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Old 19-12-2016, 14:26
Philip Wales
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I was watching the Digital Foundry Youtube today and it appears the Switch from what I can gather is about half as powerful as the Nvidea Shield Console!!

I really hope Nintendo have gone down the Pascal route and not opted for technology thats getting on for 2 years old.
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Old 19-12-2016, 15:55
jjesso123
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So some more details are emerging about Switch's capabilities when running as a console vs as a handheld.

CPU power remains the same at all times, running at 1020MHz whether the machine is docked or undocked. This means that basic mechanics of games will be identical in both instances

Switch's memory runs at 1600MHz while docked but will usually drop to 1331MHz when used in handheld mode. Developers can boost this back up to the max speed if they choose to, although this is likely to have an impact on battery life.

The GPU when docked runs at 768MHz, but falls significantly to just 307.2MHz in handheld mode. This will preserve battery life while limiting overheating. In this mode games will run at a much lower resolution than when plugged into a TV, but remember the screen in use will be smaller and of a lower resolution compared to a HDTV anyway. As a benchmark comparison, the same GPU runs at 1000MHz in a Shield Android console.

What does this mean then? In real terms, I think Switch will be somewhere near Wii U level graphics when running as a handheld. When plugged into the dock and running on the TV there will be enough extra power to boost the visuals up to 1080p, so games will retain that familiar Nintendo-style aesthetic but with more clarity and smooth gameplay that should look nice on the big screen.

So it's no powerhouse, and I think major third-party adoption could be an issue again, but hopefully the conservative specs will keep prices low and combined with the adaptability of the machine will appeal to a wide market.
That does not sound promising at all. and regarding your previous post it will most likely be maxwell.
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Old 19-12-2016, 16:00
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So it's no powerhouse, and I think major third-party adoption could be an issue again, but hopefully the conservative specs will keep prices low and combined with the adaptability of the machine will appeal to a wide market.
The bit in bold, if you're correct, is disasterous news. As we saw with the Wii U, the first party games alone, however good they may be, are not enough to sustain their console. They need some of the big third-party hitters-the Assassin's Creeds, the Fallouts, the Red Deads etc-in order to have any chance of a) the Switch being a success and b) having any future as console developers. They got away with it once with the Wii U. They won't be able to get away with it again.
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Old 19-12-2016, 16:17
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The bit in bold, if you're correct, is disasterous news. As we saw with the Wii U, the first party games alone, however good they may be, are not enough to sustain their console. They need some of the big third-party hitters-the Assassin's Creeds, the Fallouts, the Red Deads etc-in order to have any chance of a) the Switch being a success and b) having any future as console developers. They got away with it once with the Wii U. They won't be able to get away with it again.
But 3DS did huge business without all these franchises. If you think of Switch as primarily a (powerful) handheld, but with a bonus TV mode for home and social play. I'm not convinced it's as big an issue as people think it is.
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Old 20-12-2016, 02:09
grazey1985
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So as per usual it's underpowered compared to its competitors. I don't get why people are shocked about this. It's been the same story since the nes era. Master system had arguably better specs same with the mega drive/Genesis with the snes etc. It's normal Nintendo always pick games over hardware
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Old 20-12-2016, 03:08
grimtales1
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How underpowered is it really? I dont think we'll really know until the announcement next year.
I didnt expect it to be really powerful but some people seem pretty disappointed
I thought Switch was going to be a home console first and a handheld second, not the other way round.
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Old 20-12-2016, 05:56
snafu65
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But 3DS did huge business without all these franchises. If you think of Switch as primarily a (powerful) handheld, but with a bonus TV mode for home and social play. I'm not convinced it's as big an issue as people think it is.
If I get one it will primarily remain docked and I'll play it on a big screen, I've never really been a handheld person, so good third party support will be crucial for me.
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Old 20-12-2016, 13:33
fastest finger
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If I get one it will primarily remain docked and I'll play it on a big screen, I've never really been a handheld person, so good third party support will be crucial for me.
Obviously we all have our personal preferences on how we would use a device like Switch (I'm with you on that score) and whether it's worth owning, but for its overall chances of success I think a lot hangs on how Nintendo market it.

If they aim at younger people as a very capable and versatile handheld, a true successor to 3DS, they could do very well.

But if people think it's just a PlayStation / Xbox competitor, but underpowered and lacking support, it's going to die horribly.

Nintendo seem to to playing on the versatility as it's USP. That's great for appealing to a wider audience. But if they've spread themselves too thinly and created too many compromises they could end up appealing to nobody.
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Old 20-12-2016, 13:52
Philip Wales
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Well if Digital Foundry is correct in handheld mode it will run at 307mhz. This now means developers may need to produce 2 versions of their game.

