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The Ratings Thread (Part 68) |
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#3751 |
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Can a separate thread be created for a certain few members to argue amongst themselves about Bake Off and X Factor/ITV and the BBC?
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So you want rid of the arguments you disagree with...
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Maybe these olden days ratings should go in a seperate thread.
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#3752 |
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So you want rid of old ratings...
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#3753 |
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NO. Please post them, ignore those who don't like them. They spark interesting discussions, better than endless crap that gets posted on here.
Really grateful to Ray Tings for posting them and they'd only die and go unnoticed in their own thread. No need for thread policing, in my opinion, unless there's abuse going on - which basically never happens on here - even if things do get a little heated at times. |
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#3754 |
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+1 This is a ratings thread and the old ratings spark tons of interesting chat which I - and others I'm sure - enjoy reading.
Really grateful to Ray Tings for posting them and they'd only die and go unnoticed in their own thread. No need for thread policing, in my opinion, unless there's abuse going on - which basically never happens on here - even if things do get a little heated at times. But Ray, please keep on posting some more old ratings. They are fantastic! Your dedication and efforts are brilliant
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#3755 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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So you want rid of old ratings...
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#3756 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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+1 This is a ratings thread and the old ratings spark tons of interesting chat which I - and others I'm sure - enjoy reading.
Really grateful to Ray Tings for posting them and they'd only die and go unnoticed in their own thread. No need for thread policing, in my opinion, unless there's abuse going on - which basically never happens on here - even if things do get a little heated at times. ![]() No harm in lively debate as long as personal insults don't get thrown around. |
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#3757 |
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I think lately its been really heated on here, and its not actually generating any discussion. I said it yesterday but posters/discussion keeps going round and round in circles. Ok, points may be raised, but those points get repeated all the time which add nothing I don't think.
But Ray, please keep on posting some more old ratings. They are fantastic! Your dedication and efforts are brilliant ![]() ![]() It's not as bad as it used to be on here but the XF/SCD stuff is more tedious this year than the last few, unfortunately. Definitely agree about the old ratings, they're a ray of light in here. |
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#3758 |
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I've enjoyed talking scheduling with James.....even though he's completely wrong and I as usual am always right!
![]() No harm in lively debate as long as personal insults don't get thrown around. ![]()
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#3759 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Not sure if you're referring to the XF/SCD merry go round or the discussion about scheduling or both, the latter I felt was quite a healthy debate even both sides repeated their views and didn't budge from their viewpoints.
It's not as bad as it used to be on here but the XF/SCD stuff is more tedious this year than the last few, unfortunately. Definitely agree about the old ratings, they're a ray of light in here. |
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#3760 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Me too - you tart!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I was thinking about your schedules yesterday and they do make sense. Still think genres being mixed up on a night rather than genres being restricted to nights can make a great schedule. This BBC1 schedule from Sunday 1st September 1985 is one of the best. Have fond memories of watching this one. Two sitcoms, drama and factual. (We'll gloss over the fact one of the sitcoms was resurrected as it buggers up my argument about bringing back old shows! ) A really nice mix. These figures posted by Ray Tings show how well it worked.19:15 - Open All Hours: 15.69m 19:45 - Howards' Way: 9.77m 20:35 - Whicker's World: Living with Uncle Sam: 11.58m 21:30 - In Sickness and In Health: 15.58m 22:00 - News: 11.45m ITV had a great Sunday for a few years with You've Been Framed followed by Darling Buds. Forget what came after that but it was blockbuster stuff. |
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#3761 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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I've enjoyed talking scheduling with James.....even though he's completely wrong and I as usual am always right!
