williams. We go one nil down but there's no panic or 'Oh my God what the hell do we do?, we get a corner and up steps our captain and brings us back into the game. Considering how experienced Rooney is I was expecting to see him get very vocal and make an effort to try and gee the players up a bit but there was none of that, and this isn't coming from someone who 'hates' Rooney.

I just think that perhaps giving him the captaincy wasn't the best thing, it can be more of a hindrance to someone than a help. We gave Aaron Ramsey the captains armband for Wales years ago and he clearly could not cope with the role so it was passed onto Ashley Williams, I think Rooney might actually do better without it to be honest.
That's not rubbing it in at all, I totally agree with you. He is a natural leader and inspires those around him. Belgium would have loved him at centre half last night. He's a natural at lifting people. Rooney isn't. But then no other England player seems to be either.

Ashley Williams is almost another manager on the pitch. You could easily see him managing the Welsh side one day.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:54
DirtyBarrySpeed
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It's not about the corner itself. It was such an important moment in a tight game that at that stage could have gone either way. Then your captain steps up and does this... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlvknSq5t0c

It was demoralizing.
That moment wasn't any more important than the other 72 minutes England had to equalise. There were plenty of missed chances and awful passes throughout that time.
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