And if as Fastest says "it's a handheld" well this goes against everything Nintendo have said, and secondly what happens to the 3ds, Nintendo will cut into their own exclusive market. If the drop the 3ds, there's going to be lots of pissed of owners.
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Old 21-12-2016, 07:27
jjesso123
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Well if Digital Foundry is correct in handheld mode it will run at 307mhz. This now means developers may need to produce 2 versions of their game.

And if as Fastest says "it's a handheld" well this goes against everything Nintendo have said, and secondly what happens to the 3ds, Nintendo will cut into their own exclusive market. If the drop the 3ds, there's going to be lots of pissed of owners.
No they won't have to make two versions of the same game. Basically like Nvidia stated on there blog it scales the graphics when It's docked or when it's in handheld mode.

How underpowered is it really? I dont think we'll really know until the announcement next year.
I didnt expect it to be really powerful but some people seem pretty disappointed
I thought Switch was going to be a home console first and a handheld second, not the other way round.
People are disappointed as they expected it to be on par or even better than the nvidia shield. I still can't process this information, I can't see single reason for this not to be on par with the shield. For me really does not matter all care about is nintendos games zelda, mario and see where they take the pokemon game confirmed for the switch.

however anyone wanting decent third party support can kiss that good buy as there is not hells chance of it even running some basic PS4/XB1 games. Unless really missing something here in all honesty It looks barely more powerful than the WII U.
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Old 21-12-2016, 09:53
grazey1985
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No they won't have to make two versions of the same game. Basically like Nvidia stated on there blog it scales the graphics when It's docked or when it's in handheld mode.



People are disappointed as they expected it to be on par or even better than the nvidia shield. I still can't process this information, I can't see single reason for this not to be on par with the shield. For me really does not matter all care about is nintendos games zelda, mario and see where they take the pokemon game confirmed for the switch.

however anyone wanting decent third party support can kiss that good buy as there is not hells chance of it even running some basic PS4/XB1 games. Unless really missing something here in all honesty It looks barely more powerful than the WII U.

Yet it's been heavily mooted that dark souls 3 is heading to the switch as they have it running at a level they are pleased with and that's a ps4 game http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/1...ogy-rerelease/
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Old 21-12-2016, 10:26
jjesso123
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Yet it's been heavily mooted that dark souls 3 is heading to the switch as they have it running at a level they are pleased with and that's a ps4 game http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/1...ogy-rerelease/
Yes however the developer couldn't even make a PC game that rendered a multiple resolutions, higher than 30fps resulted in many issues, without taking in consideration the mods people had to make it's worst PC release ever. IF their is a port I doubt it will be anything get excited about.
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Old 21-12-2016, 12:20
brb
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Not sure why people expected more, to be honest. The current president thought the Wii was too powerful at the time... Surely this was inevitable?
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Old 21-12-2016, 12:46
grimtales1
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No they won't have to make two versions of the same game. Basically like Nvidia stated on there blog it scales the graphics when It's docked or when it's in handheld mode.



People are disappointed as they expected it to be on par or even better than the nvidia shield. I still can't process this information, I can't see single reason for this not to be on par with the shield. For me really does not matter all care about is nintendos games zelda, mario and see where they take the pokemon game confirmed for the switch.

however anyone wanting decent third party support can kiss that good buy as there is not hells chance of it even running some basic PS4/XB1 games. Unless really missing something here in all honesty It looks barely more powerful than the WII U.
Its a bit more powerful than the Wii U when in "handheld mode" apparently.
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Old 21-12-2016, 15:16
jjesso123
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Its a bit more powerful than the Wii U when in "handheld mode" apparently.
We really never did learn much about the WII U's GPU other than the fact it was based on the amds 5 series GPU. Considering the 4000's series where running at 700MHZ. This means the WII U GPU could be more comparison with the docked switch than the handheld mode. The CPU is even harder to compare, if we where just looking at clock speeds It's half the speed of the WII U's CPU, however there is lot more to it than simple comparisons like that.


Until we get full picture It's hard to make a comparison there is some important information missing from the above leaked specs, the confirmation that the switch will be taking advantage of vulkan could mean significant performance even if the SPECS are on the weak side.
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Old 21-12-2016, 19:24
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The thing that could save the Switch is that it's a handheld console too. There is no way it can compete with Microsoft and Sony as a home console, but as a handheld it can do well.
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Old 22-12-2016, 06:09
snafu65
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Nintendo could make a console to compete with MS and Sony but they pulled out of the console arms race a long time ago. It worked with Wii but failed with Wii U, only time will tell if Switch can pull it off.
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Old 22-12-2016, 10:13
Philip Wales
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The thing that could save the Switch is that it's a handheld console too. There is no way it can compete with Microsoft and Sony as a home console, but as a handheld it can do well.
But they already have a handheld thats the market leader, so whats the point in making another?