![]() No harm in lively debate as long as personal insults don't get thrown around. |
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#3762 |
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Most Watched Programmes of 2016 [Top 30 - Officials]
01 - 13.58m - The Great British Bake Off (24/08/16) - BBC 1 02 - 12.27m - Euro 2016: Portugal v France (10/07/16) - BBC 1 03 - 11.94m - Britain’s Got Talent (16/04/16) - ITV 04 - 11.64m - Sherlock (01/01/16) - BBC 1 05 - 11.39m - Euro 2016: England v Iceland (27/06/16) - ITV 06 - 10.89m - Call the Midwife (06/03/16) - BBC 1 07 - 9.40m - EastEnders (01/01/16) - BBC 1 08 - 9.34m - Happy Valley (15/03/16) - BBC 1 09 - 9.25m - Wimbledon 2016: Men’s Singles Final (10/07/16) - BBC 1 10 - 9.12m - The Night Manager (27/03/16) - BBC 1 11 - 8.97m - Coronation Street (04/01/16) - ITV 12 - 8.82m - Mrs Brown’s Boys (23/07/16) - BBC 1 13 - 8.76m - Countryfile (07/02/16) - BBC 1 14 - 8.72m - Silent Witness (05/01/16) - BBC 1 15 - 8.71m - Death in Paradise (07/01/16) - BBC 1 16 - 8.57m - Olympics 2016 (16/08/16) - BBC 1 17 - 8.42m - War and Peace (03/01/16) - BBC 1 18 - 8.11m - Ant & Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway (20/02/16) - ITV 19 - 8.06m - Attenborough and the Giant Dinosaur (24/01/16) - BBC 1 20 - 7.89m - The X Factor (27/08/16) - ITV 21 - 7.87m - The Voice UK (09/01/16) - BBC 1 22 - 7.86m - The Durrells (03/04/16) - ITV 23 - 7.75m - Still Open All Hours (24/01/16) - BBC 1 24 - 7.56m - Marcella (04/04/16) - ITV 25 - 7.51m - Victoria (28/08/16) - ITV 26 - 7.46m - Elizabeth at 90: A Family Tribute (21/04/16) - BBC 1 27 - 7.45m - Emmerdale (04/01/16) - ITV 28 - 7.44m - The Great Sport Relief Bake Off (03/02/16) - BBC 1 29 - 7.33m - Eurovision Song Contest (14/05/16) - BBC 1 30 - 7.17m - When Ant & Dec Met the Prince (04/01/16) - ITV Most Watched Programmes of 2016 [Top 30 - Officials inc. +1] 01 - 13.58m - The Great British Bake Off (24/08/16) - BBC 1 02 - 12.46m - Britain’s Got Talent (16/04/16) - ITV 03 - 12.27m - Euro 2016: Portugal v France (10/07/16) - BBC 1 04 - 11.64m - Sherlock (01/01/16) - BBC 1 05 - 11.42m - Euro 2016: England v Iceland (27/06/16) - ITV 06 - 10.89m - Call the Midwife (06/03/16) - BBC 1 07 - 9.40m - EastEnders (01/01/16) - BBC 1 08 - 9.34m - Happy Valley (15/03/16) - BBC 1 09 - 9.25m - Wimbledon 2016: Men’s Singles Final (10/07/16) - BBC 1 10 - 9.19m - Coronation Street (26/05/16) - ITV 11 - 9.12m - The Night Manager (27/03/16) - BBC 1 12 - 8.82m - Mrs Brown’s Boys (23/07/16) - BBC 1 13 - 8.76m - Countryfile (07/02/16) - BBC 1 14 - 8.72m - Silent Witness (05/01/16) - BBC 1 15 - 8.71m - Death in Paradise (07/01/16) - BBC 1 16 - 8.69m - Ant & Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway (20/02/16) - ITV 17 - 8.57m - Olympics 2016 (16/08/16) - BBC 1 18 - 8.56m - The X Factor (27/08/16) - ITV 19 - 8.42m - War and Peace (03/01/16) - BBC 1 20 - 8.20m - The Durrells (03/04/16) - ITV 21 - 8.06m - Attenborough and the Giant Dinosaur (24/01/16) - BBC 1 22 - 8.04m - Marcella (04/04/16) - ITV 23 - 8.00m - Victoria (28/08/16) - ITV 24 - 7.87m - The Voice UK (09/01/16) - BBC 1 25 - 7.75m - Still Open All Hours (24/01/16) - BBC 1 26 - 7.69m - When Ant & Dec Met the Prince (04/01/16) - ITV 27 - 7.66m - Emmerdale (04/01/16) - ITV 28 - 7.46m - Elizabeth at 90: A Family Tribute (21/04/16) - BBC 1 29 - 7.44m - The Great Sport Relief Bake Off (03/02/16) - BBC 1 30 - 7.38m - Vera (31/01/16) - ITV |
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#3763 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 23,342
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I've enjoyed discussing scheduling with the both of you to. It's just discussion nothing wrong with that.
