Hutchison takes legal action against EU over failed O2 & Three merger

Thine Wonk · 02-08-2016, 18:43

Quote:

Agree with you on the most complained about, that was shocking of them. They were so bad that they were the only ones above the average, everyone else came below the average.

Just asking if you've got a breakdown of the DCR rates in the cities, sounds interesting?

It was featured on the Root Metrics reports for example if you click on the places on the map it tells you things like (Leicester) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 2.7% to 1.4%." (Liverpool) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 1.4% to 0.2%, but Vodafone’s rate of dropped calls increased from 0.1% to 0.7%." (Leeds and Bradford) "O2’s rate of blocked calls increased from 0.8% to 2.2%."

They used to let you see full reports where some places were showing as 8% at one stage. Generally Three scrores surprisingly well for calls in a lot of the reports and they do test indoor locations as well as outdoor.

http://rootmetrics.com/en-GB/rootscore/map

As I say, they used to be more detailed but now you only see it if they make a bulletpoint about it.

d123 · 02-08-2016, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Data coverage I meant to post, I see you're still being rude and disrespectful.

You really shouldn't make personal insults, I'd hate to report you for a personal attack when I haven't directed any personal comments your way today...

Quote:

[
Three was 75% as of March.

Dated June 30, 2016

Quote:

Three now has over 63% UK population coverage with 4G. Towns and cities with partial or full coverage include: Aberdeen, Birmingham, Blackpool, Bolton, Bournemouth, Bradford, Brighton, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Cheltenham, Coventry, Derby, Dundee, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Glasgow, Gloucester, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, London, Luton, Manchester, Milton Keynes, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northampton, Norwich, Nottingham, Oxford, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Preston, Sheffield, Southampton, Southend On Sea, Stoke On Trent, Swindon, Watford and York.

http://www.4g.co.uk/three-4g-network-summary/

Dated June 30, 2016

Quote:

Vodafone currently has over 85% UK 4G population coverage across 848 larger towns, cities and districts, as well as thousands of smaller communities

http://www.4g.co.uk/vodafone-4g-network-summary/

lightspeed2398 · 02-08-2016, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

It was featured on the Root Metrics reports for example if you click on the places on the map it tells you things like (Leicester) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 2.7% to 1.4%." (Liverpool) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 1.4% to 0.2%, but Vodafone’s rate of dropped calls increased from 0.1% to 0.7%."

They used to let you see full reports where some places were showing as 8% at one stage. Generally Three scrores surprisingly well for calls in a lot of the reports and they do test indoor locations as well as outdoor.

http://rootmetrics.com/en-GB/rootscore/map

As I say, they used to be more detailed but now you only see it if they make a bulletpoint about it.

Ah thanks, I never went that far back on RM to see the historical DCRs. Doesn't surprise me though.

Free in Paris I think had a 25% DCR on one of RMs tests last year but they're a new network not one that's been around since 1641 so they may have some leeway.

Looking at Vodafone nationally in March 14 they had a DCR of 0.97 which was still way above the other networks and not good at all. Think it's at 0.7 now which is still very high considering the project spring target was 0.5%. Significantly higher than every other major VF network in Europe which were all at about 0.45% I think.

Thine Wonk · 02-08-2016, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

You really shouldn't make personal insults, I'd hate to report you for a personal attack when I haven't directed any personal comments your way today...

Dated June 30, 2016

http://www.4g.co.uk/three-4g-network-summary/

Dated June 30, 2016

http://www.4g.co.uk/vodafone-4g-network-summary/

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/netw...ata-use-188203

jonmorris · 02-08-2016, 19:23

If Vodafone is going to switch off 3G in 2020 then that means all the 900 and 2100MHz spectrum is going to be refarmed. With less restrictions on coverage then, assuming VoLTE is widespread, it's going to be substantially different to today.

Chances are it will have been able to deal with local issues (planning, access for new fibre) so if the money is there, it should happen.

Thine Wonk · 02-08-2016, 19:36

Vodafone is switching off 3G in just 4 years? Really? I missed that one

d123 · 02-08-2016, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/netw...ata-use-188203

Link to where it's said on Three's website/press release..

Otherwise it's just one journo vs another...

