But then you are making accusations as some were last year in regard to the BBC trying to nobble Birds.

How do you know ITV hadn't already planned to schedule Emmerdale for 1hr, given they had a 1hr episode for the Diet show? They couldn't very well have gone:

7pm Emmerdale
7.30pm Diet Show
8pm Emmerdale
8.30pm Diet Show

That is messy. The new schedule was much cleaner. And the above would not have given Unforgotten any better a lead in that last night.

Yep, they all do the same as it's part of life unfortunately. EE has done the first two in recent years.

I like that schedule because it gives EastEnders the best slot four nights a week. The downside would be it leaving EastEnders vulnerable to random hour-long Emmerdale's popping up on Mondays and Fridays, as well as the current random Tuesdays and Thursdays, but, then again, a hint of shifting EastEnders back to 8pm for a night (to start at the same time as Coronation St) would probably be enough to remove the possibility of that threat, so I like it.

Exactly.

You were talking about EastEnders. I responded by talking about EastEnders, a very creative show. Why goal-post move by mentioning The Voice?

Decades ago, I don't recall ITV having a problem with creating hits across all genres. It was much more watchable then too.

Have you actually considered the fact that the BBC gets good ratings because the public wants to watch the BBC and enjoys it's content? This whole 'people only watch BBC One because they are incapable of changing channels therefore it's ratings should be put into question' is such a nonsense. If the other channels provided a service...a service that the public wanted, they'd watch. ITV's problems are nothing to do with the BBC.

Most people do, but a fair few don't.

I'm sure the "UK's largest commercial broadcaster" has made plenty of use of lead-ins over its sixty-odd years.

EastEnders is unique in tone, quality and content. When it's on point, it knocks the competition for six.

EastEnders grit and drama makes it more a drama...and to define EastEnders as 'depressing' is inaccurate. The new producer has gone to great lengths to address that by introducing much lighter moments as evidenced by the Christmas Day episode.

I absolutely do believe the BBC is the best that we have across the board and on all counts. I will continue to say so. You can't say that EE, Corrie and Emmerdale 'are all the same'. Far from it. I've already explained why EE is unique.

We are not talking about the same point?

You came up with an idea of putting 3 one-hour episodes of Corrie on at 8 on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. That's what I said.

All you've done differently is spread Emmerdale out over five days with one being an hour long. I said make the 8pm hour the soap hour and have one day when Emmerdale is an hour from 7pm (like you said).

But we aren't talking about the same point?

I said I'd rather have half the amount of soaps hours and then you said the same. I said it isn't going to happen and then you said the same.

Yet you rolled your eyes at me.

I told you the downside as I saw it, Monday and Friday 7:30 show would be lost because people would stop looking at itv between 7-9 because they'll feel a soap is probably on. That's how I feel now about itv, especially on Mondays.

All I tried to fantasy schedule was to have four days where there is no soap from 7-8 on ITV. It's not going to happen and quite frankly I don't really care because it's just a TV schedule, it's just a bit of silliness.

I agree about individual whims playing a part and I know the writer of Unforgotten, Chris Lang, is (or at least was by the old team) quite highly thought of at ITV.

I don't think it was a bollock dropped so much as ITV not really caring. I get the impression they couldn't give a toss about Unforgotten, sadly. They have hardly advertised it at all (even the 3 part non-returnable Tina & Bobby has been given a bigger push) and lobbed it against a show they must have known would crush it. I think it's seen as something that was kept around by the old team, wasn't hugely popular and they aren't interested. The new drama controller obviously wants to make her mark and there are obviously limited slots/funds, whilst Lygo has made it very clear that he isn't interested in a certain type of crime drama and I fear Unforgotten has (unfairly) been tarnished with the same brush. Don't expect them to bend over backwards to accommodate the upcoming series The Loch either as I think that'll be another victim.

I don't know that they were desperate to nobble EastEnders any more than BBC1 were to nobble BOAF but your schedule would have worked better, yes. Although given that Money/Health shifts to Tuesday next week they'd have been better off launching it on Tuesday this week anyway and running the POG Dogs special last night, which would probably have given Unforgotten a slightly stronger lead-in too (even though it was only a compilation edition) as EastEnders never seems to affect it very much.

