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The Tennis Thread (Part 31)
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roger_50
12-09-2016
I think he's done remarkably well to hold 3 slams and catch Murray up again. He really is making the most of his rare opportunities when they come to him.

Looking back, Andy should really have found some way to produce better tennis in his finals and sneak a couple more to add to his name by now, but there you go. He does struggle in big matches against top players sometimes, and his style of play often differs to what came before in the tournament.

Wawrinka on the other hand just hits through the ball like a juggernaut no matter what match it is or who the opponent is. Often, he sprays his shots all over the place and gets dumped out early, occasionally it all clicks and he is unbeatable.

Is it confidence? I feel Andy has a superior set of skills - his overall career stats and range of shots proves this - but with Stan you feel confidence is a thing he rarely has to worry about; a bad day at the office is just a bad day at the office. And it's allowed him to blast his way to 3 grand slam titles.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“
The concept of Big 4 was always flawed, as it came into effect even before Andy has won US Open.”

These things are always a bit rough and ready but there was a period of time when Andy was at least consistently reaching semis and finals along with the three others.
Mike Teevee
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by roger_50:
“I think he's done remarkably well to hold 3 slams and catch Murray up again. He really is making the most of his rare opportunities when they come to him.

Looking back, Andy should really have found some way to produce better tennis in his finals and sneak a couple more to add to his name by now, but there you go. He does struggle in big matches against top players sometimes, and his style of play often differs to what came before in the tournament.

Wawrinka on the other hand just hits through the ball like a juggernaut no matter what match it is or who the opponent is. Often, he sprays his shots all over the place and gets dumped out early, occasionally it all clicks and he is unbeatable.

Is it confidence? I feel Andy has a superior set of skills - his overall career stats and range of shots proves this - but with Stan you feel confidence is a thing he rarely has to worry about; a bad day at the office is just a bad day at the office. And it's allowed him to blast his way to 3 grand slam titles.”

I think the two most disappointing finals performances from Andy were against Roger at AO in 2010 and to a lesser extent Wimby 2012. In 2010 Andy (imo obviously) played the best tennis of anybody over the two weeks, then basically froze in the final. Even in the third set he had a least two opportunities to take the set (serving 5-3 and set point in tie break).

Wimbledon slightly less of a freeze, but he fell away after 5-5 in second set and never got going again.

For all the people who rave about his first serve, his weak second serve and lack of a killer forehand hurt Andy when he's under pressure.

I still think he can win more GS, but the window of opportunity is closing.
Damien_Johnson
12-09-2016
Wawrinka has better mental strength than Murray.

No doubting who the better player is overall, but if that was Murray yesterday, he would've found something to whinge about and get himself distracted.

Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are all more mentally composed.

Murray should be sitting on around 5 or 6 Grand Slams if he was more mature.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by roger_50:
“Looking back, Andy should really have found some way to produce better tennis in his finals and sneak a couple more to add to his name by now, but there you go. He does struggle in big matches against top players sometimes, and his style of play often differs to what came before in the tournament.”

A few things.

He's been unfortunate in that almost all of his finals have been against peak or near-peak Novak and Roger.

His second serve has been a serious handicap against Roger, Rafa and Novak (also affects his first-serve percentage against these guys). Had it been a bit better it might have landed him at least another slam.

He's less mentally robust in that when he loses it he can't refocus as quickly as, say, Novak does.

Roger and Rafa rarely lose it (as in losing their rag) of course.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Damien_Johnson:
“Wawrinka has better mental strength than Murray.

No doubting who the better player is overall, but if that was Murray yesterday, he would've found something to whinge about and get himself distracted.

Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are all more mentally composed.

Murray should be sitting on around 5 or 6 Grand Slams if he was more mature.”

You beat me to it. I agree with all points.

Novak whinges as well but refocuses immediately. Bit like McEnroe of old (he being way more extreme of course ).
amelia_lee
12-09-2016
I'm really happy for Stan, to win three slams, and them be at different slams too, amazing. Also to have won all three from three finals, big game player for sure. He always had the raw talent, it's amazing to see him put it together to achieve so much.
Magnus, for me, is one o the best coaches and an understated one at that.

He's a little off, but Stan must believe in the 'Stan slam', it must mean a Wimbledon win next year, for sure.


About the big 3/4, I've never really bought into it and have my theories why it came about. Obviously Roger and Rafa have dipped now and there was a period when Andy didn't do well at all and clearly he has less then the other three.
I think the media like to use it as a tool of describing how many things had been won or how many finals had been shared with them. It started with them just using Roger and Rafa when they had won everything between them for years, then Novak started to win more and Andy in the finals. For me, it's a soundbite they use, but something I really
don't like or like to use as a thing.
Obviously now Stan is up there, kind of on a par with Andy.


Also, I'm so, so happy for Angie, what a turnaround this year has been for her, two slams and the number one!
roger_50
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by NewWorldMan:
“He's been unfortunate in that almost all of his finals have been against peak or near-peak Novak and Roger.”

I guess the only problem with that statement is that Andy himself had often been playing a level of tennis on a par with those two throughout the 2 weeks before the final, but lowered his level when it mattered.

Generally speaking, Novak and Fed simply played their usual game throughout the slam tournaments they won, apart from the occasional dip in a set here and there over the 2 weeks.

In comparison, Andy just didn't turn up for some of his finals with those two and completely lost his previous level (I don't include the 2008 US Open final, which was flatout unfair on him with the scheduling). So yes, while it's unfortunate for him that he didn't meet easier opponents in his finals, it doesn't make up for his own clearly visible step-down in form in many of those crucial matches.
vaslav37
12-09-2016
Who will win in Melbourne?