Thine Wonk · 02-08-2016, 19:51

4g.co.uk isn't Three you know?

It' supervoice which is at 65% which only runs off the 800Mhz spectrum only, not 4G as a whole which started rollout much areas. There's plenty of 1800Mhz only areas, this is where the 65% is wrong as that's not the total 4G coverage percentage.

http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Feat...4g-super-voice

Quote:

We’re currently rolling 4G Super-Voice out across the UK. The good news is that we’re already over half way - at 65% - with most major cities covered, including Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and London.

clewsy · 02-08-2016, 21:48

But root metrics used to be always seen as biased towards EE - not sure if this is still the case.

These stats we never know all the facts of how they are conducted to know how accurate and representative they are?

jonmorris · 02-08-2016, 22:07

I actually don't think EE has had to do anything dodgy with using RootMetrics. There's a lot more data than others because EE doesn't use up your data, so I imagine all staff are encouraged to run the app - getting a lot more data points.

The only 'fiddle' might be that rather than take the average figures, EE may well request the highest (peak) figures and that will definitely work in its favour - especially now the data cap has been lifted to 150Mbps.

Vodafone has no limit at all, but many areas still can't get high speeds even without a cap and with carrier aggregation. But once the backhaul is fully upgraded and sites have 800, 1800, 2100 and 2600, I expect Vodafone will offer some killer speeds in places - and EE will likely have to remove the cap completely.

Denco1 · 02-08-2016, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

4g.co.uk isn't Three you know?

It' supervoice which is at 65% which only runs off the 800Mhz spectrum only, not 4G as a whole which started rollout much areas. There's plenty of 1800Mhz only areas, this is where the 65% is wrong as that's not the total 4G coverage percentage.

http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Feat...4g-super-voice

Three quote two figures on the 4G supervoice page

Quote:

We started the roll out in September 2015 in major cities, reaching 55% indoor coverage of the UK population at launch. We're now up to 65% UK population coverage with the roll out continuing throughout 2016.

Quote:

The rollout of 4G Super-Voice is well underway. We already reached 75% of the UK population, which is great news to our customers who were experiencing indoor coverage issues. In 2016 we are continuing the rollout to more places in the UK.

Not sure whether the 75% is just a typo.

I don't think Three state the 1800MHz coverage, but it will be much less than what they claim supervoice is. There won't be many, if any 1800MHz areas which aren't also claimed to be covered by supervoice now.

Everything Goes · 02-08-2016, 23:47

Hutchison chairman Li Ka-shing has already said they will scale back UK investments due to Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7092891.html

d123 · 03-08-2016, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

4g.co.uk isn't Three you know?

Neither is techweekeurope.co.uk, you know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denco1

I don't think Three state the 1800MHz coverage, but it will be much less than what they claim supervoice is. There won't be many, if any 1800MHz areas which aren't also claimed to be covered by supervoice now.

Agreed, Three seem to suggest Supervoice coverage exists in every spot where someone on three stopped and wondered why they couldn't make a call

. It's madly over ambitious on the coverage map.

jonmorris · 03-08-2016, 00:41

Can they adjust things so a phone will switch to 4G 800 quicker instead of clinging on to an unusable 3G signal?

Even in the middle of a forest where I got 4G 800, it kept switching to 3G and back. The 3G was unusable and I couldn't make a call either.

Thine Wonk · 03-08-2016, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

But root metrics used to be always seen as biased towards EE - not sure if this is still the case.

These stats we never know all the facts of how they are conducted to know how accurate and representative they are?

How can metrics be biased? They are a third party company who just drives and walks phones around doing tests as per the published methodology.

Are you suggesting they are a bunch of cheats and liars?

Thine Wonk · 03-08-2016, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Hutchison chairman Li Ka-shing has already said they will scale back UK investments due to Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7092891.html

The problem is the London based very pro EU media rang around everywhere asking questions like "would you consider scaling down investment if the UK left the EU".

Whether they actually will or not remains to be seen, as it happens the EU has done it for them.

clewsy · 03-08-2016, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

How can metrics be biased? They are a third party company who just drives and walks phones around doing tests as per the published methodology.

Are you suggesting they are a bunch of cheats and liars?

