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Dr Who 7th May


View Poll Results: What did you think to the show?
Very poor 21 3.74%
Poor 23 4.09%
Fair 88 15.66%
Good 147 26.16%
Very Good 163 29.00%
Excellent 120 21.35%
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Old 08-05-2005, 12:37
Digidragon
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Originally Posted by Evil Eye
Both their houses look very similar from the outside...
The house shown as Adam's mum's, when he phones home, is the exact same house as the one with the wheelie bin outside which ate Mickey. They are identical, even down to the "for sale" sign. That house was opposite Clive's house.

It could be that the BBC just used a bit of old footage from Rose for this episode, or there could be a connection...
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Old 08-05-2005, 12:47
Evil Eye
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Originally Posted by Digidragon
The house shown as Adam's mum's, when he phones home, is the exact same house as the one with the wheelie bin outside which ate Mickey. They are identical, even down to the "for sale" sign. That house was opposite Clive's house.

It could be that the BBC just used a bit of old footage from Rose for this episode, or there could be a connection...
Thanks for confiming that. It was the simialrity of the houses that first put me onto the idea that Adam might be Clive's son...maybe Adams mum remarried a man from across the street after Clive died...

...but this doesn't explain the forsal ign being there in 2005 and 2012....maybe it's a future prediction about how stale the housing market goes...
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Old 08-05-2005, 13:35
Black Guardian
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Originally Posted by Alrightmate
I agree with you.

Dalek and The Unquiet Dead are the only episodes that I think are pretty good all round, and I found to be the most rewarding of the series.

1) Dalek - Excellent
2) The Unquiet Dead - Very good

3)The End of the World - Quite Good

4) Rose - Average to Good
5) The Long Game - Dull to Average

6) Aliens of London - Poor (Farcical Embarrassment)
7) World War 111 - Poor (Farcical Embarrassment)

There's bits in all episodes that are good though, but some of them as complete episodes or stories are just not that good.

I don't agree that the series is going from strength to strength. For me it's patchy at best. Although there's something to take from all episodes for most people, and it's doing well in the ratings, I don't think it's going from strength to strength as far as quality goes. Popularity yes possibly, but not quality.


Dalek, The Unquiet Dead, and maybe also The End of the World, are good enough to keep me watching, and are inspiring enough for me to be optimistic about the future of the show. These 3 shows tell me that this show is capable of a lot more, and that they really do have some talent on board there.

But 2 or 3 good shows out of 7 looks quite bad on paper. But the show does enough to keep people watching, and I'm sure that the remainder of the series is going to improve.
I am very optimistic about series 2, and I think there will be more hits than misses there for me.

As mentioned by another poster, ironically it's the stories penned by Russell T Davies that are the ones that seem to be the weakest.

There seems to be a lot of worship of Russell T Davies as a writer, but I try to keep my feet on the ground.
Yes, he's the guy who was responsible for pulling all this together and making it all happen, but his actual writing in individual episodes makes me think that they aren't his best work.
Maybe it's the hype around him that makes people assume that he's the best writer ever, but I think Mark Gatiss and Rob Shearman have outclassed him with their two episodes. I think they have possibly been generally ignored for how much better they were, while RTD is the recipient of all the praise.

The story arc is good, but some of the writing from RTD has been very disappointing for me. It's like he's writing episodes of a second rate children's soap at times.

And I'm not too sure about RTD's talent at actuallly writing science fiction. Most, if not all, of his ideas are derived from other sci-fi, or ideas ripped from other sci-fi movies.

There are disappointments for me, but also positives that outweigh the negatives.
There is a lot I can credit RTD for, but it wouldn't be for his actual writing of individual stories, it would be more about his vision, how he wants it to look visually, and work into some of the characterisations.

Sometimes this series works for me, and at other times it doesn't work at all. Very patchy, but when it's good it's excellent, and shows a lot of optimism and promise for the future.