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#3764 |
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There are some good points being made with regards to scheduling. Several ideas could work. I'm resistant to some as I think some days would have no variety.
ITV has a documentary on tonight which would probably have worked better on Monday, years ago Benidorm was on a Friday which I thought worked well. Then again I wasn't on this forum back then. Completely unrelated but that was your 22,222nd post!. |
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#3765 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm wondering how We Love Sitcom! will do on BBC One tonight. Would I Lie To You? has always been sucessful on a Friday night. I think Friday night is perfect for entertainment/panel shows.
ITV has a documentary on tonight which would probably have worked better on Monday, years ago Benidorm was on a Friday which I thought worked well. Then again I wasn't on this forum back then. Completely unrelated but that was your 22,222nd post!. ![]() I like all of the people on We Love Sitcom but don't like the look of We Love Sitcom. I think it will be a million lower than the sitcoms last week. Friday used to be a great night for drama in terms of ratings. Wexford and Catherine Cookson dramas did well for ITV. Heartbeat was a big hit then moved to Sundays. Casualty became a big hit there and moved back to Saturdays. |
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#3766 |
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But you could have said the same thing about The Bill, that had a loyal fanbase but by the time it ended that had dwindled away to very little, because although there was still a hardcore audience, the casual audience had got bored of it. It's easy to compete against Holby if the will was there. There was certainly no problem with Holby and The Bill being shown at the same time for many years.
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But drama is too wide a genre to do that kind of thing, I think. It's all very well saying Monday night is drama night and expecting people to stay glued all year because the dramas will be too different. I'm watching Cold Feet but I watch very little other ITV drama, and Broadchurch is just not to my taste. They're dramas, but they have nothing else in common.
I'm not saying this framework of scheduling will help force viewers to watch 'just because' it's an established drama slot. I'm saying viewers will respond to knowing when to expect certain things (on the whole), and if they don't fancy the current offering, they'll try again for the next one. This isn't really anything new; ITV have done it on Mondays for ages and to a lesser extent Sundays. All I'm really saying is they should aspire to strengthen Sundays with 7-8pm soap followed by pre-watershed drama like The Durrells and possibly The Halcyon, with a view to revive Wild at Heart here, in order to make Sundays a destination again for that core ITV demographic. Not really talking about people like you or even me here as we don't fall into that demo - but that demo provides a really solid foundation for shows to achieve good starting numbers, with casual/floaty viewers like us added on top. Quote:
The aim of ITV is to promote the channel as a destination for drama, not one specific slot, otherwise you're going "This is where all the good stuff is, you needn't bother tuning in the rest of the time".
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Plus as well the reality is that you can't make Monday night a drama night all the time because ITV don't have enough drama to run three or four a year all year round.
There's quite a lot of deviation anyway from this with sport, BGT week and IAC, so I don't think it'd be too hard to achieve a near-full status. Wednesday would be the third priority after Sunday and Monday, which I think can be achieved nearly all year round. Wednesday would be a goal to aspire to, and that will be a challenge - which is WHY I'm saying leave Tuesday, Thursday and Friday alone on ITV entirely. There's not enough drama to go round and given the choice it shouldn't be airing on one of those nights over a more established night for watching drama live on ITV. Note I am saying "on ITV" a lot here because I wouldn't be saying this of the BBC. They have the flexibility to schedule more willy nilly, and Tuesday for them is a drama night, another reason why avoiding Tuesdays is a good move for ITV. Quote:
So for the summer you're either going to have to put repeats in that slot (which don't rate) or cheap factual.
