I see so many people writing this here and on other forums but they rarely give examples. I know from the very beginning the other housemates found him boring but where have they suddenly decided he is manipulative and sly. Have I missed something?
Andy : How is he being manipulative and sly?
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I agree if anything he's just the opposite and if he thinks something has to say it.
If they said they found him a bit pompous I could see where they were coming from as while I genuinly think he doesn't mean to he can come across like that.
If they said they found him a bit pompous I could see where they were coming from as while I genuinly think he doesn't mean to he can come across like that.
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“I agree if anything he's just the opposite and if he thinks something has to say it.
If they said they found him a bit pompous I could see where they were coming from as while I genuinly think he doesn't mean to he can come across like that.”
“I agree if anything he's just the opposite and if he thinks something has to say it.
If they said they found him a bit pompous I could see where they were coming from as while I genuinly think he doesn't mean to he can come across like that.”
I agree, he is a bit pompous, he has the look of a startled rabbit caught in the headlights when he hears or sees something he disagrees with. I don't know how old he is but he has the demeanour of an old gentleman
but I do like him
I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.
Originally Posted by KT_Dog:
“I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.”
“I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.”
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
Originally Posted by BusyV:
“I see so many people writing this here and on other forums but they rarely give examples. I know from the very beginning the other housemates found him boring but where have they suddenly decided he is manipulative and sly. Have I missed something?”
“I see so many people writing this here and on other forums but they rarely give examples. I know from the very beginning the other housemates found him boring but where have they suddenly decided he is manipulative and sly. Have I missed something?
”
I think that his journalistic training means that he doesn't take anything at face value and he probes to get all points of view to get at the truth. This is something that the likes of Lateysha resents. She is busy running the bedroom bitches gang and as far as she is concerned she is the leader and what she says goes.
Some of Andy's efforts have been clumsy but I think that his heart is in the right place.
Originally Posted by KT_Dog:
“I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.”
“I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.”
Good points and I think the reason he did not tell Jason about Charlie is because when he asked Charlie she denied it so I suppose he assumed Lateysha was telling little porkie pies but I certainly agree with you that he is not great at getting his point across. I just think he is like a square peg that does not fit in a round hole in there
Andy : How is he being manipulative and sly? I don't think so, imo he is finding it hard to get along with some of the chavs/ loud mouths that is in there this year, he obviously have little in common with most of them.
I think the housemates are suspicious of him because he is intelligent and this has become that they think he is manipulative. He doesn't get angry or lose his temper in an argument he just tries to calmly put his point across and the housemates don't like that.
I do think he doesn't always put his point across in the best way, as Jason said to him last night. I think he does things with good intentions but often misreads a situation.
I do think he doesn't always put his point across in the best way, as Jason said to him last night. I think he does things with good intentions but often misreads a situation.
I agree. There's noting remotely sly or manipulative about him, but he wants the truth to come through and spends some time and energy ferretting it out. He's always going to run into problems with someone like Lateysha because she just doesn't listen! No matter what anyone tries to say to her, she always interrupts and shouts them down, so the only opinion she ever REALLY hears is her own!
It's a head scratcher. I mean, he's saying stuff to people's faces which we're told is very important but he's not shouting and screeching, wailing or swearing like a docker so something must be afoot, right?
His approach is so foreign in there - but would be the norm in my everyday life - it's automatically assumed to be suspicious.
His way would be normal to me but, I dunno, maybe we're doing it all wrong.
I suppose it doesn't help that he comes across as very serious, quite humourless, so they can't relate to each other at all so that makes it easy for the coven to label him patronising when really all he's doing is stating the truth as he sees it without the drama.
I can understand why he seems no fun in there - there's not really anyone for him to relate to. Very bad house for him. He's a round peg in a square hole. He doesn't really stand a chance.
His approach is so foreign in there - but would be the norm in my everyday life - it's automatically assumed to be suspicious.
His way would be normal to me but, I dunno, maybe we're doing it all wrong.
I suppose it doesn't help that he comes across as very serious, quite humourless, so they can't relate to each other at all so that makes it easy for the coven to label him patronising when really all he's doing is stating the truth as he sees it without the drama.
I can understand why he seems no fun in there - there's not really anyone for him to relate to. Very bad house for him. He's a round peg in a square hole. He doesn't really stand a chance.
Originally Posted by KT_Dog
I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.
^ This. He might not be deliberately trying to come across this way, but unfortunately he is.
