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Hutchison takes legal action against EU over failed O2 & Three merger |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Quote:
To be honest, you banging the same drum over and over doesn't help either.
Yeah, you disagreed with the decision. You wanted better coverage and now you won't get it, so the EU is terrible and corruption must be the cause. Herp derp EU bad (insert verbatim statement from The Sun here). We get it. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Leicester
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It would've been cool if they merged though. You'd have the 4G and indoor coverage of O2 and the rural 3G coverage of Three. I guess I'll have to wait till EE's 800 is rolled out.
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#53 |
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Enjoy your price rises guys and the lack of 5G investment in the coming years as O2 doesn't have the money, Three doesn't have the money or the customer base to fund such big investment and now BT has swallowed EE they'll do what they've done with fixed broadband and be in no rush, especially without a big strong market or serious competition.
Then there's the problem of actually merging the two networks, it wasn't a massive problem for Orange and T-Mobile as only one was in a sharing agreement and they had complimentary spectrum. Though almost 4 years later, the merger still isn't finished and the network is not completely seamless. Look how many Orange masts there today and the problems they cause with roaming between PLMNs... This would be made even worse for O2 and Three as not only are they both in sharing agreements, they do not have complimentary spectrum so they would have to combine a network with no 2G and exclusive high band spectrum for the primary carriers with one with mainly low band spectrum for the primary carriers. They could, on the other hand, merge but leave both networks as is and set up roaming between the two but that would quickly become an absolute mess and we have no idea where that would leave them when it comes to 5G. |
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#54 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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The plan was to straddle MBNL and Cornerstone, all those technical solutions can be found. On their own Three and O2 can'it find economic solutions that will allow them to win against BT or Vodafone in the long run. BT can just subsidise mobile which is a competition concern, they and Voda have the whole fibre and dark fibre sewn up.
I'm not going to go around in circles but we'll see over the coming years what happens. Come back to the thread in 5 years (I've been here for years already) and we'll see. |
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#55 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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How do you know o2 can't compete? They are investing in 4g and who knows what they will buy in future auctions?
Same for three really. Surly it will just keep investing and look for a buyer if it wants out. I guess all depends what the strategy of three is - which isnt clear. Also no way was access to Cornerstone and MBNL going to be allowed or agreed to by either EE or VF. So that blows that idea out the water. |
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#56 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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If a company makes bad decisions it deserves to go bust. Holding the consumer to ransom by merging is a retarded solution.
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#57 |
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Virgin Media / Liberty will be looking at O2 then it'll really be cable and broadband and the mobile industry as we know it will be virually gone.
Let's come back in 5 years I suspect yours and other people's view will change when we see what happens next. |
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#58 |
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If a company makes bad decisions it deserves to go bust. Holding the consumer to ransom by merging is a retarded solution.
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#59 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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You are.a bitter lot, I can't be doing with this silly attitude of people's personal gripes clouding their judgement when it comes to a sensible competition discussion.
Wanting a company to go bust because you didn't like something they did is childish and stupid especially when trying to discuss the wider competition implications.. |
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#60 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Realistically, the company wouldn't just disappear and everyone get laid off. Another company would step in. Of course, with any merger there would be redundancies.
I think it's fair to say that had Three acquired O2, lots of staff would be looking for new jobs both internally and in retail. Where was the concern about the inevitable cuts had it gone through? T-Mobile and Orange shed loads of staff. |
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#61 |
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TBH I've not read anyone say they want any company to go bust, just it should happen if a company is poorly managed and the consumer shouldnt effectively be punished to prop up bad management.
Oh and I'm not a three customer, never have been apart from the PAYG sim, so no axe to grind here. As an o2 customer if I'm selfish I could say I'd win from any deal, but I prefer to look after the interests of the market as a whole and everyone else, rather than some selfish view point. |
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#62 |
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Join Date: Jan 2002
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The plan was to straddle MBNL and Cornerstone, all those technical solutions can be found. ...
It's not something that I think any regulator could have accepted, nor is it something the other partners - EE/BT or Vodafone - would have accepted either. |
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#63 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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I can imagine that existing sites could have remained, but going forward it would have been Three and O2 on their own.
Obviously Three is pretty much on its own for 4G anyway, so O2 probably stood to lose out more than Three. |
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#64 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 102
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Quote:
You are.a bitter lot, I can't be doing with this silly attitude of people's personal gripes clouding their judgement when it comes to a sensible competition discussion.
Wanting a company to go bust because you didn't like something they did is childish and stupid especially when trying to discuss the wider competition implications..
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#65 |
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Though good luck finding a solution to the inherently anti-competitive outcome of an operator with a foot in each of the two infrastructure sharing camps.
It's not something that I think any regulator could have accepted, nor is it something the other partners - EE/BT or Vodafone - would have accepted either. Enjoy a market dominated by BT and Vodafone, you'll see what that means in 5 years time. I'll put a note to come back and see if views have changed, I'm strongly of the opinion that it'll set us back in the long run. |
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#66 |
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It may be a market that VF or EE dominate, but that will be based on investment and merit, not on the consumer being punished.
However whilst there are 4 networks we have competition, so prices will remain lower and investment will continue. Afterall, if one or even both of those take their eye off the ball, you could find that O2 or even Three could start to have an impact on their customer base and profitability. The market is in a much better place today. The only bad move was putting Orange and T Mobile together, as I think we all got to see the real benefits of 5 players in the market, it was fantastic for the consumer price wise. |
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#67 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Totnes, Devon
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EE nearly finished the L1800 base layer which when power is up on it's own will provide amazing UK coverage. L2600 being deployed where needed and L800 shortly about to be launched as a last resort layer to catch anyone falling off L1800.
