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The Tennis Thread (Part 31)
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planets
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“He missed out on two Opens, Wimbledon and the US. Not a nightmare in the great scheme of things and he should be more than capable of a calendar slam next year.

And yet... he's nowhere near good enough to call himself World Number One at the moment. Anyone who plays him must fancy their chances.”

When was all the hoohar about the (alleged) dodgy photos online? Does the timing of that coincide with him dropping form?
CLL Dodge
12-09-2016
Well done Stan.
MissAyrshire
12-09-2016
Congratulations Stan
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Lushness:
“I think it's a bit early to be predicting any sort of decline. I'm not saying that the gap hasn't closed between Novak and the rest of the field but I'll see how he performs next year.”

I said some months back - after Aussie or French I think that this would be the last year that Novak wins 3 out of 4 slams. Well, he won two, which is still great of course, but I expect his slam wins to be rarer now. I think he'll catch Rafa but not Roger.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“Thinking of Wimbledon, the Olympics and the US as the three. Know saying the latter was 'poor' is harsh but he got a relatively free ride to the final then was very much second best tonight.”

As said, I don't see Novak winning 3 out of 4 slams anymore but otoh we need to put things in perspective. At Wimbledon anyone can be undone by big servers, most especially when there are multiple weather interruptions. At the Olympics he was unlucky to meet Delpo in first round. Not exactly a mediocre player. Even then Novak wasn't thrashed. At US he's been clearly suffering with injury and Stan isn't exactly a mediocre player either! It's certainly no disgrace for the number 1 to lose to the number 3.

But even with Novak restored to full fitness I expect things to get more difficult for him. That's how these things go. You can't maintain dominance year after year indefinitely. Consistency starts to drop. Other players start to emerge or blossom enough to upset things, e.g., Stan.
Ginger Daddy
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“
Code:
#	CH	Player Name	Age	Ctry	Pts	+/-	Current Tournament	Previous Tournaments 	Next Pts	Max Pts
	
 1 	   CH    	
	Novak Djokovic	29.3	SRB1	14040	-	-800	-	Lost in US Open F	-	-
 2 	   CH    	
	Andy Murray	29.3	GBR1	9485	-	+180	-	Lost in US Open QF	-	-
 3 	   CH    	
	Stan Wawrinka	31.4	SUI1	6260	-	+1280	-	US Open W	-	-
 4 	   1    	
	Rafael Nadal	30.2	ESP1	4940	+1	+90	-	Lost in US Open R16	-	-
 5 	   4    	
	Kei Nishikori	26.7	JPN1	4875	+2	+710	-	Lost in US Open SF	-	-
 6 	   4    	
	Milos Raonic	25.7	CAN1	4760	-	-45	-	Lost in US Open R64	-	-
 7 	   1    	
	Roger Federer	35	SUI2	3745	-3	-1200	-	-	-	-
 8 	   7    	
	Gael Monfils	30	FRA1	3545	+4	+710	-	Lost in US Open SF	-	-
 9 	   4    	
	Tomas Berdych	30.9	CZE1	3390	-1	-180	-	-	-	-
 10 	   7    	
	Dominic Thiem	23	AUT1	3295	-	+90	-	Lost in US Open R16	-	-
Doesn't look that close using entry list. I think year to date race is closer.”

YTD list:

1 Djokovic 10240
2 Murray 8185
3 Wawrinka 4820
4 Raonic 4420
5 Nishikori 4315
6 Monfils 3355
7 Thiem 3205
8 Nadal 3200
-----------
9 Berdych 2530

Selected others:

12 Federer 2130
14 Tsonga 1890
30 Isner 1150 (had a crap year!)
47 Edmund 821
48 Evans 816
51 Del Potro 770
90 Bedene 540

As far as I can see, this week is generally a week off (no 250/500 event happening at all).

Warwinka, Raonic and Berdych have entered St Petersburg next week, Thiem and Tsonga have entered Metz. Most of the rest not playing again until Beijing/Tokyo w/c 3rd October.

Oh and Del Porto is now up to 64th in the ranking so shouldnt need to be relying on too many wildcards for much longer (although he would need them to get in the two remaining Masters events this season I think).
Jaccobabe
12-09-2016
As I Sais after W this is all very "mental".
It was the same withy Fed. He used to be down sp and mp and managed to come back to win. Thejn it changed. The other players felt it was possible to beat him. ANd its the same with Novak. Esp the loss to Sam was *shocking*.

Something is wrong, we dont know what it is but the other players take advantage as they should. I think he will win at least 1 slam next year, but maybe not more.
MissAyrshire
12-09-2016
US Open 2016: Roll of Honour
Gentlemen's Singles: Stan Wawrinka (Switzerland)
Ladies Singles: Angelique Kerber (Germany)
Gentlemen's Doubles: Jamie Murray (Great Britain)/Bruno Soares (Brazil)
Ladies Doubles: Bethanie Mattek Sands (USA)/Lucie Safarova (Czech Republic)
Mixed Doubles: Laura Siegemund (Germany)/Mate Pavic (Croatia)
Boys Singles: Felix Auger-Aliassime (Canada)
Girls Singles: Kayla Day (USA)
Boys Doubles: Juan Carlos Aguilar (Bolivia)/Felipe Meligeni Alves (Brazil)
Girls Doubles: Jada Hart/Ena Shibahara (USA)
Gentlemen's Champions Doubles: Pat Cash/Mark Philippoussis (Australia)
Ladies Champions Doubles: Lindsay Davenport/Mary Joe Fernandez (USA)

Congratulations to all the champions!
Jenzen
12-09-2016
Delighted for Stan
Jenny1986
12-09-2016
While I haven't had a great time with this tournament for some reason, I'm really happy with all the winners and enjoyed the finals.