To also add, if i remember correctly, this started with how he felt about Lateysha's answer in regard to Jason being a game player, but then escalated, as he came into the room, with Lateysha, Sam, Alex and Ryan to talk confront them about their whispering. He has jumped from one thing to a
next. Lateysha was visibly upset and decided to add fuel to the fire. I am not surprised why the three of them went off at him at once, as he took that approach to come and yalk to them at once and start accusing. Whether he was wrong or right about a situation, he should have dealt with his situation with Lateysha first, then the whispering, as emotions where still high.
He did leave out vital bits of information, regarding his conversation with Lateysha and "forgot" to tell Jason about it. Lateysha could have told Jason where she got that information from but didnt and so took the heat for what Charlie originally said.
If you are going to find out information in order to help your friend, maybe he should have told Jason everything!
I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.
^ This. He might not be deliberately trying to come across this way, but unfortunately he is.
To also add, if i remember correctly, this started with how he felt about Lateysha's answer in regard to Jason being a game player, but then escalated, as he came into the room, with Lateysha, Sam, Alex and Ryan to talk confront them about their whispering. He has jumped from one thing to a
next. Lateysha was visibly upset and decided to add fuel to the fire. I am not surprised why the three of them went off at him at once, as he took that approach to come and yalk to them at once and start accusing. Whether he was wrong or right about a situation, he should have dealt with his situation with Lateysha first, then the whispering, as emotions where still high.
He did leave out vital bits of information, regarding his conversation with Lateysha and "forgot" to tell Jason about it. Lateysha could have told Jason where she got that information from but didnt and so took the heat for what Charlie originally said.
If you are going to find out information in order to help your friend, maybe he should have told Jason everything!
I don't think he is sly or manipulative or bad at getting his point across. I think the problem is that the other housemates don't seem to be able to cope with somebody who can deal with a confrontation in a calm and measured manner.
Andy's problem during whisper-gate was that Latesha claimed to be labelling Jason a game player but she couldn't think of a reason why. Andy knew this to be untrue, and felt as if his closest ally in the house, Jason, deserved to know why, due to a conversation he had overhead previously. Rather than shouting and screaming at Latesha (which is what a lot of housemates would have done) or burying his head altogether (which would bring on allegations of him being two faced and risk his friendship with Jason) he took the steps to speak to Latesha, and then Charley, regarding the conversation he just heard, to ensure that he was fully informed when he went to Jason. Between all of this, Latesha took it upon herself to broadcast this to the entire house, rather than say "Yes actually, that stuck in my brain" and own her decision and back down.
It does show a lack of judgement on Andy's behalf - being a journalist, he should have know that the people he is living with probably wouldn't react nicely to what he was doing.
Andy's problem during whisper-gate was that Latesha claimed to be labelling Jason a game player but she couldn't think of a reason why. Andy knew this to be untrue, and felt as if his closest ally in the house, Jason, deserved to know why, due to a conversation he had overhead previously. Rather than shouting and screaming at Latesha (which is what a lot of housemates would have done) or burying his head altogether (which would bring on allegations of him being two faced and risk his friendship with Jason) he took the steps to speak to Latesha, and then Charley, regarding the conversation he just heard, to ensure that he was fully informed when he went to Jason. Between all of this, Latesha took it upon herself to broadcast this to the entire house, rather than say "Yes actually, that stuck in my brain" and own her decision and back down.
It does show a lack of judgement on Andy's behalf - being a journalist, he should have know that the people he is living with probably wouldn't react nicely to what he was doing.
Originally Posted by qwerty_1234:
“I don't think he is sly or manipulative or bad at getting his point across.”
“I don't think he is sly or manipulative or bad at getting his point across.”
Well I was the one who suggested he was bad at getting his point across, so I'll explain my thinking on that (since I'm also bad at it obviously!)
Whisper-Gate boiled down to two things that were troubling Andy. One was the more present problem of his friend being upset. The other was the underlying problem of 'talking behind peoples backs' generally... something he'd been on the receiving end of himself.
As I mentioned on another thread at the time, what he needed to say (and was trying to say) was:
"Lateysha shouldn't call him a game-player to his face then tell him a false reason for why she'd done that, not if she's already told everyone behind his back the real reason. People end up confused and hurt when that happens. It's happened to me and it's happened to most of us. If we all stop doing it then nobody will get hurt."
But he didn't say that, if you watch it back or read the transcript you'll see he went down a considerable number of cul-de-sacs and roundabouts just to express that rather straight-forward thought. Consequently nobody understood him (including me at the time) and everyone took it as an attack on them. Lateysha and Sam both concluded he was trying to turn the house against them!