I've never understood why we don't have "Christmas in Paradise". It's surely the best rated suitable drama that the BBC have that doesn't get a festive edition?

With that in mind, and unless ratings collapse across the run, surely a feature-length edition of DIP would be the best option for covering the "Sherlock" sized gap that is likely to be on New Years' Day next year?

[quote=Ash_M1;85075546]You were talking about EastEnders. I responded by talking about EastEnders, a very creative show. Why goal-post move by mentioning The Voice?

Decades ago, I don't recall ITV having a problem with creating hits across all genres. It was much more watchable then too.

Have you actually considered the fact that the BBC gets good ratings because the public wants to watch the BBC and enjoys it's content? This whole 'people only watch BBC One because they are incapable of changing channels therefore it's ratings should be put into question' is such a nonsense. If the other channels provided a service...a service that the public wanted, they'd watch. ITV's problems are nothing to do with the BBC.[/QUOTE]


I have responded to your EE post. See further up.

BIB1 Well there have been a few changes since then. Namely the introduction of 100 of new commercials channels, thus reducing ITV's impact as viewers disperse. Thus the BBC has the advantage over ITV, being that its solely an ad free channel and many viewers have remained more loyal.


BIB2 Of course viewers enjoy BBC programmes. And I'm not questioning BBC's ratings, but it should be noted when comparing channels. As mentioned above, the sheer numbers of commercial channels have deplected ITV's numbers, whilst hitting the BBC less so. That is why flops on the BBC are far less, than on ITV, Ch4 or Ch5.

Who's to say there are not many viewers like you who will always remain loyal to the BBC, and thus will never watch a commercial channel. That is far more likely than someone being so loyal to ITV they won't watch the BBC, Ch5 or 4. Certainly a couple of members in this thread prove this point.

The BBC advantage is clear to see on Christmas Day when The Queen's Christmas Speech ge double what ITV get. Despte being the exact same programme in all.

The BBC provides a good service. It would be questionable if they didn't.

I know we are used to having people who are bias towards channels on this thread, but having people that can't accept any minor criticism of a broadcaster will ruin this thread.

If we can't have discussions then what's the point?

That is messy, which is why I didn't suggest it. However, ITV's provisional schedule had Emmerdale at 7.00pm and 8pm with a factual programme in either the 7.30pm or 8.30pm slot, and a TBA in the other. The BBC scheduled EastEnders away from Emmerdale in both schedules.

You could well be right though that the 29 times Emmerdale actually clashed with EastEnders between late August 2015 and the end of November 2016 (and all the other times when the BBC managed to outmanoeuvre the attempted clashes) were all entirely innocent.

EE is tackling depression. I'm not saying EE is 'depressing'.

BIB1 That is your opinion, not fact.

BIB2 Yes we agree. The BBC does have the highest number of quality programmes. BUT! ITV and other channels do have quality programming, and that Ash, is where your argument fails, because you cannot accept that any other channel has quality programming. Your point is weakened by a bias that is so engraned, that, for exmple: would you agree if an ITV drama was as good as a BBC drama? Unlikely because you will not ever venture away from BBC1.

Example: Downton Abbey was as much a high quality production as CTM.

H don't waste your time.

The user doesn't want a discussion, and won't change their opinion, so don't bother.

They've certainly put a lot of effort into promoting Tina and Bobby press wise, too, making Michelle Keegan available for interviews in Radio Times and TV Times, and probably the other TV magazines, too.

And, yes, I think the Grady compilation would have worked better last night. Didn't they change the Tuesday schedule once or twice before Paul's show appeared in it in the final schedules?

And he still hasn't mentioned the ident...

This poster is so biased it's unbelievable.

You started with EastEnders then mentioned The Voice for some bizarre reason.

At the risk of repeating myself, you highlight the problem yourself. ITV's issues are nothing to do with Auntie. ITV's issues are related to the huge expansion of the commercial sector (plus catch-up/the internet) and a small population unable to support them all.

The BBC has a very very loyal audience. That we can agree. I am one of them. I am a very BBC person. The BBC will always be my favourite broadcaster regardless of what the commercial sector push out.