I still think Novak will win 2 slams next year, if he starts the year fresh he has the AO in the bag straight away. Although I want Andy to win it so badly. Novak obviously has issues mentally and physically, but whether they are long term is a mystery right now. It would be better for him to shut down his season and have a proper rest.

He will pass Rafa's total (I'm convinced Rafa has 1 more FO in him) but it's a couple of years worth of work to pass Fed's, so its difficult to say. He's still on course to do it. It depends how serious/frequent his injury becomes.
clever3000
12-09-2016
Well done to Stan, few people have played multiple grand slam finals and still have an 100% success rate. It was a strange major with Novak's route to the final. But well done to Stan. That backhand of his is one of the best in the game of all time.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Jaccobabe:
“As I Sais after W this is all very "mental".
It was the same withy Fed. He used to be down sp and mp and managed to come back to win. Thejn it changed. The other players felt it was possible to beat him.”

Yes, it's usually closer than we think at the very top of sports and then little things like you mention start to go the other way. We've also seen this with Serena when things get very tight. But she doesn't often meet many opponents who are consistently competitive with her, so the effect has been less pronounced. Though I doubt she has much left in her now. 1-2 slams max is my guess now.

I agree with you that I don't think Novak's going to dominate like recently but he may still match Rafa. I don't see him catching Roger. And the way the game has gone it may be very very hard for anyone else to break that record now. I.e., winning first slam at 21-22 is less and less likely. Even in the women's it's tough. And if by chance they do it's hard to establish immediate consistency.
Richard_Cranium
12-09-2016
Andy and Stan have the same number of slams now but andy has the far more consistent day to day record.

Stan has a tougher time in earlier rounds then andy but once he gets to finals he's almost invincible (11 for his last 11).
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Jenny1986:
“Novak obviously has issues mentally and physically, but whether they are long term is a mystery right now. It would be better for him to shut down his season and have a proper rest.”

Yes, he certainly has the points to manage it. Re: injuries, they catch up even with ridiculously injury-free Roger. So could be a serious hindrance to Novak. And they take longer to shake off as you get older.

Roger has been very smart in recent years in managing his schedule and still mostly sitting in the top 4.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by clever3000:
“It was a strange major with Novak's route to the final. But well done to Stan. That backhand of his is one of the best in the game of all time.”

Yes, this time around it wouldn't have sat right if Novak had won given his route to the final - even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

I'd like to see him at least match Rafa in slams but it would be nice for others to emerge. I'd like to see Andy get one or two more but it would be nice to see one or two from the new guard.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Richard_Cranium:
“Andy and Stan have the same number of slams now but andy has the far more consistent day to day record.”

Yes, that's almost exactly what Stan said himself.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Jenny1986:
“(I'm convinced Rafa has 1 more FO in him).”

I wouldn't say I'm convinced but I'd say the FO is now his only chance of another slam(s). If so, I agree most likely no more than one.
Barney06
12-09-2016
Just Wimbledon needed for Safarova & BMS for a career Grand Slam as well
david16
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by NewWorldMan:
“Yes, it's usually closer than we think at the very top of sports and then little things like you mention start to go the other way. We've also seen this with Serena when things get very tight. But she doesn't often meet many opponents who are consistently competitive with her, so the effect has been less pronounced. Though I doubt she has much left in her now. 1-2 slams max is my guess now.

I agree with you that I don't think Novak's going to dominate like recently but he may still match Rafa. I don't see him catching Roger. And the way the game has gone it may be very very hard for anyone else to break that record now. I.e., winning first slam at 21-22 is less and less likely. Even in the women's it's tough. And if by chance they do it's hard to establish immediate consistency.”

I miss the old 7/6 7/6 6/4 days of players trying to dictate from the net. Those were the days you did not need to have to constantly pass a high endurance test or be aged above 25 it seems now to win a grand slam title.
david16
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“YAY STAN!!!!

Didn't think he could do it (hence why I went onto the next conversation of Novak potentially dominating 2017 a little prematurely.)

Nonetheless I loved being proved wrong tonight.

Although as somebody mentioned earlier he's very capable of winning all 4 next year still, so watch out.

Mens tennis is so much better when we have different winners. This 'Big 4' conversation I think is going to have to widen its tent at some point I think.

How much longer can we talk about a 'Big 4' and not talk about Stan in the same breath?”


Hit the nail right on the head really. 3 (2 to 4) grand slam titles is no ordinary achievement.

That's why also nobody can dismiss Kafelnikov, Courier, Kuerten, Safin or Hewitt achievements of winning 2+ grand slam titles either.
LONERIDER37
12-09-2016
Made up for Stan, aged 27 no GS's, aged 31 3 GS's , nice going. He really has came on leaps and bounds. Just Wimby remaining for him now ha.
vaslav37
12-09-2016
Congratulations to Stan, really glad he won and in many ways he still very underated even though he won a slam every year for the past three years, sadly I cant him winning Wimbledon as his grass game seems weak.
Mike Teevee
12-09-2016
Stan dismisses his own claims to be considered alongside Roger, Rafa, Novak and Andy, but if we take out Andy's MS titles he's clearly on a par with him.

The concept of Big 4 was always flawed, as it came into effect even before Andy has won US Open.

There is no Big 4, but then again I'm not sure there's a Big 3 either (as I don't think Roger and Rafa will get back to their GS winning dominance)

While I can see why people might doubt him, I think Stan has a chance of winning Wimby next year.
Thomas007
12-09-2016
I think Stan might win the AO in January. He always performs well in that tournament and being 31 he'll want to strike the iron while its still hot.

If he produces that level of tennis in the latter stages of the AO he'll be very hard to stop.
vaslav37
12-09-2016
Stan has proved what a fabulous player he is by winning three slams. He should feel proud.
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