Easy, most organisations have a bais, especially because data collection isn't cheap.

We don't know much about them or how they conduct these so called tests. Like I've said before of you did it in my town then o2/VF would be top and three and Ee bottom with loads of dropped calls. Selected location can really impact on the outcome.

clewsy · 03-08-2016, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Hutchison chairman Li Ka-shing has already said they will scale back UK investments due to Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7092891.html

Lol getting the excuses in now.

moox · 03-08-2016, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Dated June 30, 2016

http://www.4g.co.uk/three-4g-network-summary/

I don't know why the network operators insist on using cities as a way of saying how big their coverage is.

I can get 3 4G now, and I don't live anywhere near any of the cities on that list (Plymouth is closest, but none of the places in my county appear on the list even though there quite clearly is coverage)

plymouthbloke1974 · 03-08-2016, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

The only 'fiddle' might be that rather than take the average figures, EE may well request the highest (peak) figures and that will definitely work in its favour - especially now the data cap has been lifted to 150Mbps.

I think the cap has been lifted to 200Mbps. I have seen an EE speedtest at 194Mbps.

moox · 03-08-2016, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by de525ma

Not really - they occupy a similar position to most of those running the privatised national infrastructure in other sectors. Most of which disadvantage the consumer.

Not relevant to my argument.

BT, through its position of owning poles and ducts that run to basically everywhere in the UK, is in a very different position to other ISPs or dark fibre operators.

Only the electricity companies can get close to that, if any of them wanted to run a telecoms network (some of them do own dark fibre - e.g. Surf Telecoms in the WPD service area)

moox · 03-08-2016, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Ok BT had an advantage but they still had to invest into he fibre.

They did it because they had to - they needed a nationwide fibre network to connect all those whizzy new telephone switches (1980s) together. Paid for by revenues generated from its monopoly, as there wasn't a serious competitor to BT until the 90s (and for most people who did not live in a cabled area, there wasn't a competitor who didn't use BT's PSTN at all until the mid 2000s)

jonmorris · 03-08-2016, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

I think the cap has been lifted to 200Mbps. I have seen an EE speedtest at 194Mbps.

Ooh, will have to go and check this out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Lol getting the excuses in now.

I think Three was told it had to be more careful with its money, perhaps suggesting cuts, a while ago - back when there were big changes in staff and the decision made to increase charges, kick people off old plans, do U-turns on things like no mid-contract price rises.

Brexit gives a lot of companies a good excuse, sure, and I think that Three would be suffering a reduction of investment regardless. I think a lot of changes were made in preparation for buying O2. Now that happens, I can't help but wonder what's going to happen.

On a positive note, Three can't just let itself fall apart if there was ever a hope that Three could one day be sold off should the big boss decide to call it a day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

How can metrics be biased? They are a third party company who just drives and walks phones around doing tests as per the published methodology.

Are you suggesting they are a bunch of cheats and liars?

Looking at the results of the crowd sourced data in places I know well, I'd say the data looks pretty fair.

What I would say is that I know that Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City now has speeds approaching 80-90Mbps on Three following relatively recent upgrade work. Root Metrics isn't reflecting that, so I intend to run the app and see if this will boost the 'max speed' results.

I would say that a lot of data points are probably my own!

lightspeed2398 · 03-08-2016, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

The only 'fiddle' might be that rather than take the average figures, EE may well request the highest (peak) figures and that will definitely work in its favour - especially now the data cap has been lifted to 150Mbps.

As plymouthbloke says 150 is no more.

_m · 03-08-2016, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Can they adjust things so a phone will switch to 4G 800 quicker instead of clinging on to an unusable 3G signal?

Even in the middle of a forest where I got 4G 800, it kept switching to 3G and back. The 3G was unusable and I couldn't make a call either.

It can be done (and can be done area by area) though with their current site density for LTE, I doubt it'll happen any time soon in most places. Though saying that, I get fringe 3G here which is usually just good enough to connect a call but on my iPhone it stays on L08 and never touches the 3G so they may have tweaked the selection settings in this area as it's fairly dense for Three LTE compared to most other places.