Better stories would make things a lot better I think. And for some reason 45 minute stories aren't working too well, I don't know why, but for some reason they aren't in general.
Some of the stand alone stories have worked really well..The Unquiet Dead and Dalek..but the two parter AOL/WW3 failed on a number of levels. I will most probably be lynched for daring to put this thought on the forums but it is interesting to note that most of the episodes which have much better received were not written by RTD. I am full of admiration for what RTD has done with the series and engaging viewers new and old with his vision but I hope when this series ends they will look back and see what worked and what really didn't. Perhaps it is not so much the writing but the way in which the ideas were executed on screen so hopefully directors like Euros Lyn and Joe Ahearne will be asked back for series 2.
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Old 08-05-2005, 13:42
munta
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I can't belive that no one has yet mentioned the obvious concluion about Adam! (unless I missed it in the past 13 pages )

Facts
1 - Adam - The first human in the bible. From which all humans were created.
2 - Had knowledge of the Daleks
3 - Gained knowledge of microchips in the future
4 - had that implant in hs head

So this leads me to thing that Adam is none other than

Davros?

Why not
1 - Davros had an Eye implant not a brain implant. But could this have been modified?
2 - Adam is Human but Davros is Kalid. Could The Kalid be related to Humans? Much like the Doctor is Human to all intents and purposes?

Conjecture
1 - Tempeted by the devil/snake to eat the apple. Could there be a link with Rose being Eve?
2 - There are rose and wolf variaties of Apple. Didn't Red Riding Hood take a basket of apples to grannie?
3 - Did the Daleks gain their knowledge of time travel from Adam?
4 - Why was the dog so interested in the answer Phone? Was it just because of Adams voice or more Bad Wolf references. Could Adam disect the Dogs brain to get the information that was destroyed.

Unbeliveable bits
1 - How could an answerphone hold all of the information that Adam transmitted. It just doesn't have the bandwidth.
2 - How does the phone know which time to phone back to.

Still - why let physics get in the way of a good story
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Old 08-05-2005, 13:48
Digidragon
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Originally Posted by Evil Eye
Thanks for confiming that. It was the simialrity of the houses that first put me onto the idea that Adam might be Clive's son...maybe Adams mum remarried a man from across the street after Clive died...

...but this doesn't explain the forsal ign being there in 2005 and 2012....maybe it's a future prediction about how stale the housing market goes...
When Adam has just finished his phone call, the Doctor calls him "mutton Jeff". And when Adam's Mum opens the door she asks, "Is that you, Jeff?"

I know that "mutton jeff" means deaf, but Adam didn't seem to be ignoring the Doctor, or not hearing him.

Also, the inside of Adam's Mum's house didn't really look very "2012". Plus, when both Rose and Adam made their respective phone calls back in time to their Mums, red tops* and washing machines seemed to feature in the scenes...

* Adam is wearing a red hooded top in the photo on the telephone table
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:01
Hot Pepper
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Originally Posted by munta
4 - Why was the dog so interested in the answer Phone?
I've never seen my answer phone glow blue - how did that happen then?

Could Adam disect the Dogs brain to get the information that was destroyed.
What a great idea! Best make sure the kiddies are in bed though!
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:01
Black Guardian
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Has someone posted the overnight ratings for last nights ep yet? Apologies if they have and I didn't spot them.
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:11
Szlater
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Originally Posted by munta
I can't belive that no one has yet mentioned the obvious concluion about Adam! (unless I missed it in the past 13 pages )

Facts
1 - Adam - The first human in the bible. From which all humans were created.
2 - Had knowledge of the Daleks
3 - Gained knowledge of microchips in the future
4 - had that implant in hs head

So this leads me to thing that Adam is none other than
For much the same reasons as I disagreed with the Gallifreyans are humans conjecture last night.

