Did you miss the bit in this episode where he told Negan that he killed his own mother or the original episode where he did that?

Haha, I could only recall after I posted, that he killed the young boy in the woods. That was when Hershel knew Carl was a psycho.

Oh, how patronising.
Lori was dead, or seconds from death, when he shot her.

I'm sure he was ok with it. The baby would not have understood what he was saying, and his body language, tone and volume were friendly, so it wouldn't have affected the baby in any way. Plus, there would have been a small army of child welfare people nearby in case of any distress.

I'm sure 'Judith's' seen and heard much worse before.

I found that really implausible. A strange man walks into a toddler's bedroom and picks her up and she doesn't cry and object? Sorry would never happen.

Then she's curled up sleeping on his chest in their next scene. I don't think so. That isn't how children of that age behave, especially not in those circumstances. It would have been more credible if he'd been talking and engaging with her while she was on his lap.

No, he's killed more people than Charles Manson.

It absolutely could. As I say above, at that age, babies react to visual and audible behaviour. Obviously each baby is different, but in general, if you're happy and smiley towards them and don't anything that might obviously upset them, it's not a given that they'll freak out at being picked up by a stranger.

Plus, within the context of the show, Judith's been passed from pillar to post all throughout her short life, so she's probably well used to being handled by strangers.

Although he didn't kill her, he shot her after she died to stop her coming back.

It was Maggie that ultimately killed her, by giving her an emergency C-section, and Carl went back to stop her re-animating.

I disagree. Not in my experience but then this is the baby that never makes a sound during all moments of crisis to alert walkers etc, so I don't expect it to be believable.

If a total stranger walks up to a child of that age and just picks them up, they react., even if they just squirm to get away. Stranger anxiety is a normal part of toddler's development and I've never seen an exception. I'm just making the point that the Judith scenes aren't plausible to me and the atmosphere of tension from others present when Negan is in a room would make such a non reaction even less credible.

Yeah but I shouldn't have to use the subtitle button really

Hammer, murder plot?

Ahhh I see, cheers

or Shane?

i love when people dont pay attention to what they watch but revel in finding out spoilers

He killed neither his Mother or Shane. Both were already dead when he shot them.

Try paying attention

I'm still loving Negan as a villain. I can see how some people are unable to see the complexity behind him but Carl identified it in this episode - Negan must strike a balance between fear, threats and physical violence. He's clearly a sociopath and is so fascinating because we never know what way that scale is going to tip.

the reason i think no one had tried to kill negan is the repercussions if they fail not only will your face be melted your loved ones will pay the ultimate price and while someone may be willing to risk thier life if it fails ,,,,not many will want to risk their loved ones livesand as long as your one of Negans selected few you have it pretty good

and plus the "peasants" are safe from walkers and other gangs.. reasonably well fed have some creature comforts (as long as they follow the rules Negan sets out ) ..and some have probably had it rougher than Ricks lot out in the wilds so why upset the status quo

I might be wrong, but I don't think Manson actually physically killed anyone himself, like directly.

ha mixed up with comic books, in books he shoots him first, in tv rick did

JDM and the crew would never want a real child to be upset. Sometimes I see children being used and they are in real distress. I think JDM spent a long time reassuring her so that she cuddled up to him. I would rather see that than a child in distress because they can't hide that.

I agree with you. It's just not something you can portray on screen without harming a child and no one would condone that. I just think they could have written it differently and given the audience the effect by having him befriend and interact with Judith. What they actually filmed just didn't work and it was obvious she was being distracted by people off screen.

After being snuggled iniside a cape smothered in zombie guts I doubt anything fazes Judith

Plus they had fresh veg that day!

Yeah, but they had the barbecue spare ribs the day before....

Couldn't resist going on the spoiling dead site. Another bloody episode but not unexpected and hopefully the story will move forward.

I think the mid-season finale is next week. Hence so many of the plots ending with cliff-hangers in this episode.

Carl, Michonne and Rosita all independently have plans to kill Negan. I blame Rick for that. He's failed as leader so totally that he virtually gave up their ability to resist. With no leader they are running around like headless chickens, and not communicating or coordinating. We don't get to see how any of these pan out. I mean, we know Carl failed but we don't know what his punishment will be.

Then we have Daryl's escape attempt (presumably it was Jesus gave him the note) and Rick's attempt to cross the moat. So that's five cliff-hangers in this episode. I feel that's excessive.


He enjoys power, but they are able to refuse him, as Olivia did, with no consequences. Amber was afraid, but that was because her boyfriend had got caught breaking the rules. Her boyfriend got punished regardless of whether she continued being a wife. I agree many of them don't desire to be with him, but they do prefer the lifestyle of being a wife over the alternative of working for points. I think if you call this rape, then you pretty much have to say that all sex with prostitutes is rape. I know some people believe that, but in my view it devalues the word to use it so broadly. Regardless, he would not have forced all the women of Oceanside to be his wives, nor would he have made them "playthings for his men to enjoy" as anotherlongers suggested. They could have refused.