My BBQ at 8pm out in the dark was so enjoyable.

Isn't the reason Our Girl didn't do very well that it's just a bit rubbish? It certainly had the slot and the hype but it didn't deliver. From what I've seen it just isn't very good. Nor is DCI Banks for that matter but given the lead-ins Our Girl should really have been further ahead.

This is ironic, right?!?

It was so obvious it was made up, any show that gets 9.683m and 45% of the viewers is not going to have any article or newspaper or BBC response like that, in fact the BBC would be laughing at any suggestion of it.




It's made up!

Yes 9.683m 45% is great and GBBO stated on one of its very highest ratings ever, the comparison is XF that started on its lowest figure since 2005.

I think the real problem is the subject matter. It's not something that people want to watch - the reality of people being killed in the Middle East or wherever has coloured public opinion and this isn't an attractive world for a mainstream audience to want to spend time in.

It should never have been recommissioned in the first place.

DCI Banks was always been a solid but unspectacular performer. With Tennison coming next year as well as a raft of other crime dramas, ITV don't need to renew it.

Cormoran Strike is coming to BBC One next year and I wonder if ITV might be looking at another crime novel series to adapt for television, they had Roy Grace in development at ITV Studios but that went nowhere and Mammoth Screen were developing Cooper and Fry. They cannot rely on Vera and Endeavour forever and Maigret will likely be limited to 2 episodes per year due to to Rowan Atkinson.

Being 400,000 down YOY despite airing at a darker, non-school holiday time of year might not excite them much though

That's a weird sort of appeal to authority line of reasoning. Hi by the way, I'm the person whose points you disagree with.


I don't look at it that way. I look at like building viewer habits through a predictable schedule in terms of where you can expect to find specific genres, then offering a wide variety of programming within this genre in those expected slots.

I don't think it's boring to move from Broadchurch to Cold Feet, for example, on a Monday night or Victoria to Grantchester on Sundays. Big bold dramas, different in scope, but in a slot viewers expect to find good drama.

I don't see the point of throwing things to the slaughter, especially since the BBC has Tuesday nights - Our Girl for example could probably have gone out on Tuesdays at 9pm after Holby and done better. Why? Because the BBC1 schedule architecture is built for Tuesday night at 9pm to be a drama slot.


Wouldn't happen again because they've learned the lesson on Mondays - trouble is they've not learned it elsewhere.


It's that, and the fact that viewers have been trained to subconsciously expect drama on Monday night on ITV. I think a lot of them would have performed worse in another slot. Putting Broadchurch on Thursday at 9pm wouldn't have helped it, IMO. Thursday night is not a drama night on ITV. It just feels wrong.


We have totally different lines of reasoning. I'm talking about maximising overnight ratings, and to do that shows should be scheduled where they are to be expected to air.

Victoria is a good example. ITV could have run scared of the imminent Poldark threat and aired on Monday night or Friday night or something but it's a quintessential. It 'feels' like a Sunday show. Just like Broadchurch 'feels' like a Monday show. I'm saying ITV should focus on Sunday and Monday for drama, reintroducing Wednesday as well - but only if they implement some pre-watershed drama there again.

And leave Tuesdays and Thursdays for factual, develop and build great factual formats there and grow that audience. Shows like POG's Dogs have shown factual suits these nights. Putting Trevor McDonald shows there too would do well, and the Love Your Garde-esque formats.

I look at it more strategically than you clearly - I think your line of reasoning is a bit 'eternal optimist'... sort of like "good shows will do well anywhere, so just make good shows!" I don't agree with that. It's about putting aces in places, and not just chucking shows anywhere.

Schedule integrity is key, more key than opposition I'd say - it should be the priority, building viewer habits and scheduling within that. There's plenty of flexibility within that structure, to say otherwise is misleading.


Weak argument - can you point me towards a show other than Bake Off that's made Wednesdays so incredible for BBC1? Cuffs maybe?