Now whilst I accept that Latyesha, Sam and Ryan aren't especially bright individuals, I still maintain that if he didn't dance around what he's trying to say so much (and this isn't the only instance) he'd stand a much better chance of getting them to engage with him on a topic.
To be clear though. Sly? No.
Originally Posted by KT_Dog:
“I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.”
“I briefly fell into the 'sly' camp the other day, following "whisper-gate", because when I watched it play out on the episode itself it did come heavily across that way - as things sometimes do when they rapidly pass before your eyes without pause.
I saw him sitting in the smoking area discussing with Lateysha the fact she DID think Jason was a game player because Charlie told her, but she couldn't say that during the task because of the fall out that would come from it... Andy himself then replied, "Yes that would be like throwing a hand grenade in the house"...
...he then went off to tell various other people what she'd really said, under the guise of asking their opinion on the matter, before confronting her again - orchestrating a row with her and the fellow whisperers - then heading off to Jason and declaring he now feels he should just tell him everything because 'the way they just spoke to me I owe them no loyalty' - so he told him that Lateysha had already said earlier he was a game player and that when she said it in the task she obviously meant it. He then stopped just short of confirming Charlie had been the one who put the idea in her head, despite Jason angling for the information and instead informed him he should go and talk to Lateysha.... And thus the handgrenade he himself had predicted had its pin pulled and Lateysha was left holding it. BOOM!!!!!
...see, even typing all that it now it seems incredibly machievellian. It was only because I went back and watched it in segments in order to do a transcript (it's knocking about somewhere on this board) that I came to the conclusion it was nothing of the sort. He had a slightly broader concern that was troubling him, based on the fact he himself had been misinterpreted due to Chinese whispers, that he was trying to bring to ahead. But when it all zips by on the screen and everyone shouting over the top of each other it kind of becomes lost and you just end up with the surface level interpretation, which is the one I've highlighted above.
I'm not quite sure what I'm saying here... I guess it's that I'm not surprised at all people think he's sly. I don't think he is, but I think he's spectacularly bad at getting his point across.”
Good stuff, KT. I'm of much the same mind.
I definitely got the feeling watching the edit (and I haven't rewatched it) that his goal in the whole affair was to rat out Lateysha to Jason and he just took a ponderous and inept route to justify doing so. I'm still of half a mind that that was at least part of it, revenge for the grief she'd given him in the first week, but that may just reflect the cynic in me.
However there was a clip (I don''t think it made the main show) where he was taking counsel (shoutout to Eubank) from Chelsea and made the distinction that he was angry about whispering campaigns done to deliberately undermine a HM's position. Leaving aside the irony of that, considering what Chelsea's done to Jayne, I thought that was an important distinction.
I'm cutting him some slack over Jason on reflection, as Andy has talked a lot about loyalty and was very grateful last night when he discovered that Jason hadn't nommed him. So I think he was genuinely concerned and upset that his friend might be getting the undermining treatment when the whole gameplayer thing came up and he wanted to stick up for him out of mutual loyalty, and was relieved last night when he felt that had been vindicated.
As for the whole sly and manipulative business, it seems self evident to me in both ways. I understand why Andy thinks they're backbiting bitches out to undermine particular HMs and I understand why the gang think he's a sly, manipulative stirrer. I also understand why some posters think he's sly and some don't. There's no mystery in any of that to me.
And yes, his way of getting his point across is counter productive, at least with the people he's dealing with in the house.
Originally Posted by KT_Dog:
“Well I was the one who suggested he was bad at getting his point across, so I'll explain my thinking on that (since I'm also bad at it obviously!)
Whisper-Gate boiled down to two things that were troubling Andy. One was the more present problem of his friend being upset. The other was the underlying problem of 'talking behind peoples backs' generally... something he'd been on the receiving end of himself.
As I mentioned on another thread at the time, what he needed to say (and was trying to say) was:
"Lateysha shouldn't call him a game-player to his face then tell him a false reason for why she'd done that, not if she's already told everyone behind his back the real reason. People end up confused and hurt when that happens. It's happened to me and it's happened to most of us. If we all stop doing it then nobody will get hurt."
But he didn't say that, if you watch it back or read the transcript you'll see he went down a considerable number of cul-de-sacs and roundabouts just to express that rather straight-forward thought. Consequently nobody understood him (including me at the time) and everyone took it as an attack on them. Lateysha and Sam both concluded he was trying to turn the house against them!
Now whilst I accept that Latyesha, Sam and Ryan aren't especially bright individuals, I still maintain that if he didn't dance around what he's trying to say so much (and this isn't the only instance) he'd stand a much better chance of getting them to engage with him on a topic.
