The Ratings Thread (Part 68)

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newkid30

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Agreed. Well, partly. I'm not sure there's any evidence of scripting per se, that is perhaps not the best word for what we are talking about here. Are certain scenes set up to an extent? Absolutely, as some viewers saw last night.

But this little end of series medley is a bit of a tradition and you can see how it might be convenient for them to record it in that way. I doubt very much it's common for them to do that kind of thing, and indeed many ex-housemates today have defended the show vigorously against accusations of fakery, when they simply could have not commented, adding weight to the theory that it's a rare incident.

So I don't think what happened is as bad as is being made out - or indeed evidence that the show in general is totally manufactured - however that's not to say it won't be very damaging because not everyone will see it that way, especially "fans" who have been cynical about the whole show for some time now.

I expect though the most significant thing that will happen as a direct result of this is the immediate cancellation of Live From The House.”

That is what I meant by scripted, ie scripted RTV, like MIC and all those shows, situations are setup by production companies to see what happens and give 'shape' to the shows, BB stopped being 'real' years ago, people who watch it now, will watch it regardless.

Salv*

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Agreed. Well, partly. I'm not sure there's any evidence of scripting per se, that is perhaps not the best word for what we are talking about here. Are certain scenes set up to an extent? Absolutely, as some viewers saw last night.

But this little end of series medley is a bit of a tradition and you can see how it might be convenient for them to record it in that way. I doubt very much it's common for them to do that kind of thing, and indeed many ex-housemates today have defended the show vigorously against accusations of fakery, when they simply could have not commented, adding weight to the theory that it's a rare incident.

So I don't think what happened is as bad as is being made out - or indeed evidence that the show in general is totally manufactured - however that's not to say it won't be very damaging because not everyone will see it that way, especially "fans" who have been cynical about the whole show for some time now.

I expect though the most significant thing that will happen as a direct result of this is the immediate cancellation of Live From The House.”

Thing is, i agree that its not all scripted, and I'm sure it is rare and only takes place on the last night. But, no one will know. We can go around and say "it's a rare incident". but how will we know it doesn't happen every day? We don't. I don't think it happens everyday, but that's just my opinion. Those who always thought it was dodgy, will now feel it's concrete proof that it's ALL staged.

The faces of 5 (presenters and whatnot) have mentioned nothing at all. Surely, they could just say "we only stage those last bits", but by them completely ignoring them makes them look guilty.

You are right, Live will be completely pulled now, even though IMO, the only way to work past this is to do the opposite... next series having a 24/7 feed so people can see it is not scripted. Otherwise, no one will ever get over the fact. The only way of saving the show is by doing that.

I feel that it really is the final nail. Tonight, Bear will win, it will be like a Helen Wood win. But now him winning, with the knowledge that it could be all staged is enough to kill the show because a lot will believe it was scripted from the start to see him win. Not like there wasn't enough accusation before last night, now it will be even worse.

I think after this series, something major is going to happen, and I look forward to see what they do and how they handle this. I will be shocked if none of the presenters address what happened tonight.

Dancc

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by newkid30:
“That is what I meant by scripted, ie scripted RTV, like MIC and all those shows, situations are setup by production companies to see what happens and give 'shape' to the shows, BB stopped being 'real' years ago, people who watch it now, will watch it regardless.”

It might be neat to dismiss ~3.5m viewers as easily pleased, but I don't think you get those kind of audiences on C5 if there's not a great product in there somewhere. So I don't accept that at all and I'm afraid it falls into the category of insulting viewers based on what they find entertaining, which is a bit beneath the thread these days.

Reality TV to a certain extent is always manufactured - something like The Apprentice on BBC One would probably shock people far more if they knew fully what went on. I really don't think CBB is one of the main offenders in this area, and of all the things that people could be criticising the show for right now, it should be right at the bottom of the list.

Stephen Bear potentially winning the damn thing is far more concerning!

Dancc

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Salv*:
“Thing is, i agree that its not all scripted, and I'm sure it is rare and only takes place on the last night. But, no one will know. We can go around and say "it's a rare incident". but how will we know it doesn't happen every day? We don't. I don't think it happens everyday, but that's just my opinion. Those who always thought it was dodgy, will now feel it's concrete proof that it's ALL staged.”