^^The Wii was an anomaly, Nintendo for years going right back to the N64 have been screwing up their consoles and their fans.
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Old 22-12-2016, 12:08
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But they already have a handheld thats the market leader, so whats the point in making another?
Because the 3DS hardware is very old. It takes a lot of effort to develop for and has some rather hard limitations in terms of performance and memory. It's hilarious that you'll criticise Nintendo for not having some PS4-like device running off a battery, but will at the same time, criticise them for not sticking with a limited handheld device that is very difficult to work with.
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Old 23-12-2016, 00:08
Cestrian18
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The thing that could save the Switch is that it's a handheld console too. There is no way it can compete with Microsoft and Sony as a home console, but as a handheld it can do well.
The problem I see it having is that it doesn't have a clear identity, I get the need to replace the 3DS but if you're trying to market it as a home console, and a handheld, Joe public won't have a clue, the muddled marketing killed off the Wii U before it got started- The main thing they got right with the Wii was the 'we all play together' thing which really took off- You had grannies flailing with the motion co trollers trying to bowl. So they got away with essentially repacking a GameCube peripheral.

It looks like Nintendo is going down the route of marketing this as a home console that you can take with you didn't really work in the context of either of Sony's handhelds- Massive gamerbase but they didn't migrate despite some hefty exclusives and third party support on both- I can definitely see the Switch suffering a similar fate
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Old 23-12-2016, 00:34
jjesso123
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The problem I see it having is that it doesn't have a clear identity, I get the need to replace the 3DS but if you're trying to market it as a home console, and a handheld, Joe public won't have a clue, the muddled marketing killed off the Wii U before it got started- The main thing they got right with the Wii was the 'we all play together' thing which really took off- You had grannies flailing with the motion co trollers trying to bowl. So they got away with essentially repacking a GameCube peripheral.

It looks like Nintendo is going down the route of marketing this as a home console that you can take with you didn't really work in the context of either of Sony's handhelds- Massive gamerbase but they didn't migrate despite some hefty exclusives and third party support on both- I can definitely see the Switch suffering a similar fate
They've confirmed a Pokemon game on it. This on it's on own will make sure the system sells way more than the WII U.
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Old 24-12-2016, 08:34
BinaryDad
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It looks like Nintendo is going down the route of marketing this as a home console that you can take with you didn't really work in the context of either of Sony's handhelds- Massive gamerbase but they didn't migrate despite some hefty exclusives and third party support on both- I can definitely see the Switch suffering a similar fate
The PSP sold quite well - just not as well as the DS. Not to mention that there was a massive policy mess-up from Sony - not allowing direct ports of PS2 titles, which is what the massive PS2 user base really wanted (me included - as somebody who loved the idea of the PSP enough to pay a massively inflated price to get one the same week it launched in Japan).

Switch is a completely different kettle of fish though - the whole idea is that ports of all the typical games you'd want to play at home, as well as on the move, aren't ports at all. The idea is that they can be played anywhere.

You could argue that the PSP sort of did this, but you were tethered to the TV with the cable. Switch doesn't have that issue with wireless controllers - and it gives you two out of the box, making local multiplayer immediately accessible without any other purchase.

Add to that Nintendo's heavy hitting IP - and there's a lot that could make the Switch very appealing to a large audience. Of course...I could be more than a bit biased here.
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Old 24-12-2016, 14:55
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PSP was well short of the DS's 150 odd million sales but still sold a respectable 82 million units. The Vita though, which is more in line with Switch in initially promising console quality games on a handheld, sold nowhere near that.
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Old 26-12-2016, 01:05
CardioCortez
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I seem to remember a lot of PSPs going onto the second-hand market though not long after their sale. Mine and my brother's did due to the lack of quality games around release.
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Old 26-12-2016, 01:13
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PSP was well short of the DS's 150 odd million sales but still sold a respectable 82 million units. The Vita though, which is more in line with Switch in initially promising console quality games on a handheld, sold nowhere near that.
The Vita delivered on console quality games, the problem was you could list them all on two hands: Uncharted, Gravity Rush, Wipeout, Killzone, Tearaway, Little Big Planet and Resistance.

Everything else on Vita was either a very poorly executed game (Batman/Call Of Duty/Assassins Creed), indie titles, or games aimed at extremely niche/eastern markets that wouldn't do well over here regardless of graphical fidelity.

As long as Nintendo actually put all their weight behind the Switch (which - let's face it, they kinda have to), then the Vita and the Switch aren't really that comparable.
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