Hutchison takes legal action against EU over failed O2 & Three merger

Everything Goes · 29-07-2016, 22:45

Hutchison who own Three are taking legal action against the EU over the blocking Three and O2's merger. This may be aimed at the ambitions for further mergers in the EU especially Italy.

Quote:

Victory in court would be unlikely to revive the UK tie-up, as the agreement between Hutchison and O2's owner Telefonica has lapsed. The Spanish giant is now working toward floating a minority stake in O2.

However, Hutchison could seek compensation and seek to set a precedent for further consolidation of the European mobile market. It is in the midst of a takeover in Italy, for instance, and needs EU approval.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...three-o2-merg/

Gigabit · 29-07-2016, 23:45

Thank Goodness this was disallowed.

I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer!

errea · 30-07-2016, 19:30

Blocking it was bad for the consumer.

It would have made a decent network out of O2/3 and given a solid platform for MVNO access from Tesco, Sky, iD and more. Plus it would have been genuine competition to godawful BT (EE).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

Thank Goodness this was disallowed.

I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer!

red_snow · 30-07-2016, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by errea

Blocking it was bad for the consumer.

It would have made a decent network out of O2/3 and given a solid platform for MVNO access from Tesco, Sky, iD and more. Plus it would have been genuine competition to godawful BT (EE).

Couldn't agree more

Denco1 · 30-07-2016, 19:47

The combined network assets could have made a decent network, with the right management.

But is anyone really confident Hutchison would have delivered that, especially with the way they've been running Three at the moment.

clewsy · 30-07-2016, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

Thank Goodness this was disallowed.

I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer!

Bang on. The best decision the EU made.

Gigabit · 30-07-2016, 20:18

Creating a monopoly provider doesn't create competition.

Stereo Steve · 30-07-2016, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

Creating a monopoly provider doesn't create competition.

Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice.

clewsy · 30-07-2016, 21:10

No left us with 4 networks and they should all be competing for your business and as such lowering prices, increasing coverage and creating more jobs.

It's not for a merger to solve a poorly managed business. If they have planned spectrum poorly, that is their management to sort out and decide a strategy to manage.

jchamier · 30-07-2016, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice.

Yeah VO2 don't care about the south west. Voda works well here and in Bristol, but on M4 there are still patches of GPRS only. EE is at least 3G and 4G in most places now, and Three is similar. VO2 have a long way to go.

d123 · 30-07-2016, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

Thank Goodness this was disallowed.

I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer!

Well said.

Let's hope CK Hutch get a bloody nose from the ECJ as well.

plymouthbloke1974 · 30-07-2016, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice.

Hmmm... I suppose you'll say the same thing in a few years when EE, already the biggest network for combined coverage goes to 99.9% 4G coverage and over 95% geographical coverage?

lightspeed2398 · 30-07-2016, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stereo Steve

Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice.

I agree Three is hamstrung and a bit shit but o2 in fairness despite the financial problems does seem to be doing its best to get to its coverage obligation, They have big capacity issues but they're dealing with them in a reasonably good way for now.

lightspeed2398 · 30-07-2016, 22:55

For the Three o2 merger I don't think it'd be good in the short-medium term competition wise. Those two networks would put themselves out of the game whilst they reshuffle management and merge two pretty dissimilar networks. Orange and T-Mobile were fairly alike technology wise and look how long that's taken. Long term I think they'd be ok but by the time they've got the aforementioned done where would the others be. Plus that's assuming there would be no conditions on the merger and that's not likely. If they have to sell spectrum or certain assets it'll take longer and put them in a worse off position in the long term. Plus it'll certainly mean an end to Three's general lower pricing structure and attempts to be innovative to get market share.

jchamier · 30-07-2016, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

Hmmm... I suppose you'll say the same thing in a few years when EE, already the biggest network for combined coverage goes to 99.9% 4G coverage and over 95% geographical coverage?

I think Steve likes EE and Three, its the lack of change from VO2 he's concerned about.

errea · 31-07-2016, 03:44

You have a dog in the fight?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Well said.

Let's hope CK Hutch get a bloody nose from the ECJ as well.

Everything Goes · 31-07-2016, 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed2398

I agree Three is hamstrung and a bit shit but o2 in fairness despite the financial problems does seem to be doing its best to get to its coverage obligation, They have big capacity issues but they're dealing with them in a reasonably good way for now.

I suspect O2 will struggle to meet its coverage obligation by the end of 2017.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1937180

d123 · 31-07-2016, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by errea

You have a dog in the fight?

I just dislike the arrogant attitude shown by CKH, they deserve to lose...

Thine Wonk · 31-07-2016, 11:37

Really? We hadn't noticed.

Stereo Steve · 31-07-2016, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

Hmmm... I suppose you'll say the same thing in a few years when EE, already the biggest network for combined coverage goes to 99.9% 4G coverage and over 95% geographical coverage?