Slots 'feel' right after a long period of almost training viewers to expect certain genres there. I firmly believe in sticking to genre in slots, as I think it helps with the overnights and viewer engagement. ITV let Sunday and Wednesday go, it's time to try and get them back, and build Tuesdays and Thursdays up in other areas.


Now you're being patronising. I was never suggesting I'd just done something akin to curing cancer with a quick schedule outline, I was simply trying to lay out my argument for a stricter overall schedule framework - which of course can be deviated from for big events like sport and huge opposition, but with which the channel's core audience can get into the habit of knowing where to find things each week.

Viewers are creatures of habit, put shows in the right place and they stand a much better chance of doing well, or better if they already do well.


Which is precisely why I am saying to avoid drama on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays at all, sticking to Sunday, Monday and Wednesday which 'feel' like drama nights on ITV (particular the first two). Budget-wise, working with 3 nights for big drama and sticking to that as a rule of thumb, will not only be more financially viable but also help build viewer habits and open up all the slots on the other nights for different formats (entertainment on Fri/Sat, docs on Tue/Thu, etc).

I do think the idea I came up with is far more intuitive and logical than your patronising "I know everything about how TV works" post has suggested. It's also not that far removed from what we have now - when was the last time you saw new drama on ITV on Tuesday, Thursday or Friday anyway? It's about strengthening Sundays and Wednesdays at 8pm leading into the drama we can expect anyway, and bolstering Wednesday at 9pm.


Getting bored now. My whole point was NOT to air blockbusters every night, hence the 'banning drama on Tue/Thu/Fri' comment. Stick to Sun/Mon/Wed and leave other formats and genres to the other nights (Factual on Tue/Thu, entertainment on Fri/Sat).


The more I read the more I think we agree then. Tuesdays and Thursdays are always going to be weaker as they can't spread themselves too thin, so put factual on then and try and attract a different audience those nights. Cheaper too.


Just because it's not been done or being done already doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

That's like saying all good ideas in the world have already been tried and tested and we're working with the best possible way of doing things right now and just doing the best we can with it. I don't agree.

I'm not saying it needs to be so strict there is no deviation, but at the moment ITV's schedule has such a weak skeleton and foundation that - bar Mondays - it's harder than it could be for them to build viewer habits.

Yep it was pitch black by 8pm. The share being up on last year suggests less people were watching tv overall. Let's see where we end up next week...

I think the point you were trying to make yesterday is that ITV really need to sort out their programming. Having set nights might or might not work, I can't remember wether you said Tuesday or Thursday factual from 9pm. That could work with The Bill leading in at 8pm if it was to return.

I think

Sun - 7pm soap, 8pm Durrells-esque drama, 9pm Victoria 'Sunday' Drama (NAT)
Mon - 9pm Broadchurch 'Monday' Drama
Tue - 8pm cheaper 'Garden' factual, 9pm bigger 'McDonald' factual
Wed - 8pm Bill-esque Drama, 9pm 'Wednesday' Drama
Tue - 8pm cheaper 'Paul's Dogs' factual, 9pm bigger 'Lumley' factual
Fri - 9pm Light ents/Benidorm/panel/film (no NAT)
Sat - all night Ents

Sun/Mon/Wed - Drama
Tue/Thu - Factual
Fri/Sat - Entertainment & Comedy

Is the right mix which is viable with budgets and also provides clear destinations for certain genres which would ultimately help enforce and reenforce patterns in viewers' heads. Only thing I can't figure out is what sort of drama Wednesday should air. If it still existed, prob something like Bad Girls. Not a Sunday drama, not a Monday drama.

But for this they need more at 8pm Sunday and a few rotating drama series for Wednesday 8pm. What better to kick that off than revived Wild at Heart (8x60) on Sun and The Bill (16x60) on Wed, with more new commissions to follow. Halcyon on Sunday, a firefighting drama for Wed (possibly spin-off of new Bill).

Plenty of ideas, and it's not exactly that deviated from the norm.

And if they managed to nail this formula with commissions for the whole year and still have money, by all means commission more goodness for Tue/Thu slots.