To be clear though. Sly? No.”
“Well I was the one who suggested he was bad at getting his point across, so I'll explain my thinking on that (since I'm also bad at it obviously!)
Whisper-Gate boiled down to two things that were troubling Andy. One was the more present problem of his friend being upset. The other was the underlying problem of 'talking behind peoples backs' generally... something he'd been on the receiving end of himself.
As I mentioned on another thread at the time, what he needed to say (and was trying to say) was:
"Lateysha shouldn't call him a game-player to his face then tell him a false reason for why she'd done that, not if she's already told everyone behind his back the real reason. People end up confused and hurt when that happens. It's happened to me and it's happened to most of us. If we all stop doing it then nobody will get hurt."
But he didn't say that, if you watch it back or read the transcript you'll see he went down a considerable number of cul-de-sacs and roundabouts just to express that rather straight-forward thought. Consequently nobody understood him (including me at the time) and everyone took it as an attack on them. Lateysha and Sam both concluded he was trying to turn the house against them!
Now whilst I accept that Latyesha, Sam and Ryan aren't especially bright individuals, I still maintain that if he didn't dance around what he's trying to say so much (and this isn't the only instance) he'd stand a much better chance of getting them to engage with him on a topic.
To be clear though. Sly? No.”
Yeah I suppose your right - his lack of judgement regarding who he's speaking to in turn leads to his miscommunication. I guess it's because I can see what he's trying to do and understand why he's doing it but in that environment with the characters that are in there, it's just completely missed.
I don't think he is particularly intelligent, it's just that some HMs are essentially thick. If he was intelligent he wouldn't have wound everybody up so that he got nominated - although, admittedly, he did try to mend one fence on noms day, but he wasn't fooling anyone.
I just think he has this smug sense of self-superiority and went round like a sanctimonious busy-body telling people things (albeit some home-truths) that they didn't want to hear. In effect he was poisoning minds in much the same way that he was accusing others of.
I just think he has this smug sense of self-superiority and went round like a sanctimonious busy-body telling people things (albeit some home-truths) that they didn't want to hear. In effect he was poisoning minds in much the same way that he was accusing others of.
I don't think Andy cares about being nominated or even being up for eviction. I think he just didn't like hearing all the nasty things said about him. I also think he only likes a few people in the house and was relieved they hadn't jumped on the hate bandwagon against him (they weren't two faced to him). I don't think Jayne's reasons for nominating him hurt him but hearing the maliciousness of Ryan and Sam's nomination reasons was painful.
To be fair on Lateysha i dont think that she ever was at the centre of a gang slagging people, particularly Hughie, off behind their backs. When they were all shown gathered around her bed talking about Hughie they were largely just consoling her because she was upset over comments he had allegedly made about her . The reason Andy gave for feeling that something more malevolent must have been going on was that Jayne would not have felt the need to intervene had this not been the case, but had he been more aware of her history with Natalie and Hughies involvement in that history he would have understood that this probably played some part in Jayne feeling the need to get involved, and that it wasnt just due to the supposed bitching they were all engaged in. Lateysha understandably felt that she had not been bitching at all but was merely expressing her feelings about the upsetting remarks she believed had been made about her by Hughie.
He has low emotional intelligence coupled with an analytical brain. He is a problem solver who needs to know the why before he can solve the problem. Put all these things together and the HMs feel "got at". It isn't the case he just sees and hears stuff and wants to get to the bottom of way things are being said and by whom.
I like Andy, and I don't see the any "sly" or "manipulative" behaviour. They're just too thick to see his genuine self.
Case in point - "Reality check" comment.
Who on earth would think that means anything other than "Shit. Reality check. We've all got to face walking out to that crowd!'
Case in point - "Reality check" comment.
Who on earth would think that means anything other than "Shit. Reality check. We've all got to face walking out to that crowd!'
Originally Posted by chuck_wippl:
“Case in point - "Reality check" comment.
Who on earth would think that means anything other than "Shit. Reality check. We've all got to face walking out to that crowd!'”
“Case in point - "Reality check" comment.
Who on earth would think that means anything other than "Shit. Reality check. We've all got to face walking out to that crowd!'”
*whisltes nonchalantly*
*suddenly finds his shoes interesting*
Originally Posted by KT_Dog:
“*whisltes nonchalantly*
*suddenly finds his shoes interesting*
”
“*whisltes nonchalantly*
*suddenly finds his shoes interesting*
”
What?
I don't get it. Is that you doing that? Or imitating Andy?
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