Not at all. It's just they will have no competition. 3 and O2 are not well placed to compete due to lack of spectrum and the only one who can, VOD, are refusing to bother, repeating their 3G failure and doing cities and motorways.

Being able to roam between 3 and O2 would make quite a decent network. That is all.

Gigabit · 31-07-2016, 13:36

Yes but then what do Vodafone do? They all have the ability to improve their networks.

You say Vodafone aren't trying. It doesn't look like Three or O2 are trying either. A merger is a lazy way to enhance coverage without doing anything.

Pencil · 31-07-2016, 13:51

The EU may be a German-led, over-paid, bloated, highly corrupt and anti-democratic bureaucracy, hell bent on continental domination, but on this occasion, they did the consumer a favour.

Thine Wonk · 31-07-2016, 15:02

In blocking a relatively small network and another network from merging to build a network with enough capacity for years to come who are able to compete effectively again the massive (2nd largest in the world) Vodafone and the giant (incumbent, former state) BT who is already massively dominant in multiple markets.

Yeah, if course they did, thank goodness they blocked it otherwise consumers would have faced big price rises through ineffective competition.

Oh wait...

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...odge-the-hikes

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2169399

Tassium · 31-07-2016, 15:07

The shape of things to come if that TTIP thing ever got implemented.

jchamier · 31-07-2016, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

In blocking a relatively small network and another network from merging to build a network with enough capacity for years to come who are able to compete effectively again the massive (2nd largest in the world) Vodafone and the giant (incumbent, former state) BT who is already massively dominant in multiple markets.

Hutchison 3G and Telefonica UK (trading as O2) could have bought sufficient spectrum from Ofcom at the auction - at the time EE was nothing to do with BT. Vodafone and EE bought a lot of spectrum. Three prefer to complain but its their customers whom have poor experience.

The Orange PAYG price rises don't surprise me, what does is that the EE PAYG are not rising as well - this makes me wonder if Orange (France) want more money in brand fees from BT Group ?

Vodafone Group have just realised how much money they need to put into the UK network, more than the Group had realised, after previous execs like Chris Gent had run it into the ground.

29-07-2016, 22:45	#1
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Hutchison takes legal action against EU over failed O2 & Three merger Hutchison who own Three are taking legal action against the EU over the blocking Three and O2's merger. This may be aimed at the ambitions for further mergers in the EU especially Italy. Quote: Victory in court would be unlikely to revive the UK tie-up, as the agreement between Hutchison and O2's owner Telefonica has lapsed. The Spanish giant is now working toward floating a minority stake in O2. However, Hutchison could seek compensation and seek to set a precedent for further consolidation of the European mobile market. It is in the midst of a takeover in Italy, for instance, and needs EU approval. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...three-o2-merg/

29-07-2016, 23:45	#2
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Thank Goodness this was disallowed. I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer!

30-07-2016, 19:30	#3
errea Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Not leaving the EU (quite yet) Posts: 300	Blocking it was bad for the consumer. It would have made a decent network out of O2/3 and given a solid platform for MVNO access from Tesco, Sky, iD and more. Plus it would have been genuine competition to godawful BT (EE). Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit Thank Goodness this was disallowed. I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer!

30-07-2016, 19:44	#4
red_snow Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 133	Quote: Originally Posted by errea Blocking it was bad for the consumer. It would have made a decent network out of O2/3 and given a solid platform for MVNO access from Tesco, Sky, iD and more. Plus it would have been genuine competition to godawful BT (EE). Couldn't agree more

30-07-2016, 19:47	#5
Denco1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 983	The combined network assets could have made a decent network, with the right management. But is anyone really confident Hutchison would have delivered that, especially with the way they've been running Three at the moment.

30-07-2016, 19:47	#6
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit Thank Goodness this was disallowed. I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer! Bang on. The best decision the EU made.

30-07-2016, 20:18	#7
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Creating a monopoly provider doesn't create competition.

30-07-2016, 21:07	#8
Stereo Steve Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,378	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit Creating a monopoly provider doesn't create competition. Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice.

30-07-2016, 21:10	#9
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	No left us with 4 networks and they should all be competing for your business and as such lowering prices, increasing coverage and creating more jobs. It's not for a merger to solve a poorly managed business. If they have planned spectrum poorly, that is their management to sort out and decide a strategy to manage.

30-07-2016, 21:28	#10
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by Stereo Steve Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice. Yeah VO2 don't care about the south west. Voda works well here and in Bristol, but on M4 there are still patches of GPRS only. EE is at least 3G and 4G in most places now, and Three is similar. VO2 have a long way to go.

30-07-2016, 21:43	#11
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit Thank Goodness this was disallowed. I was having a chat with a source who shall rename unidentified. They said it was blocked due to BT's political lobbying! No, it was blocked because it was terrible for the consumer! Well said. Let's hope CK Hutch get a bloody nose from the ECJ as well.