To be fair, you do attempt to undermine the BBC's successes with the whole 'only old people watch the BBC and what the old like doesn't matter' mixed with 'the BBC audience is incapable of switching channels' routine. I have observed this running theme with your postings.

I don't see what the problem is. You seem to have an issue with the BBC doing well. You should celebrate it. I of-course...naturally...watched The Queen on The British Broadcasting Corporation. No other option would be considered. I was displeased to see that it was produced by ITV Productions mind.

As I see it - as a non-ITV fan - the network has a number of issues.
1. Over reliance on 'interruptions' more so than ever in it's past. People just don't want it.
2.Over reliance on a few genres at the expense of others.
3.A tone and quality issue.
4.A perception and image problem.
5.Far to many commercial channels all fighting over the same money.

The answers:
1. Reduce the 'interruptions' big time.
2.Increase variety to the network, take risks and lose 'predictability'.
3.A shift in tone to appeal to people like me.

They've definitely put effort into Tina & Bobby - a pity as it looks terrible whilst Unforgotten is very good yet goes about its business quietly and somewhat unloved by the marketing department.

Yes, originally the Tuesday schedule had Robson Green's Tales From The Coast at 8pm into Sugar Free Farm at 9pm. That schedule was then bumped to next week. The Robson Green documentary that was bumped from the Christmas schedule (for the Hilda Ogden tribute) was drafted in to replace Sugar Free Farm (which perhaps they didn't fancy starting against the Celebrity Big Brother launch) and I presume Green's Coast series was bumped as they didn't want him on twice. The O'Grady compilation wasn't anywhere in the provisionals and was perhaps something they just had lying around ready to go as filler whenever required.

Now of course Green's Coast series isn't scheduled at all as in the final schedule they swapped it out for Martin Clunes instead. I think Clunes will do a bit better than Green would have, but not by that much in that slot (it looks a bit odd between two diet shows) and it could probably have been more use for them at 9pm in a quiet slot later in the year. But it'll probably do a bit better than average for that slot so worth it I guess.

I really shouldn't quote your whole article but never mind...

Yep, you're right, of course making the soaps 60 minutes long would dramatically change them. We saw the reverse with The Bill, it just changes the perception of the show. Seeing a schedule of three one-hour editions of Corrie or Emmerdale within the space of five days would somehow seem starker than lots of 30 minute episodes.
As Ian has posted before, itv will simply drop Corrie in to 8:30 on a Thursday and hope it helps out future Unforgotten types.

Part of the strength of 60 Minutes is the people fronting it. They are highly respected names - it's an institution there where 'such and such programme follows tonight's 60 Minutes'.

Well I apologise. It wasn't clear from your posting.

Possibly so, but critics are generally of the same opinion. When EE is good, it's very good. The last few months, it has been outstanding. Character driven...excellent scripts and brilliant performances. It has been on fire.

Downton was popular. I agree. I didn't watch it but many did. Yes I will always favour the BBC over ITV.

BIB1 I was responding to 2 different posts of yours. Multi-tasking.

BIB2 And there lies the issue. If you get 'displeased' with the excellent ITN producing The Queen's message then I think this conversation has gone as far as it can go. Watching another channel doesn't mean you are being dis-loyal to the BBC.

BIB3 Well I don't think ITV are in the business of achieving the impossible.

BiB2 - I don't fancy ITV's chances.

I truly don't understand how anyone can be biased towards a television channel, or a broadcaster.

Imagine thinking, "ooh that sounds like a good watch except I couldn't possibly watch it on [this channel]'. I don't know about anyone else but I watch a programme because it looks good, or because I want to watch it. Not because of the channel it is on. That is preposterous and unhealthy.

The fact they're airing it on Fridays is never a good sign but I think it'll do 3-3.5m in that slot.

ITV's drama lineup is pretty good. I'm expecting Little Boy Blue to be good although I suspect ITV won't air it until Moorside finishes so they don't have two Jeff Pope dramas clashing. I'm thinking Good Karma Hospital will be Thursdays after Unforgotten and Fearless for Wednesdays after The BRITS. I'm not sure where Little Boy Blue will air but Sundays could work.