Agreed; hence how it's potentially very damaging. All over a low rated live segment on 5Star, they must be kicking themselves.

Originally Posted by Salv*:
“The faces of 5 (presenters and whatnot) have mentioned nothing at all. Surely, they could just say "we only stage those last bits", but by them completely ignoring them makes them look guilty.”

Emma and Rylan are not spokes people for C5 / Endemol and it would not be appropriate for them to get involved in something like this on social media. It should probably be addressed on air at some point with a pre-prepared statement, but whether or not it will be is another matter.

Originally Posted by Salv*:
“You are right, Live will be completely pulled now, even though IMO, the only way to work past this is to do the opposite... next series having a 24/7 feed so people can see it is not scripted. Otherwise, no one will ever get over the fact. The only way of saving the show is by doing that.”

We both know the chances of a 24/7 feed returning have just gone from about 0.01% to 0%, though. It's totally dead now, for all sorts of reasons. Mostly because it's just not worth the hassle for so little interest.

Originally Posted by Salv*:
“I feel that it really is the final nail. Tonight, Bear will win, it will be like a Helen Wood win. But now him winning, with the knowledge that it could be all staged is enough to kill the show because a lot will believe it was scripted from the start to see him win. Not like there wasn't enough accusation before last night, now it will be even worse.”

Stephen Bear winning will be wrong on many levels.

I expect they kept him in for ratings, purely and simply. Nothing to do with him being a Viacom star and the potential for spinoffs, that's all absolute nonsense, But I think when he's been at the core of pretty much every episode, and dominated the edit to the extent he has, it impacts the public vote to the point that it becomes untrustworthy. We haven't seen enough of the other characters because they bent over backwards to keep that berk in.

It'll be far more damaging than what happened last night, but what can you do. They made it the Bear show so they must live with the consequences of that decision, and ultimately further weakening of the BB brand.

hyperstarsponge

26-08-2016

Looks like people will not be returning to Big Brother on social media today.

Dancc

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by hyperstarsponge:
“Looks like people will not be returning to Big Brother on social media today.”

Actions speak louder than words, let's see how many come back in January. Surely though there are more credible reasons to ditch the show at this point than how an end-of-series montage was cobbled together!

Personally I've dropped more episodes this run that I have done any previous series of CBB, simply because it hasn't been as entertaining as the last couple and every episode has felt like a rerun of the previous.

It's done rather better in the ratings than last summer's run though so I think the doom and gloom in here about the show's future is premature. A big name or two in Jan and I'm sure the figures will be fine.

Dancc

26-08-2016

Meet the Controller - Kevin Lygo (ITV)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWARIEWfnCg

Well worth a watch.

Chris1964

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by James J:
“Kevin Lygo wouldn't say where the extra Corrie is going to be scheduled other than it's in a "marvellous" place. He's very optimistic about the show though and has said there will be quite big changes in production. Further, Kirsty Work asked if it was going to be a "hammock" for other shows in its new slot and he said it might well be.

Sunday 7.30pm please. 8pm for The Durrells (renewed for "more than one" series apparently). I would move Corrie from Friday to Sunday in January and then add the sixth episode later (either to Friday 8.30pm or otherwise).

Lygo comes across very sharp, shrewd and funny. I have high hopes for him at ITV. Such a contrast to Peter Fincham who managed to convey next to nothing in his interviews and leader debate last year.

Generally shrewd about whether he'll be changing the scheduling generally but did allude to it and talked about it being important where shows are and some have failed or suffered by being in the wrong place.”

At the end of the day, Lygo's job surely is to make ITV as populist and ratings centred as it possibly can be within their business model. Gone are the days where a rounded schedule(BBC aside) was demanded in this modern environment. Many would say ITV have been asleep in this respect at times over the last ten years. Some of us will moan(me included) at yet another episode of Soap coming into primetime (and I don't think it will be the last), but it will be another solid 6 million and more of a leg up to the 8.00 slot. Presumably that's what ITV is about.

James J

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Chris1964:
“At the end of the day, Lygo's job surely is to make ITV as populist and ratings centred as it possibly can be within their business model. Gone are the days where a rounded schedule(BBC aside) was demanded in this modern environment. Many would say ITV have been asleep in this respect at times over the last ten years. Some of us will moan(me included) at yet another episode of Soap coming into primetime (and I don't think it will be the last), but it will be another solid 6 million and more of a leg up to the 8.00 slot. Presumably that's what ITV is about.”