30-07-2016, 22:38	#12
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Quote: Originally Posted by Stereo Steve Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice. Hmmm... I suppose you'll say the same thing in a few years when EE, already the biggest network for combined coverage goes to 99.9% 4G coverage and over 95% geographical coverage?

30-07-2016, 22:52	#13
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by Stereo Steve Enough competition already. The EU has done done what it does best. Left us with 2, hamstrung, shit networks. Consumers rejoice. I agree Three is hamstrung and a bit shit but o2 in fairness despite the financial problems does seem to be doing its best to get to its coverage obligation, They have big capacity issues but they're dealing with them in a reasonably good way for now.

30-07-2016, 22:55	#14
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	For the Three o2 merger I don't think it'd be good in the short-medium term competition wise. Those two networks would put themselves out of the game whilst they reshuffle management and merge two pretty dissimilar networks. Orange and T-Mobile were fairly alike technology wise and look how long that's taken. Long term I think they'd be ok but by the time they've got the aforementioned done where would the others be. Plus that's assuming there would be no conditions on the merger and that's not likely. If they have to sell spectrum or certain assets it'll take longer and put them in a worse off position in the long term. Plus it'll certainly mean an end to Three's general lower pricing structure and attempts to be innovative to get market share.

30-07-2016, 22:58	#15
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 Hmmm... I suppose you'll say the same thing in a few years when EE, already the biggest network for combined coverage goes to 99.9% 4G coverage and over 95% geographical coverage? I think Steve likes EE and Three, its the lack of change from VO2 he's concerned about.

31-07-2016, 03:44	#16
errea Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Not leaving the EU (quite yet) Posts: 300	You have a dog in the fight? Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Well said. Let's hope CK Hutch get a bloody nose from the ECJ as well.

31-07-2016, 06:09	#17
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 I agree Three is hamstrung and a bit shit but o2 in fairness despite the financial problems does seem to be doing its best to get to its coverage obligation, They have big capacity issues but they're dealing with them in a reasonably good way for now. I suspect O2 will struggle to meet its coverage obligation by the end of 2017. http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1937180

31-07-2016, 11:32	#18
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by errea You have a dog in the fight? I just dislike the arrogant attitude shown by CKH, they deserve to lose...

31-07-2016, 11:37	#19
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Really? We hadn't noticed.

31-07-2016, 12:17	#20
Stereo Steve Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,378	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 Hmmm... I suppose you'll say the same thing in a few years when EE, already the biggest network for combined coverage goes to 99.9% 4G coverage and over 95% geographical coverage? Not at all. It's just they will have no competition. 3 and O2 are not well placed to compete due to lack of spectrum and the only one who can, VOD, are refusing to bother, repeating their 3G failure and doing cities and motorways. Being able to roam between 3 and O2 would make quite a decent network. That is all.

31-07-2016, 13:36	#21
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Yes but then what do Vodafone do? They all have the ability to improve their networks. You say Vodafone aren't trying. It doesn't look like Three or O2 are trying either. A merger is a lazy way to enhance coverage without doing anything.

DS Forums

Hutchison takes legal action against EU over failed O2 & Three merger

31-07-2016, 13:51	#22
Pencil Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,252	The EU may be a German-led, over-paid, bloated, highly corrupt and anti-democratic bureaucracy, hell bent on continental domination, but on this occasion, they did the consumer a favour.

31-07-2016, 15:02	#23
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	In blocking a relatively small network and another network from merging to build a network with enough capacity for years to come who are able to compete effectively again the massive (2nd largest in the world) Vodafone and the giant (incumbent, former state) BT who is already massively dominant in multiple markets. Yeah, if course they did, thank goodness they blocked it otherwise consumers would have faced big price rises through ineffective competition. Oh wait... http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/new...odge-the-hikes http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2169399

31-07-2016, 15:07	#24
Tassium Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: It's Grim Posts: 24,412	The shape of things to come if that TTIP thing ever got implemented.

31-07-2016, 15:14	#25
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk In blocking a relatively small network and another network from merging to build a network with enough capacity for years to come who are able to compete effectively again the massive (2nd largest in the world) Vodafone and the giant (incumbent, former state) BT who is already massively dominant in multiple markets. Hutchison 3G and Telefonica UK (trading as O2) could have bought sufficient spectrum from Ofcom at the auction - at the time EE was nothing to do with BT. Vodafone and EE bought a lot of spectrum. Three prefer to complain but its their customers whom have poor experience. The Orange PAYG price rises don't surprise me, what does is that the EE PAYG are not rising as well - this makes me wonder if Orange (France) want more money in brand fees from BT Group ? Vodafone Group have just realised how much money they need to put into the UK network, more than the Group had realised, after previous execs like Chris Gent had run it into the ground.