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I don't understand this, I'm afraid. I can appreciate the idea of a Saturday or Sunday drama, and I wouldn't advocate showing a period drama away from a Sunday, but why would a drama work on a Monday but not a Thursday? I honestly don't understand it. New Tricks, in its life, played virtually every night of the week. Over the five series of Life On Mars and Ashes To Ashes it played on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Monday again and Friday. I enjoyed all series equally, and nobody complained it was on the "wrong" day. I just can't get my head around this idea, I'm sorry.
New Tricks is a bit of a cheap shot because that one can practically go anywhere, and has done, that is a rare breed of a show and dare I say, wouldn't really work on ITV - and if it were on ITV, you can bet your bottom dollar it'd be on Monday or Wednesday night. I'm talking about ITV here and the situation there is very different to that at the BBC in my opinion. ITV's schedule foundation is as wobbly and weak as jelly, whereas the BBC's is much more structured and cemented in the mind of the "live TV viewer". Not to mention there aren't commercial pressures. It's not to say the BBC's scheduling is perfect; far from it - look at Christmas periods of late, or the weird Apprentice scheduling they have done moving to Sundays for finales and so on. But the BBC has more solid foundation evenings where viewers can expect (largely!) the same genres and formats - Wednesday perhaps excluded in recent history, granted! Quote:
And I still don't think anyone knows what day anything is on. If you asked people what day Broadchurch was on, they would not be able to tell you. Viewer loyalty to drama on Monday will always last until there's a drama they don't like on Monday and then they'll stop.
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But my point is, you can't just distil it to strategy because so much television is subjective and good scheduling is as much serendipity as strategy. You can say "we're only having dramas on Monday at nine", but if you have two underperforming dramas there back to back, how long do you keep it there?
In the past ITV had a much stronger schedule foundation - Sundays and Wednesdays had brilliantly strong foundations. But ITV used to pull dramas mid run. Charles Allen's ITV was notorious for this. It really pissed people off. It really did take years for viewers to trust ITV again and I think we've only really seen that since hits like Downton and Broadchurch have proven ITV is back in the game. However in this period inept, useless, talentless individuals like Simon Shaps have torn up the foundations of the schedule architecture - AND axed shows that were not unsalvageable- trying to fix things, but all that was needed was to commission better shows for the slots and not axe things mid run no matter how bad things get. There's been a creative revival at ITV and a lot of the drama output now is pretty damn good. Look at Marcella and others, they're doing well creatively. It's just such a shame this level of quality wasn't around when Shaps (and to an extent, Fincham) was in charge, because maybe the whole schedule wouldn't have been utterly ripped to pieces and all these interminable double episodes of soap on Thursday and Friday wouldn't be there to panic-support the schedule. Plasters on open wounds, that's what that was. And it shouldn't be too late to reformat the primetime schedule and refocus it back to how it was, to give all these new shows the best chance in the world. Quote:
And it is a fact that the most successful show on Tuesdays at 9pm in ITV in probably the last decade was Lewis, a drama. Put that there for six weeks and Tuesdays do absolutely fine. The audience come to it, they're not confused by it being Tuesday. There's no need to write the whole night off.
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Also as well you can come up with this strategy but so much commercial television wants big hits now. You can argue that you can build up Tuesday factual and the audience will come to it in time but they can't wait for however long that takes. They need a quick fix.
Tuesday night of 8pm Long Lost Family and 9pm Joanna Lumley, with Thursday of 8pm Paul O'Grady's Dogs and 9pm Trevor McDonald on Death Row - that's both nights sorted with shows that actually stand a chance of not only doing quite well but being complimentary to each other in terms of audience overlap. Quote:
Plus sometimes the slots are a matter of convenience - they have to show X drama now because it's the end of the financial year or the rights are about to expire or it's been delayed for legal reasons or numerous other factors.
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And in addition, television is often riddled with cock-ups. Some dramas go very badly and they end up being burned off in less exposed slots. You can look at it and go, why are ITV putting it there where people won't watch it, and often it's the case that they don't want people to watch it because it's embarrassing.