Coverage will be nothing short of mind blowing UK wide. How the hell are we going to be set back? |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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EE nearly finished the L1800 base layer which when power is up on it's own will provide amazing UK coverage. L2600 being deployed where needed and L800 shortly about to be launched as a last resort layer to catch anyone falling off L1800.
Coverage will be nothing short of mind blowing UK wide. How the hell are we going to be set back? EE are WAY out in front. VOD are still living in 1978. O2 and 3 are trying but just don't have the stuff to do it. Meanwhile BT and VOD own all the fibre. From a regulation point of view, fair it is not. Good for the consumer it is not. Yes, they have all screwed up apart from EE. But the point of regulators is to maintain a fair playing field. I don't care. I'm going with EE and will just pay for it. I assume it will be awesome. O2 and 3 don't have a hope of getting close this decade and VOD don't seem to be bothering. Oh well. |
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#69 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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The plan was to straddle MBNL and Cornerstone, all those technical solutions can be found.
Incredibly messy. It's like a mobile version of Brexit Quote:
On their own Three and O2 can'it find economic solutions that will allow them to win against BT or Vodafone in the long run. BT can just subsidise mobile which is a competition concern, they and Voda have the whole fibre and dark fibre sewn up.
As for dark fibre, the proposed changes to Openreach could well assist there. |
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#70 |
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Last time I checked o2 and VF had fairly good coverage of most of the UK and better than EE in buildings. So I wouldn't think everyone is being forced on to one network.
Ok that's 2g coverage, but the phone still rings and EE had an head start on o2/VF. Give them until the end of this year as this is about the same time in the phase that people were working about the EE roll out. I suspect end of the year / next you will see 3 good networks for calls and data. As for three, it has access to the same sites as EE - just needs to get a move on and invest - if it does then it could compete with EE. Mobile networks still vary in areas and user need. I don't think EE can just gobble up everyone as like in areas like mine, they are shocking. That will be the same in other parts of the UK. Also your MVNOs will help to offer cheaper access to the same network coverage, should you wish to be on a specific network. Competition is good for the consumer. |
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#71 |
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Meanwhile BT and VOD own all the fibre.
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#72 |
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CityFibre for one would disagree. Other telcos do exist - but many use BT for the remote locations anyway - hence the wholesale arguments/Openreach etc.
This whole debate comes down to "investment". Most organisations = Investment Three = Don't Invest |
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#73 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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CityFibre for one would disagree. Other telcos do exist - but many use BT for the remote locations anyway - hence the wholesale arguments/Openreach etc.
It's also no longer realistic to argue on the basis of superior 2G coverage. We know VO2 wins there even if they have done nothing to that network since 1854. They just have a frequency advantage, soon to be blown apart. We keep talking about this interconnected world which Britain will lead with cutting edge communicaitons. Meanwhile millions sit on sub 2Mb ADSL while a BT fibre cable runs not 100m from their front door and only 1 of the 4 networks can actually now boast a decent country wide 2/3/4G network. It's crap to be honest. |
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#74 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Woore, Cheshire/Shropshire
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Three are exactly where they deserve to be, the merger was a total none starter soon as anyone with an grain of sense looked at it, they'd maybe have had more luck trying to buy EE from DT, and BT buying O2. three would have had a state of the art network and BT could have used its access to openreach to help roll out those much needed rural mast upgrades which judging by the Vodafone predicted coverage map are getting scaled back more each week, maybe due to an unwillingness to use BT fibre for its networks..
Also three may not be swimming in spectrum like Vodafone & EE, but it's not that bad off compared to O2, it's just they've chosen to do bugger all with it! 15x1800mhz & 5x800mhz 4g plus there chunk of 2100mhz 3g should give them good speeds for a few years yet, plus aren't they due to get given some other 1400mhz spectrum? If they'd been arsed roll it out they could have had 1800mhz on most masts by now, along with a Base layer of 800mhz and God forbid been inventive like O2 had been, and refarmed some of there 3g spectrum to support 4g in highload areas. I don't think things would have been that bad. As for competition.. At the present time, things are OK, but give it a few years and I'm not so sure.. Forgetting the historic reputation BT has on future investment for a second, presently and from what I can see to be the medium term, if you want truly mobile data communications, EE is and will be your only real option weather it be for speed or reliability, cornerstone are years away from this point at present rollout speeds and that's even before you take into account that they are hamstrung keeping 4g on lower power due to no adequate call fallback. Plus many 4g speeds are now sub 3g speeds. That leaves EE fairly unrestrained when it comes to the cost of plans and the ratio of data you get for your bucks.. 12 months ago I had a unlimited plan which cost me around £20 with three, I now have a 20gb plan with Vodafone costing me £30, in order to actually be able to use some data when I need to I'm looking at EE who only do 15gb max sim only for roughly the same cost.. I think we'll see these data Costs rise and rise over the next few years. |
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#75 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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You just said.
At the present time, things are OK, Then you said. if you want truly mobile data communications, EE is and will be your only real option weather it be for speed or reliability, cornerstone are years away from this point at present rollout speeds and that's even before you take into account that they are hamstrung keeping 4g on lower power due to no adequate call fallback. Plus many 4g speeds are now sub 3g speeds If that is OK then I guess that is OK. We'll just pay whatever EE asks because EE are the only ones who have a workable network. I'm going with them in a min,once I've seen the iPhone 7/8/SSE/ CND. Everything else is CRAP. Massive victory for the regulators. We have NO choice. LOLZ. |
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