Actually don't understand most of that post or whether it's agreeeing or disagreeing with what I wrote. On that basis I can't respond to it.

bitchboyblue

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Actions speak louder than words, let's see how many come back in January. Surely though there are more credible reasons to ditch the show at this point than how an end-of-series montage was cobbled together!

Personally I've dropped more episodes this run that I have done any previous series of CBB, simply because it hasn't been as entertaining as the last couple and every episode has felt like a rerun of the previous.

It's done rather better in the ratings than last summer's run though so I think the doom and gloom in here about the show's future is premature. A big name or two in Jan and I'm sure the figures will be fine.”

Whilst i certainly agree that the show has become manipulated over the years, surely anyone can see this is merely Big Brother filming a cute *final night goodnight* segment that looks nice during tonights final?

It was a bit daft them showing it during live feed of 5* but i cant believe the overreaction by some on Twitter.

Jonwo

26-08-2016

The Ben Frow interview was good, Interesting he wants more aspirational programmes instead of the more 'gritty' shows like Can't Pay, Nightmare Neighbours etc I suspect we'll see more of those but less of the benefit shows even though as we've seen from ratings that they still rate. I'm surprised people at 5 thought Eamonn and Ruth was a risk, I thought that was a fairly low risk programme.

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Jonwo:
“Both Channel 4 and 5 held up well against Bake Off and both did decently at 9pm. Suspects is a goner after this series,”

Not necessarily, seeing as Channel 5 are looking to beef up UK originations.....

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Jonwo:
“I'm surprised they renewed Borderline for another series, I'm guessing they think it can grow”

Borderline's been renewed?

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Shocking call, it has to be said. For all the good that Frow has done for Five, and despite what some on here may say he has done an awful lot of good, I hate this stubbornness he has to accept when something doesn't work just because it ticks a certain box he wants to be ticked. I know they made a lot of noise about this one with quite a big press launch, and a fair amount of marketing, etc. And perhaps it may feel embarrassing to knock something on the head immediately that you've made such a song and dance about. I'm sure also that when Frow scheduled it on a Tuesday night at 10:00 over the summer he did not expect great figures, even with a Celebrity Big Brother lead-in. Especially the episodes that faced the Olympics coverage.

But at the same time, I think the viewers sent a clear message and as controller you have to accept their verdict and move on. Being creative should not mean backing stinkers that bring in only miniscule audiences just to be able to say you've done something. And indeed what have you achieved if the thing in question is so incredibly low-profile that nobody notices that you've done that thing anyway! Plus it seems bafflingly inconsistent to shift an import doing around 500,000 mid-run to a digital channel, only to later recommission an original doing just 300,000.

Far better surely to learn the lessons from Borderline; what viewers liked and didn't like, and channel that information into finding something that bit stronger, that has a fighting chance of being both creative and also relevant to the C5 audience. Rather than bringing back a dud, only for it to sit there in the schedule doing not very many viewers at all, and not achieving anything other than boosting rival channels. It's a waste of time and doesn't change perceptions of the channel either because even the critics won't be all that interested.

I know the point could be argued that some of C4's major returning comedies at the moment didn't start off too cleverly either - but I think they all showed considerable more promise than Borderline has. It's done nothing to suggest it's worth persevering with at all so the fact that they are suggests they are already admitting defeat in the battle to find an original scripted hit, which is pretty sad. If you're not going to have a good go at something, you'll never know, and this hardly constitutes that.

Would it kill them to look at something scripted, and try to get some noteworthy talent attached to it? Or do they only want to contribute in this genre if it involves spending as little money as possible, in which case they're always going to be on the backfoot and unlikely to ever find a breakthrough? Seems to me like the latter is true.”

The only comedy series on Channel 5 to rate above Borderline were Swinging and Suburban Shootout.....

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“I think them giving a 2nd series to Borderline is actually a good sign, it means they're willing to give stuff a chance to grow. Like I said, I'm fairly sure they're eyeing it for a move to Spike. Suspects had Fay Ripley anchoring it until she left to do Cold Feet, so I don't think it's a case of them not wanting to pay for talent.”