02-08-2016, 18:43	#101
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by lightspeed2398 Agree with you on the most complained about, that was shocking of them. They were so bad that they were the only ones above the average, everyone else came below the average. Just asking if you've got a breakdown of the DCR rates in the cities, sounds interesting? It was featured on the Root Metrics reports for example if you click on the places on the map it tells you things like (Leicester) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 2.7% to 1.4%." (Liverpool) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 1.4% to 0.2%, but Vodafone’s rate of dropped calls increased from 0.1% to 0.7%." (Leeds and Bradford) "O2’s rate of blocked calls increased from 0.8% to 2.2%." They used to let you see full reports where some places were showing as 8% at one stage. Generally Three scrores surprisingly well for calls in a lot of the reports and they do test indoor locations as well as outdoor. http://rootmetrics.com/en-GB/rootscore/map As I say, they used to be more detailed but now you only see it if they make a bulletpoint about it.

02-08-2016, 18:49	#102
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk Data coverage I meant to post, I see you're still being rude and disrespectful. You really shouldn't make personal insults, I'd hate to report you for a personal attack when I haven't directed any personal comments your way today... Quote: [ Three was 75% as of March. Dated June 30, 2016 Quote: Three now has over 63% UK population coverage with 4G. Towns and cities with partial or full coverage include: Aberdeen, Birmingham, Blackpool, Bolton, Bournemouth, Bradford, Brighton, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Cheltenham, Coventry, Derby, Dundee, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Glasgow, Gloucester, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, London, Luton, Manchester, Milton Keynes, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northampton, Norwich, Nottingham, Oxford, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Preston, Sheffield, Southampton, Southend On Sea, Stoke On Trent, Swindon, Watford and York. http://www.4g.co.uk/three-4g-network-summary/ Dated June 30, 2016 Quote: Vodafone currently has over 85% UK 4G population coverage across 848 larger towns, cities and districts, as well as thousands of smaller communities http://www.4g.co.uk/vodafone-4g-network-summary/

02-08-2016, 18:49	#103
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk It was featured on the Root Metrics reports for example if you click on the places on the map it tells you things like (Leicester) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 2.7% to 1.4%." (Liverpool) "Vodafone’s rate of blocked calls improved from 1.4% to 0.2%, but Vodafone’s rate of dropped calls increased from 0.1% to 0.7%." They used to let you see full reports where some places were showing as 8% at one stage. Generally Three scrores surprisingly well for calls in a lot of the reports and they do test indoor locations as well as outdoor. http://rootmetrics.com/en-GB/rootscore/map As I say, they used to be more detailed but now you only see it if they make a bulletpoint about it. Ah thanks, I never went that far back on RM to see the historical DCRs. Doesn't surprise me though. Free in Paris I think had a 25% DCR on one of RMs tests last year but they're a new network not one that's been around since 1641 so they may have some leeway. Looking at Vodafone nationally in March 14 they had a DCR of 0.97 which was still way above the other networks and not good at all. Think it's at 0.7 now which is still very high considering the project spring target was 0.5%. Significantly higher than every other major VF network in Europe which were all at about 0.45% I think.

02-08-2016, 18:54	#104
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 You really shouldn't make personal insults, I'd hate to report you for a personal attack when I haven't directed any personal comments your way today... Dated June 30, 2016 http://www.4g.co.uk/three-4g-network-summary/ Dated June 30, 2016 http://www.4g.co.uk/vodafone-4g-network-summary/ http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/netw...ata-use-188203

02-08-2016, 19:23	#105
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	If Vodafone is going to switch off 3G in 2020 then that means all the 900 and 2100MHz spectrum is going to be refarmed. With less restrictions on coverage then, assuming VoLTE is widespread, it's going to be substantially different to today. Chances are it will have been able to deal with local issues (planning, access for new fibre) so if the money is there, it should happen.

02-08-2016, 19:36	#106
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Vodafone is switching off 3G in just 4 years? Really? I missed that one

02-08-2016, 19:46	#107
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/netw...ata-use-188203 Link to where it's said on Three's website/press release.. Otherwise it's just one journo vs another...