The events in 'Genesis of the Daleks' in which Davros creates the Daleks happens in about 5300BC. Your idea would mean that Adam as Davros would have to invent time and space travel, only to subsequently forget about it.
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:15
JCR
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Originally Posted by Black Guardian
Has someone posted the overnight ratings for last nights ep yet? Apologies if they have and I didn't spot them.
7.51m (share 38.9%)

Celebrity wrestling drew an average of 2.56M, surely meaning it won't be on for much longer. So DW will get a new itv show to whip in the ratings. Yay!
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:24
brangdon
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I voted "good". It didn't have any of the childish humour that has spoiled most previous episodes. I liked what happened with Adam.

Adam was always a bit dubious in that he worked for the bad guy and didn't do anything especially "good". It was hard to see why Rose was throwing herself at him (insisting he come, giving him her magic cell phone and her Tardis key). I did admire him for following the Doctor's advice and "throwing himself in", overcoming his squeamishness and getting the spike implant. Using it for personal gain was perhaps a bit naughty, but simply plugging in was enough to cause the problem.

He's lucky to be alive. This Doctor usually kills people who expose him.

I didn't have any trouble with the sound or the sets. I think all of these stories are suffering from being squeezed into 45 minutes.
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:28
Digidragon
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Originally Posted by JCR
So DW will get a new itv show to whip in the ratings. Yay!
Or maybe it will make ITV realise that they can only dumb down so far. That maybe the British viewing public isn't as "dumb" as they think they are.

Hopefully that will be one of Doctor Who's legacies...
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:28
tigerlilyxxxxx
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Originally Posted by Digidragon
When Adam has just finished his phone call, the Doctor calls him "mutton Jeff". And when Adam's Mum opens the door she asks, "Is that you, Jeff?"

I know that "mutton jeff" means deaf, but Adam didn't seem to be ignoring the Doctor, or not hearing him.
He was speaking to both Rose and Adam and called them "mutt and jeff" as in the cartoon...
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:32
Szlater
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Originally Posted by Digidragon
Hopefully that will be one of Doctor Who's legacies...
I wonder if it's possible to chart the decline in British TV with the axing of the original series of DW...

DW is axed, TV declines, DW is recommissioned, TV enters new age of enlightenment.

Have we seen the bottom of the barrel with CW, or is their further for it to drop?

Mind you, there's always Channel 5 and Sky One (Sky's homegrown 'entertainment' is on a par with Channel 5's imo, it's only saving grace is the fact that it buys in US content) to show us how much further TV can fall.
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:34
Digidragon
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Originally Posted by tigerlilyxxxxx
He was speaking to both Rose and Adam and called them "mutt and jeff" as in the cartoon...
Aaahh, thanks for the correction. I hadn't heard of the cartoon. It actually makes more sense too...
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:39
Digidragon
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Originally Posted by Szlater
I wonder if it's possible to chart the decline in British TV with the axing of the original series of DW...
That discussion is probably best held in the Broadcasting forum, to avoid this thread wandering off topic

But, I just shudder to think what state broadcasting would be in if it wasn't for the BBC, and BBC Wales, who produced the series that launched a thousand posts on these fine forums...
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:40
Alrightmate
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Originally Posted by JCR
7.51m (share 38.9%)

Celebrity wrestling drew an average of 2.56M, surely meaning it won't be on for much longer. So DW will get a new itv show to whip in the ratings. Yay!

Celebrity Wrestling only got 2.56M???

That's a disaster for a Saturday night slot.
It's getting fewer ratings each week.

I actually watched the repeat of Celeb Wrestling this morning.
I have to admit, I found it a guilty pleasure.
Mind you, I can like trash TV sometimes. Sometimes I can watch any old trash if I'm in the right mood on a lazy Sunday morning.

But we don't really want Celeb Wrestling to do too badly so that it gets taken off air.
We just want it to be kept on and get 2.5 - 3 million each week to ensure that Doctor Who keeps a high proportion of the audience share.