People need to give Suspects time to grow again, it has lost it's biggest star.....

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“Oh I agree, it was a mistake to have Ralf just as the narrator, but I suppose the aim was to make it feel like a real documentary, which is probably why the actors were mostly people who'd only done bit parts. I'd love to see 5 have another go at doing something like Suburban Shootout, which I used to love. I think that rated well, it was so unlike anything else on TV.”

Bring Back Suburban Shootout!

Dancc

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Jonwo:
“The Ben Frow interview was good, Interesting he wants more aspirational programmes instead of the more 'gritty' shows like Can't Pay, Nightmare Neighbours etc I suspect we'll see more of those but less of the benefit shows even though as we've seen from ratings that they still rate. I'm surprised people at 5 thought Eamonn and Ruth was a risk, I thought that was a fairly low risk programme.”

Talking of Eamonn and Ruth, looks like we can pencil Series 2 in for Tuesday 13th September at 9pm. Looks decent enough scheduling given Rookies failed to fire for ITV on its debut, possibly paving the way for higher than average ratings for C4 and C5 in that slot.

Not much else of note starting that week beyond the one-off doc First Day at Big School.

Nakatomi

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by DarylDay1991:
“Bring Back Suburban Shootout!”

I'd love that.

I think it just had a bad load of luck. Basically, it was a cult hit, had a big (no doubt expensive) cast and special effects and happened to be on when 5 was in its worst ever financial state, which pretty much ruined any chance of a 3rd series, even though it had been written. It's a shame, it was great fun.

D.M.N.

26-08-2016

Paralympics 2016 - broad schedule
Channel 4
13:00 to 18:00 - Live
19:30 to 20:00 - Highlights
20:00 to 21:00 - The Last Leg
21:00 to 01:00 - Live

More4
09:15 to 11:15 - Highlights
18:00 to 19:00 - Live

Jonwo

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Nakatomi:
“I'd love that.

I think it just had a bad load of luck. Basically, it was a cult hit, had a big (no doubt expensive) cast and special effects and happened to be on when 5 was in its worst ever financial state, which pretty much ruined any chance of a 3rd series, even though it had been written. It's a shame, it was great fun.”

I really liked it as well and three of the actors in it have gone into bigger things and they were Tom Hiddleston, Ruth Wilson and Tom Ellis. Ben Frow mentioned that a lot of big names got their start on 5 which is very true.

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

The nail in it's coffin was the fact that Season 2 took so long to be aired, then was reformatted and shunted to 11pm rather than 10pm.

Jonwo

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Talking of Eamonn and Ruth, looks like we can pencil Series 2 in for Tuesday 13th September at 9pm. Looks decent enough scheduling given Rookies failed to fire for ITV on its debut, possibly paving the way for higher than average ratings for C4 and C5 in that slot.

Not much else of note starting that week beyond the one-off doc First Day at Big School.”

A lot of the factual coming up sounds promising. I'm pleased they've commissioned two natural history shows although I think they should be ballsy and show it at 9pm

Wonder if GPs will be back, I do think maybe they should cut the order to 40 episodes and split it across the year allowing 12 weeks for other showss

DarylDay1991

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by Jonwo:
“I really liked it as well and three of the actors in it have gone into bigger things and they were Tom Hiddleston, Ruth Wilson and Tom Ellis. Ben Frow mentioned that a lot of big names got their start on 5 which is very true.”

Plus it made Desperate Housewives look boring!

Nakatomi

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by DarylDay1991:
“Plus it made Desperate Housewives look boring!”

Ha true. It definitely felt like a show only a risky channel would've greenlit, I'm honestly amazed Channel 4 didn't snap it up for a third series but they don't seem to be really in the business of poaching shows.

Nakatomi

26-08-2016

Originally Posted by davies88:
“Was that a new episode? I don't watch it, but I like to see programs fail after they been poached from other broadcasters, especially when the new broadcaster makes a big fanfare about it.”

Yep, new episode. I've no doubt it's cheap to make but I can't imagine Sky are happy with those numbers considering what it was getting on BBC3. I think a lot of its audience was casual viewers who watched it because there was nothing else on freeview at that time that appealed to them. Cut out the Freeview audience and you're cutting your audience down massively.

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