People like us who DVR or timeshift are not the people I'm talking about here. It's the core lot that still watch live every night and channel flick. Subliminally program those people to expect certain things (loosely) and this will help channel share, I'm certain of it! Quote:
By regimenting slots like that you're advocating rather conservative programming, so if someone comes to ITV with a brand new concept that doesn't fit in any of those proscribed slots, it doesn't get made.
A good controller and commissioning team would never turn down brand new concepts and all formats have a place in this schedule structure - and remember, as I said, the rules can be broken where appropriate - but only where appropriate - and the example of a brand new concept that 'doesn't fit in the proscribed slots' would be a prime example of when they should be broken. |
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#3767 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Only 22,222? I must be slacking! When I get to 30,000 there will be a party!
![]() I like all of the people on We Love Sitcom but don't like the look of We Love Sitcom. I think it will be a million lower than the sitcoms last week. Friday used to be a great night for drama in terms of ratings. Wexford and Catherine Cookson dramas did well for ITV. Heartbeat was a big hit then moved to Sundays. Casualty became a big hit there and moved back to Saturdays. |
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#3768 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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No Such Thing As The News gets a second series on BBC Two in October following Newsnight on a Wednesday
Probably the cheapest show on Network Tv |
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#3769 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Rigid schedules can also build viewer apathy. Certain programmes on certain nights like The One Show or soap mostly has me looking elsewhere. There could be more people some days in those slots but channels are happy to go along with a regular 4/5m that can spike to 7/8m every so often rather than seeing if a programme can get a higher rating there.
They're the foundations and that's fine, IMO. Quote:
Tuesday night drama at 9pm on BBC1 only does well when it's good.
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Since Happy Valley ended nothing has done great there and it's because ITV has factual on that viewers go for a drama alternative. That didn't save The Living And The Dead from bombing. The same is true for Mondays at 9pm on ITV. When New Tricks was at its peak it saw off every single drama that ITV put there.
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Some popular 9pm programmes on Mondays on ITV this year haven't all been dramas. There was comedy with Benidorm, factual with When Ant & Dec Met The Prince, light entertainment with BGT. I don't think channels should always limit a slot to one style of programme.
And & Dec and the Prince is one off fodder and would slot nicely into my Tuesday or Thursday plan for factual. As for Benidorm, I think that is best suited to Friday night. But under my idea I wouldn't be against it going on Monday entirely, I just think that's a show you can put in a 'lighter' evening and see it perform well. Quote:
I said that about Death In Paradise and was proved wrong. There are generally more viewers around on Monday, but I think established programmes can do a series on another and bring an audience there.
Under my idea I wouldn't be against launching new dramas on Monday nights then moving them to Wednesday nights for future runs - only if Wednesday has been established again with pre-watershed drama at 8pm and solid drama at 9pm. This is the sort of thing that would be possible once my idea had been bedded in for a while as it's logical and makes sense to save Monday for premiering series and Wednesday for some returning ones. Pillar shows like Broadchurch would probably keep Mondays but there would always be the option to go to Wednesday if monster competition was put there. Far from being regimented there's a lot of flexibility in that but it doesn't mess with the subconscious psychology of it for viewers who watch TV live every day. Subconsciously Sun and Mon/Wed would be in their heads as being a cluster. Quote:
Sunday and Monday are definitely the best day for dramas as they tend to be two of the best rated nights of the week. I do think Cold Feet could have gone out on Sunday like it did before and be successful.
I'd have been game for Cold Feet on Sunday at 9 if Corrie was on at 7.30 and something else aired in between. But it is what it is. Right now it's best to have Victoria on Sun and Cold Feet on Mon, since they're airing at the same time. Feels more right than the other way round. Quote:
Doc Martin played well there too as does Sherlock. They didn't look like traditional Sunday shows on paper. Back in the 90s I could see Broadchurch being a Sunday show.