There would be nothing for us to gloat about if they replace Celeb Wrestling with a show that eats into the time slots audience share.

Something like Celeb Wrestling is healthy for Doctor Who. Because this first series of Doc Who is finding it's feet, and people are more likely to stick with it if the alternative isn't that appealing to them.
Hopefully for long enough for series 2 when Doctor Who should be even better than the first series.
Or at least it should be if they take what they can learn from series one, like Black Guardian said above.
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:42
Alrightmate
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Can somebody post the viewing figures that Doctor Who has had for the last 7 weeks please?

I just want to look at the viewing figures for each episode and compare them with each other.
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:43
beee
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Originally Posted by Alrightmate
Something like Celeb Wrestling is healthy for Doctor Who. Because this first series of Doc Who is finding it's feet, and people are more likely to stick with it if the alternative isn't that appealing to them.
Hopefully for long enough for series 2 when Doctor Who should be even better than the first series.
Or at least it should be if they take what they can learn from series one, like Black Guardian said above.
Ah, but Doctor Who did pretty well against Ant & Dec... for its first couple of weeks, so I think this series has shown that it can hold its own against stiff competition. Although it would be nice if ITV just scheduled repeats of some trash like You've Been Framed
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:48
JCR
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Originally Posted by Alrightmate
Celebrity Wrestling only got 2.56M???



But we don't really want Celeb Wrestling to do too badly so that it gets taken off air.
We just want it to be kept on and get 2.5 - 3 million each week to ensure that Doctor Who keeps a high proportion of the audience share.
Don't think that's going to happen. Reliable pro wrestling website wrestlingobserver.com reported:

"--ITV Director of Programmmes Nigel Pickard has admitted he is thinking over the future of Celebrity Wrestling after the poor ratings last week. He said they would look at how it does after the next two weeks, and if there is no improvement, it's in trouble. There were only six shows taped, so cancelling after four shows in a tournament format leaves people hanging. The Herald in the U.K. today had an editorial, noting the poor ITV ratings last Saturday, and said Celebrity Wrestling "would insult the intelligence of a chimp wearing a blindfold." Hey, don't be talking about the people who used to book WCW like that. (thanks to Ian Hamilton and others)"

And that was before last nights disaster.

All the ratings for the new series of DW are in the episode guide at http://www.gallifreyone.com Alrightmate
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Old 08-05-2005, 14:50
Black Guardian
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Originally Posted by Alrightmate
Celebrity Wrestling only got 2.56M???

That's a disaster for a Saturday night slot.
It's getting fewer ratings each week.

I actually watched the repeat of Celeb Wrestling this morning.
I have to admit, I found it a guilty pleasure.
Mind you, I can like trash TV sometimes. Sometimes I can watch any old trash if I'm in the right mood on a lazy Sunday morning.

But we don't really want Celeb Wrestling to do too badly so that it gets taken off air.
We just want it to be kept on and get 2.5 - 3 million each week to ensure that Doctor Who keeps a high proportion of the audience share.

There would be nothing for us to gloat about if they replace Celeb Wrestling with a show that eats into the time slots audience share.

Something like Celeb Wrestling is healthy for Doctor Who. Because this first series of Doc Who is finding it's feet, and people are more likely to stick with it if the alternative isn't that appealing to them.
Hopefully for long enough for series 2 when Doctor Who should be even better than the first series.
Or at least it should be if they take what they can learn from series one, like Black Guardian said above.
I am so pleased that DW is getting the ratings and critical acclaim it deserves (perhaps not for AOL/WW3! Lol!) but I hope they don't become complacent....that is what happened many years ago and we all know how that turned out. All it will take is for ITV to buy in a series like Battlestar or schedule that programme with Patrick Stewart against it that they are currently making and we might see a completely different picture. Would we so eager to gloat then? I agree with what Alrightmate said in his post that for series one it was perhaps fortutious that DW has been able to find it's feet with little to oppose it but they shouldnt rest on their laurels or the praise that is currently being lavished on it. RTD and co should take a serious look at what worked in series one and what didn't and learn from that in order to make it a much stronger show when it returns for series two and who knows what opposition it may face.
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Old 08-05-2005, 15:02
Black Guardian
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Originally Posted by Alrightmate
Can somebody post the viewing figures that Doctor Who has had for the last 7 weeks please?