ITV used to have a brilliant schedule foundation but increasingly shitty shows; now it has a terrible schedule foundation but increasingly promising shows.

It could have both and it should have both.

Just to say that I said on the broadcasting forum what I think of the Paralympics coverage, As for ratings it will only be high if Paralympic GB do well.

The figures that GBBO get are crazy!

For the last few years I go through planner every weekend and set record to every programme that I may want to watch. Some may get watched live and the recording deleted others on commercial channel may end up getting downloaded and the original recording deleted. Reality is scheduling plays little or no part in what I watch. I suppose the only certainty is no ITV programme is watched live. Either on delay or catch up.

Monday - A big soap night with a drama at 9pm always works Cold Feet, Brief Encounters and Benidorm all worked here this year. Davina Mccall documentary would have been better on a Thursday. Bad Girls revival or new gritty prison drama would work here to it used to be aired on Mondays or Tuesday's I think.

Tuesday is never going to be big for ITV with BBC One having Eastenders,Holby City and a new drama every week of the year.

I think Wednesday have The Bill, then slowly add hospital drama and prison of firefighting drama. These could be set in the same place as it worked well in the first series of The Royal with Heartbeat crossovers. Wednesday would work well for ITV as other than the Bake Off BBC One never has much in that slot.

Thursday - 8:30 will probably be Coronation Street next year so it will be filled with soaps. A documentary at 9 would be nice after the drama of the soaps.

Friday should be soaps then X Factor I think X Factor needs to be moved away from
Sunday entirely. BGT has worked well on Friday nights in the semi-finals week so why couldn't X Factor?. Benidorm always worked well on Fridays to.

Saturday should be entertainment, X Factor, Newzoids, Go For It, The Chase, All Star Mr & Mrs, You're Back In The Room,. Saturday and Mondays are the only things they have right at the minute.

Sunday - 7pm early evening drama or documentary before drama at 8 with Heartbeat, The Royal or Wild At Heart revival. 9 big budget drama's like Downton and Victoria, Mr Selfridge would have been good on a Sunday.

I like your ideas James and mine are mostly similar. And for anybody who doesn't like our ideas I respect everyone's opinion. It's just a fantasy really and most of us agree ITV need to sort out their programming.

I do the same, I put schedule but really mean programming sorry.

Oh just stop it. It's a brilliant rating, accept it.

With regards to Tues on ITV, I think Holby is actually quite weak - it faces little competition all year round and doesn't do much more than 4.5m most weeks, which isn't shabby but isn't anything spectacular. I don't think there's any reason why a suitably strong ITV show wouldn't be able to at least pull in 3-4m against that.

I also disagree with TXF on Fridays. Last year, the Friday shows were a disaster - although the less said about the last series the better really. Viewers are used to TXF on Sat and Sun and have been since 2009. You'd be resetting viewing habits and I don't think TXF is a Friday night show - a lot of the target audience would be out on a Friday night.

Yes, I don't think either drama is anything special. I thought Our Girl would get 5m last night, then drop away to 3-4m.

Radio Times magazine had a little piece a few weeks ago, saying the author of the Banks books had criticised the TV series. I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has. Other dramas with similar ratings have gone to the wall.

I did think that about The X Factor but just as many go out on Saturday nights. The BBC could be beaten on Tuesday's but I think ITV would have to try very hard. Holby City has a loyal fanbase like other soaps who wouldn't turn off a show they watch weekly for something new on ITV.

You have a point about The X Factor though, perhaps that is best left as it is.

I don't think that he can accept it.

At the end of the day, there is something that rates higher than a Cowell talent show.

You are aware that last year the rating was 9.49 million (43.4%) and last night the rating was 9.683m (45%)

So I make that a modest rise in share and numbers from last year to this year

DCI Banks has always done enough to justify a renewal but I think now it's older and likely more expensive after five series and it's made by an indie and not an ITV Studio company, ITV don't need to renew it anymore especially now ratings have fallen under 4m.

Rivals or Simon's shows?