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One reason why Paul O'Grady's Love Of Dogs took off was because when it started it played on Mondays at 8pm against a dreadful period of EastEnders where viewers were starting to drift away from it. POG Dogs found a bigger audience than expected there and was eventually moved away from EastEnders where it grew further. Popular factual can work most nights if viewers take to it.
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BBC1 had a successful Wednesday last year with Inspector George Gently followed by Car Share. A drama followed by a sitcom. This was after years of putting mainly factual there. The viewers turned up for it. I did and I usually avoid BBC1 on Wednesday most of the year.
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Wednesday feels right for feature length drama because nearly 30 years ago ITV put Morse there for two hours from 8-10pm. Slots can be created when a chance is taken instead of sticking to a schedule.
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I agree. And that right place isn't always the traditional place.
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#3770 |
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,665
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So you want rid of old ratings...
May I ask if you could post ones for around 2005? I'd be interested to see how the soaps were doing in relation to the top dramas and shows like Cowell and SCD. Thanks. Basically, I'm wondering when EE and CS stopped being the top two shows in the UK. Only occasionally in the last did a show like Only Fools, Morse or Foot in the Grave used to top them. |
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#3771 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 23,342
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I never knew Heartbeat was on a Friday it always seemed more of a Sunday thing to me. Casualty would work better on Friday's but the ratings would probably be alot lower. ITV seem to want to put factual on Friday at 9 now, over the past couple of years we have had Robson Green and his Flying Scotsman documentary, a couple of Joanna Lumley documentary's, Griff Rhys Jones, and Martin Clunes. It's the same with Friday's at 8:00. seems Friday's are for Soaps and Factual
Heartbeat seems the epitome of Sunday night drama but it started on Fridays at 9pm. ITV saw the ratings and thought oh this is popular and moved it to Sundays but it was a spring show them. I think the third series moved to Autiumn and it became enormous. What seemed to happen was when a show grew its audience on one night it would move to a more popular night to maximise ratings. It has happened in America too with CSI and Everybody Loves Raymond starting as Friday shows. Then when ratings grew they moved to higher rating nights during the week, Thursday and Monday respectively. Then they really took off. |
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#3772 |
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,665
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Yeah more XF/SCD. It's been really ramped up this year and tedious. But there you go, can't change anyone's opinions.
They appeal to very different demographics. One gets at least 10% more viewers. If not 20%. One is a 'starmaker' for nobodies whereas the other is a celebrity vehicle. Yeah you can argue which is better but then that's like comparing BGT to I'm a Celebrity. Comparing XF to BGT or Celebrity to SCD seems more appropriate to me. That's not me reopening a can of old worms, I hasten to add. |
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#3773 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 50,505
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Question Time: 2.34m (12.7%)
Trevor McDonald Inside Scotland Yard: 2.28m (12.4%) Quote:
9pm-10pm: Paralympics Live: 2.59m (14.1%)
10-11pm: Paralympics Live: 2.10m (14.7%) Quote:
Channel 5 (exc. +1)
Gypsy Kids: Our Secret World: 1.58m (8.6%) Anyone know what it got inc. +1? |
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#3774 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 510
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It's funny isn't it?
Heartbeat seems the epitome of Sunday night drama but it started on Fridays at 9pm. ITV saw the ratings and thought oh this is popular and moved it to Sundays but it was a spring show them. I think the third series moved to Autiumn and it became enormous. What seemed to happen was when a show grew its audience on one night it would move to a more popular night to maximise ratings. It has happened in America too with CSI and Everybody Loves Raymond starting as Friday shows. Then when ratings grew they moved to higher rating nights during the week, Thursday and Monday respectively. Then they really took off. At the end the the screen shrunk and there was a list at the side of what was coming up, the schedule was something like this... 8:30 - Dancing On Ice The Skate Off 9:00 - Lewis I imagine Dancing On Ice would have ran from 6:00 - 7:30 then Wild At Heart at 7:30 - 8:30. This is what Sunday night sould be, back then I would probably have stayed with ITV from 6:00 - 10:00. |
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#3775 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Victoria was around for a very long time. It could run for years.
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