I just want to look at the viewing figures for each episode and compare them with each other.
Rose: 10.81 Official BARB ratings

End of the World: 8.2 (Peak) 7.87 (Average)

The Unquiet Dead: 8.3 Official BARB ratings

AOL: 7.3 Official BARB ratings

WW3: 7.9 (Peak) 7.26 (Average)

Dalek: 8.73 (Official final figure not out yet!)
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Old 08-05-2005, 15:19
Szlater
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Originally Posted by Black Guardian
I am so pleased that DW is getting the ratings and critical acclaim it deserves (perhaps not for AOL/WW3! Lol!) but I hope they don't become complacent....that is what happened many years ago and we all know how that turned out. All it will take is for ITV to buy in a series like Battlestar or schedule that programme with Patrick Stewart against it that they are currently making and we might see a completely different picture. Would we so eager to gloat then? I agree with what Alrightmate said in his post that for series one it was perhaps fortutious that DW has been able to find it's feet with little to oppose it but they shouldnt rest on their laurels or the praise that is currently being lavished on it. RTD and co should take a serious look at what worked in series one and what didn't and learn from that in order to make it a much stronger show when it returns for series two and who knows what opposition it may face.
I don't think that we'll see another sci-fi show on ITV in the same timeslot as Doctor Who. The reason being that it would split the viewing audience, rather than attracting new viewers. ITV may introduce their Patrick Stewart vehicle in the post-Who slot, to capitalise on the Who audience, rather than trying to compete with it.

I also doubt that the new Battlestar would be screened as early as 7pm, it's a much more adult programme, and is more likely to be shown in a post-watershed slot.
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Old 08-05-2005, 15:24
jimboc
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Originally Posted by etldlrl
I think this depends greatly on the quality of your TV's speakers.

I run my TV though my hi-fi and didn't have a problem with the dialogue, although I do think the music was overloud and not very good. My parents' TV has rather poor sound (as do most TVs) and they have a problem understanding the dialogue on many programmes.
Ah yes - probable v true. I have a surround sound system so get v good audio stereo quality.

Lucky me!
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Old 08-05-2005, 15:27
jimboc
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Originally Posted by Black Guardian
RTD and co should take a serious look at what worked in series one and what didn't and learn from that in order to make it a much stronger show when it returns for series two and who knows what opposition it may face.
Ain't that just a little bit patronising? I think the guy and his team know what they're doing. I am so impressed by this new series and the ratings show that it's reaching a whole new audience. The figures for Ant and Dec weren't down by all that much opposite Doctor Who, so it shows there's a fresh crowd watching TV on a Saturday night.
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Old 08-05-2005, 15:29
lino
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If you go to the products section of the Geocomtex page..

Here are some of our world-gripping products: [list][*]IE core chip transistors[*]Gravitic technology research[*]Bubble memory[*]Argentum Ordnance (6/9/32 piece packs)[*]Psychtronic - Electronic Interface hardware[*]Node Stabilised (Lupus and Nocens variants)[*]Ether beam sensing technology[*]Telebiogenesis[*]Reduced stature nebulalloy[*]Bonded polycarbon[/list]See what it says in brackets after Node Stabilised? Lupus is Latin for wolf and Nocens is Latin for bad..
It's probably been mentioned elsewhere, but man alive I do hope we're not all going to be angry with RTD when this all ties together.. If it does!

Last nights episode I voted as good, the whole Blade Runner look was a little tired I thought, can't go wrong with a little Pegg though!
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