02-08-2016, 19:51	#108
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	4g.co.uk isn't Three you know? It' supervoice which is at 65% which only runs off the 800Mhz spectrum only, not 4G as a whole which started rollout much areas. There's plenty of 1800Mhz only areas, this is where the 65% is wrong as that's not the total 4G coverage percentage. http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Feat...4g-super-voice Quote: We’re currently rolling 4G Super-Voice out across the UK. The good news is that we’re already over half way - at 65% - with most major cities covered, including Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and London.

02-08-2016, 21:48	#109
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	But root metrics used to be always seen as biased towards EE - not sure if this is still the case. These stats we never know all the facts of how they are conducted to know how accurate and representative they are?

02-08-2016, 22:07	#110
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	I actually don't think EE has had to do anything dodgy with using RootMetrics. There's a lot more data than others because EE doesn't use up your data, so I imagine all staff are encouraged to run the app - getting a lot more data points. The only 'fiddle' might be that rather than take the average figures, EE may well request the highest (peak) figures and that will definitely work in its favour - especially now the data cap has been lifted to 150Mbps. Vodafone has no limit at all, but many areas still can't get high speeds even without a cap and with carrier aggregation. But once the backhaul is fully upgraded and sites have 800, 1800, 2100 and 2600, I expect Vodafone will offer some killer speeds in places - and EE will likely have to remove the cap completely.

02-08-2016, 23:17	#111
Denco1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 983	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk 4g.co.uk isn't Three you know? It' supervoice which is at 65% which only runs off the 800Mhz spectrum only, not 4G as a whole which started rollout much areas. There's plenty of 1800Mhz only areas, this is where the 65% is wrong as that's not the total 4G coverage percentage. http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Feat...4g-super-voice Three quote two figures on the 4G supervoice page Quote: We started the roll out in September 2015 in major cities, reaching 55% indoor coverage of the UK population at launch. We're now up to 65% UK population coverage with the roll out continuing throughout 2016. Quote: The rollout of 4G Super-Voice is well underway. We already reached 75% of the UK population, which is great news to our customers who were experiencing indoor coverage issues. In 2016 we are continuing the rollout to more places in the UK. Not sure whether the 75% is just a typo. I don't think Three state the 1800MHz coverage, but it will be much less than what they claim supervoice is. There won't be many, if any 1800MHz areas which aren't also claimed to be covered by supervoice now.

02-08-2016, 23:47	#112
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Hutchison chairman Li Ka-shing has already said they will scale back UK investments due to Brexit. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7092891.html

03-08-2016, 00:14	#113
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk 4g.co.uk isn't Three you know? Neither is techweekeurope.co.uk, you know? Quote: Originally Posted by Denco1 I don't think Three state the 1800MHz coverage, but it will be much less than what they claim supervoice is. There won't be many, if any 1800MHz areas which aren't also claimed to be covered by supervoice now. Agreed, Three seem to suggest Supervoice coverage exists in every spot where someone on three stopped and wondered why they couldn't make a call . It's madly over ambitious on the coverage map.

03-08-2016, 00:41	#114
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Can they adjust things so a phone will switch to 4G 800 quicker instead of clinging on to an unusable 3G signal? Even in the middle of a forest where I got 4G 800, it kept switching to 3G and back. The 3G was unusable and I couldn't make a call either.

03-08-2016, 06:57	#115
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy But root metrics used to be always seen as biased towards EE - not sure if this is still the case. These stats we never know all the facts of how they are conducted to know how accurate and representative they are? How can metrics be biased? They are a third party company who just drives and walks phones around doing tests as per the published methodology. Are you suggesting they are a bunch of cheats and liars?

03-08-2016, 07:00	#116
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Hutchison chairman Li Ka-shing has already said they will scale back UK investments due to Brexit. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7092891.html The problem is the London based very pro EU media rang around everywhere asking questions like "would you consider scaling down investment if the UK left the EU". Whether they actually will or not remains to be seen, as it happens the EU has done it for them.

03-08-2016, 07:46	#117
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk How can metrics be biased? They are a third party company who just drives and walks phones around doing tests as per the published methodology. Are you suggesting they are a bunch of cheats and liars? Easy, most organisations have a bais, especially because data collection isn't cheap. We don't know much about them or how they conduct these so called tests. Like I've said before of you did it in my town then o2/VF would be top and three and Ee bottom with loads of dropped calls. Selected location can really impact on the outcome.