Wawrinka, Murray or Djokovic?

I still feel Nadal has one more Slam in him but that could only be at Roland Garros.

I don't think Federer will win another slam now.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by roger_50:
“So yes, while it's unfortunate for him that he didn't meet easier opponents in his finals, it doesn't make up for his own clearly visible step-down in form in many of those crucial matches.”

Yes, you have to combine it with the other weaknesses I mentioned. If those weren't there then he may have won one or two of those encounters. The weaknesses tended not to matter so much against lesser opponents.
NewWorldMan
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by vaslav37:
“Who will win in Melbourne?

Wawrinka, Murray or Djokovic?

I still feel Nadal has one more Slam in him but that could only be at Roland Garros.

I don't think Federer will win another slam now.”

One of those three I guess.

Agree on Nadal. Probably at most one at French but could well be zero.

Roger - yes his last chances were against Novak. Next year might be his last depending on how his body holds up.
Sarn
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by dduk:
“So if Serena does lose then, it will be cause 'Serena was injured' and not cause Pliskova played really well? I assume that's how the media will see it. But it would be nice if Pliskova got the credit for playing well.”

Of course . You should be used to it by now.
vaslav37
12-09-2016
I sense Andy & Stan are now the main threats to Djokovic and his Number 1 ranking.
Sarn
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Jenny_Sawyer:
“Did Justine Henin ever win the US Open?”

Twice - 2003 and 2007
Sarn
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by WhoAteMeDinner:
“Has Djokovic ever not been "injured" when he loses a set ?

This level of gamesmanship and his use of an oxygen egg, which is similar to Lance Armstrong's "blood in a fridge" routine leaves me in no doubt this guy is a massive cheat.

No injury time-outs, you can't play, you lose.”

Well said
Sarn
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“Good luck to Jamie Murray and Soares in their final today. I can't really take to Kerber - she seems so dismissive of her opponents to me - graceless.”

Hmm - Carla Suarez Navarro does'nt appear to agree with you

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsG_4X8UMAEzlVu.jpg

Angie is one of the nicest players on tour - that's why she's my fave and I love her tennis too
Jinga
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“I think the two most disappointing finals performances from Andy were against Roger at AO in 2010 and to a lesser extent Wimby 2012. In 2010 Andy (imo obviously) played the best tennis of anybody over the two weeks, then basically froze in the final. Even in the third set he had a least two opportunities to take the set (serving 5-3 and set point in tie break).

Wimbledon slightly less of a freeze, but he fell away after 5-5 in second set and never got going again.

For all the people who rave about his first serve, his weak second serve and lack of a killer forehand hurt Andy when he's under pressure.

I still think he can win more GS, but the window of opportunity is closing.”

I would say the AO of 2015- Andy was sensational but still lost. Also possibly the AO of 2013. I think he did as well as he could in Wimbledon 2012 - the roof was closed
Jenny1986
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Sarn:
“Hmm - Carla Suarez Navarro does'nt appear to agree with you

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsG_4X8UMAEzlVu.jpg

Angie is one of the nicest players on tour - that's why she's my fave and I love her tennis too ”

She's had a few cold handshakes in her time, which is perhaps where that opinion comes from. Personally I have never heard anything bad about her from other players, she's good friends with Aga and her sister. Her twitter feed is full of other players congratulating her, including Puig. She seems pretty well liked behind the scenes to me.
vaslav37
12-09-2016
Andy really deserves to win in Melbourne- five defeats in the final there now.
Sarn
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by jos:
“Surprise surprise he's making a comeback. He's such a cheat imo.”

I've said it for years, hence why I'm disliked on here
detroitcity
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by vaslav37:
“Who will win in Melbourne?

Wawrinka, Murray or Djokovic?

I still feel Nadal has one more Slam in him but that could only be at Roland Garros.

I don't think Federer will win another slam now.”

It wouldn't surprice me if Raonic reached the final. Think he could possibly win a slam next year.
planets
12-09-2016
Originally Posted by Sarn:
“I've said it for years, hence why I'm disliked on here ”

I like to buck a trend Sarn!! I like you
Jinga
12-09-2016
Being an Andy fan is annoying. I love Wawrinka but this one feels like a missed opportunity because he couldn't control his emotions. I wonder if Lendl will stay - can't imagine him turning a blind eye to his abuse to the box
CLL Dodge
13-09-2016
And the tennis calendar moves on from NYC:

On the WTA Tour Naomi Broady is seeded 5th in Quebec City ($250,000) plays Oceane Dodin

In ITF/USTA action:

Laura Robson is in Atlanta ($50,000), plays wildcard Julia Elbaba.

The other Brits (Katie Swan, Lisa Whybourn, Freya Christie, Katie Boulter, Harriet Dart) are in Lubbock ($25,000)

In Europe Amanda Carreras plays in Biarritz, France ($100,000)

Away from Davis Cup action the only Brits on the ATP Challenger tour are:

Aljaž Bedene, seeded 3rd in Banjaluka, Bosnia (€64,000).

Brydan Klein & Cameron Norrie are in Cary, North Carolina ($50,000). Irishman James McGee has qualified here.
owen10
13-09-2016
Originally Posted by Damien_Johnson:
“Wawrinka has better mental strength than Murray.

No doubting who the better player is overall, but if that was Murray yesterday, he would've found something to whinge about and get himself distracted.

Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are all more mentally composed.

Murray should be sitting on around 5 or 6 Grand Slams if he was more mature.”

He should have at least won an Australian Open, but he faced two of the greatest players of all time in Federer and Djokovic in the finals

And Djokovic loves the Australian Open
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