03-08-2016, 07:47	#118
clewsy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midlands Posts: 2,860	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Hutchison chairman Li Ka-shing has already said they will scale back UK investments due to Brexit. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7092891.html Lol getting the excuses in now.

03-08-2016, 09:22	#119
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Dated June 30, 2016 http://www.4g.co.uk/three-4g-network-summary/ I don't know why the network operators insist on using cities as a way of saying how big their coverage is. I can get 3 4G now, and I don't live anywhere near any of the cities on that list (Plymouth is closest, but none of the places in my county appear on the list even though there quite clearly is coverage)

03-08-2016, 09:24	#120
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris The only 'fiddle' might be that rather than take the average figures, EE may well request the highest (peak) figures and that will definitely work in its favour - especially now the data cap has been lifted to 150Mbps. I think the cap has been lifted to 200Mbps. I have seen an EE speedtest at 194Mbps.

03-08-2016, 09:25	#121
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by de525ma Not really - they occupy a similar position to most of those running the privatised national infrastructure in other sectors. Most of which disadvantage the consumer. Not relevant to my argument. BT, through its position of owning poles and ducts that run to basically everywhere in the UK, is in a very different position to other ISPs or dark fibre operators. Only the electricity companies can get close to that, if any of them wanted to run a telecoms network (some of them do own dark fibre - e.g. Surf Telecoms in the WPD service area)

DS Forums

Hutchison takes legal action against EU over failed O2 & Three merger

03-08-2016, 09:28	#122
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Ok BT had an advantage but they still had to invest into he fibre. They did it because they had to - they needed a nationwide fibre network to connect all those whizzy new telephone switches (1980s) together. Paid for by revenues generated from its monopoly, as there wasn't a serious competitor to BT until the 90s (and for most people who did not live in a cabled area, there wasn't a competitor who didn't use BT's PSTN at all until the mid 2000s)

03-08-2016, 11:08	#123
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 I think the cap has been lifted to 200Mbps. I have seen an EE speedtest at 194Mbps. Ooh, will have to go and check this out! Quote: Originally Posted by clewsy Lol getting the excuses in now. I think Three was told it had to be more careful with its money, perhaps suggesting cuts, a while ago - back when there were big changes in staff and the decision made to increase charges, kick people off old plans, do U-turns on things like no mid-contract price rises. Brexit gives a lot of companies a good excuse, sure, and I think that Three would be suffering a reduction of investment regardless. I think a lot of changes were made in preparation for buying O2. Now that happens, I can't help but wonder what's going to happen. On a positive note, Three can't just let itself fall apart if there was ever a hope that Three could one day be sold off should the big boss decide to call it a day. Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk How can metrics be biased? They are a third party company who just drives and walks phones around doing tests as per the published methodology. Are you suggesting they are a bunch of cheats and liars? Looking at the results of the crowd sourced data in places I know well, I'd say the data looks pretty fair. What I would say is that I know that Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City now has speeds approaching 80-90Mbps on Three following relatively recent upgrade work. Root Metrics isn't reflecting that, so I intend to run the app and see if this will boost the 'max speed' results. I would say that a lot of data points are probably my own!

03-08-2016, 12:49	#124
lightspeed2398 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 1,325	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris The only 'fiddle' might be that rather than take the average figures, EE may well request the highest (peak) figures and that will definitely work in its favour - especially now the data cap has been lifted to 150Mbps. As plymouthbloke says 150 is no more.

03-08-2016, 14:19	#125
_m Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 152	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Can they adjust things so a phone will switch to 4G 800 quicker instead of clinging on to an unusable 3G signal? Even in the middle of a forest where I got 4G 800, it kept switching to 3G and back. The 3G was unusable and I couldn't make a call either. It can be done (and can be done area by area) though with their current site density for LTE, I doubt it'll happen any time soon in most places. Though saying that, I get fringe 3G here which is usually just good enough to connect a call but on my iPhone it stays on L08 and never touches the 3G so they may have tweaked the selection settings in this area as it's fairly dense for Three LTE compared to most other places.